Some questions

[Limetka]

Hello i wanted to ask what is:

1. PowerSaver C0%
2. C state and PKG Undemotion and Demotion

Thanks

 

[unclewebb]

PowerSaver C0%

What CPU model do you have? This was a somewhat useful feature for Core 2 Duo processors from about 15 years ago. If your CPU supports the C10 C state, you do not need to be using the old and obsolete PowerSaver feature.

The Package Demotion and Undemotion stuff slightly changes how much load it will take for a CPU core to transition between one C state and another. I think having all of the Undemotion options checked helps improve the C state percentages which in theory might help battery run time when you are running on battery power. With most modern CPUs, these adjustments, whether they are checked or not checked, seems to make very little difference.

Some users claim mouse lag or lag in games that might be related to these settings. You will have to experiment to see if you notice anything good or bad.

 

[Limetka]

What CPU model do you have? This was a somewhat useful feature for Core 2 Duo processors from about 15 years ago. If your CPU supports the C10 C state, you do not need to be using the old and obsolete PowerSaver feature.

The Package Demotion and Undemotion stuff slightly changes how much load it will take for a CPU core to transition between one C state and another. I think having all of the Undemotion options checked helps improve the C state percentages which in theory might help battery run time when you are running on battery power. With most modern CPUs, these adjustments, whether they are checked or not checked, seems to make very little difference.

Some users claim mouse lag or lag in games that might be related to these settings. You will have to experiment to see if you notice anything good or bad.

Hello and thanks for replying, I use an i7-9750H

 

[unclewebb]

9750H

The 9750H should have Speed Shift Technology enabled. The PowerSaver function in ThrottleStop does not apply to modern CPUs.

 

[MatrixQW]

I have a desktop CPU I5-4690K and it doesn't have Speed Shift.
Does this mean PowerSaver C0% applies to this CPU ?
It shows default 35. Should I set it to 0 or leave it at 35 ?
Also, in throttlestop.ini has HaswellOverclock=15. What is this for?

 

[unclewebb]

PowerSaver C0%

I prefer to run my computers at full speed even when they are idle. I never had a reason to use the PowerSaver feature so I just leave that at the default value. The best way to reduce power consumption of your CPU or for any Core i CPU is to just enable the C states in the BIOS.

How do you want to run your computer? Do you want max speed all of the time or do you want to save power? What C states are enabled? Do you like to see your computer limping along at a low speed when it is lightly loaded? A slow computer is old school. There is no reason to do this when the C states are enabled.

HaswellOverclock=15

That INI entry saves the state of the Overclock box in the FIVR window.

Profile 1 Overclock checked = 1
Profile 2 Overclock checked = 2
Profile 3 Overclock checked = 4
Profile 4 Overclock checked = 8

If the Overclock box is checked in all profiles then HaswellOverclock=15 (1 + 2 + 4 + 8)

I added that to ThrottleStop when the 4th Gen Haswell processors were released. The latest 14th Gen CPUs continue to use this feature. I did not bother renaming it. This probably still works correctly on the 285K but I have not done any hands on testing of one of them. There is no need for anyone to edit this value in the INI file.

 

[MatrixQW]

I use High Performance power plan 24/7.
In BIOS I have Core C-States C3/C6/C7 enabled with C1E disabled and Package C-States only C0/C1 enabled.

I never had a reason to use the PowerSaver feature so I just leave that at the default value.

I run my computer like you, I don't want to use it.
Is the default 35 only used with Balanced power plan?
Should I set it to 0 to fully disable this feature?

Regarding C-States, I found that C1E and C1/C3 Demotion/Undemotion (explicitly C1 Demotion) causes the CPU frequency to have small drops constantly.
I have mine overclocked at 44 MHz and it varies from 40 to 43.9 with any small load.
This also happens at stock turbo 3.9, it's not an OC issue.
I would think this happens across all Intel CPUs.

I can disable C1E in BIOS but I have no options for Demotion/Undemotion.
With these disabled it's a solid 44. Your app allowed me to fix this !
Now, if Demotion is disabled there is nothing to Undemote so I disabled everything. Is this correct or makes sense?

EDIT: This got a bit weird. I noticed now that C3 shows 0% if I disable Demotion.
Would this mean that if I disable C1 Demotion it wouldn't enter C1 ? Is that even possible?
I ran Windows Performance Monitor for C1/C2/C3 and the numbers don't make sense.
TS shows C3 usage but Windows show C3 at 0%. It shows high C2 % instead.

 

[unclewebb]

I don't want to use it.

Then don't use it. Leave it as is. When Set Multiplier is not checked, the PowerSaver percent setting is not used.

Is this correct

Set the demotion and undemotion options however you like. A user once told me that certain settings could cause lag when gaming. The amount of difference is not huge when these are enabled or disabled.

I ran Windows Performance Monitor for C1/C2/C3 and the numbers don't make sense.

ThrottleStop samples C state activity directly from the CPU. I trust that ThrottleStop is reporting this correctly.

I am not quite sure what Windows is reporting. All I know is that you cannot compare ThrottleStop C state activity to what Windows is reporting. They are measuring two different things.

 

[MatrixQW]

OK thank you for clarifying my questions.

C3 gets alot of usage scrolling this page with mouse wheel for example.
If I disable C3 Demotion in TS, it never enters this state. Is this expected ?
Seems like the % that should be in C3 goes/adds to C7 from what I observed.
I'm worried that disabling C1 Demotion would result in something alike and I can't see C1 %, but I need it disabled so the CPU Hz stays stable.

 

[unclewebb]

Is this expected ?

I do not own a similar CPU so I cannot do any testing for you to compare to. How the C states work and how the demotion and undemotion options change the C state percentages can vary from one CPU generation to the next. They can also vary depending on what drivers and what apps you have running in the background on your computer.

I can't see C1 %, but I need it disabled

There is rarely ever a reason why you would need to disable C1.

If you want stable idle MHz, go into the BIOS and disable the C states. Disable C3, C6 and C7. Problem solved.

You should also be able to disable the C States in ThrottleStop. Check the C States AC box, choose the Off radio button and press the Apply button. This will disable the C states in whatever Windows power plan you are presently using. Do the opposite to re-enable the C states. Check the C States AC box, choose the On radio button and press the Apply button.

The difference in power consumption one way or the other is minimal. Disabling the C states reduces latency. That is a good thing.

 

[MatrixQW]

There is rarely ever a reason why you would need to disable C1.

I meant disable C1 Demotion, not C1 state.

The difference in power consumption one way or the other is minimal.

Not minimal, OFF = 30W and ON = 8W.

Disabling the C states reduces latency. That is a good thing.

This is true.

Thanks for all the help.