Upgrade to 5900X

[Mussels]

OP said they have a 3090FE. It's the exact canditdate for a top-tier gaming CPU.

Clarity - too many times people will take a comment on page 2 of a forum and ignore context and things get derailed.

Even with a custom water 3090, i'm still managing to GPU limit myself with a 5800x at 4.6GHz.

 

[lexluthermiester]

What do ya'll think? I know the 3700X holds me back some, but probably not much.

It shouldn't be holding you back at all. A 3700X is an excellent gaming CPU. If you want to upgrade for gaming, don't go with more cores, go with better performance. Others have suggested and shown that the 5800X3D is the way to go and I'm going to echo that, but ONLY if the game you're into needs more CPU power(and that's a short list). Otherwise get a 4K 120hz display and call it a day for 18months.

 

[Mussels]

It shouldn't be holding you back at all. A 3700X is an excellent gaming CPU. If you want to upgrade for gaming, don't go with more cores, go with better performance. Others have suggested and shown that the 5800X3D is the way to go and I'm going to echo that, but ONLY if the game you're into needs more CPU power(and that's a short list). Otherwise get a 4K 120hz display and call it a day for 18months.

3700x isn't good for high FPS gaming, you hit a ceiling around 120FPS

Even at 4K, i'm sitting in the 120-200 range on this 3090, depending on the scene/settings

 

[lexluthermiester]

3700x isn't good for high FPS gaming, you hit a ceiling around 120FPS

Um, I have not seen this. But then again, it's not been a problem for most of the customers I serve.

 

[Mussels]

Um, I have not seen this. But then again, it's not been a problem for most of the customers I serve.

It shows up in every game review, and every thread where users have upgraded from zen 2 to zen 3.
Every game is a little different, but most DX12 titles sit around that 120FPS threshold


Heres some examples from the 5700x review, since it's recent

Not every game behaves the same, but the gaming performance gap between Zen 2 and Zen 3 is huge

 

[lexluthermiester]

Not every game behaves the same

I was about to say that. I've seen 1700X's and 2700X's get 300+fps. It just depends on the game and the display.

 

[Mussels]

I was about to say that. I've seen 1700X's and 2700X's get 300+fps. It just depends on the game and the display.

Yeah, but i've seen far too many games even on my GTX1080 that couldnt make use of my 165Hz displays, that could with a zen 3 CPU.

I did say DX12 titles, specifically

 

[SpittinFax]

Hopefully the 5900X price drops when Zen 4 does. It actually went up by AU$30 recently which kind of dulled my interest in upgrading.

 

[DebenPoison]

I mean based on the recent leaks of 7600X and 7700X performance, this may totally be the way to go.

I'm sitting on the fence for the next month to see what prices do either way but I must say, Zen 4 is very tempting based on what we're seeing. Couple that with DDR5 ; yeah its a bit more $$ but may be the way to go. I don't anticipate purchasing RTX 4 series card so I may as well pair my 3090 with a newer CPU and DDR5.

Edit: Interesting to see so many prefer the 5800X3D over the 5900X ; from what I had seen the performance increase vs 5900X is limited to a select few games and granted, it does kick some ass, but the additional cores could come in useful if I ever decided to throw a few VMs on the machine. It'll be telling to see how the 7600X goes up against the 5800X3D in gaming performance, as I say I'm primarily a gamer.

Thank you for all the helpful comments and information thus far!

 

[Chrispy_]

I mean based on the recent leaks of 7600X and 7700X performance, this may totally be the way to go.

I'm sitting on the fence for the next month to see what prices do either way but I must say, Zen 4 is very tempting based on what we're seeing. Couple that with DDR5 ; yeah its a bit more $$ but may be the way to go. I don't anticipate purchasing RTX 4 series card so I may as well pair my 3090 with a newer CPU and DDR5.

Edit: Interesting to see so many prefer the 5800X3D over the 5900X ; from what I had seen the performance increase vs 5900X is limited to a select few games and granted, it does kick some ass, but the additional cores could come in useful if I ever decided to throw a few VMs on the machine. It'll be telling to see how the 7600X goes up against the 5800X3D in gaming performance, as I say I'm primarily a gamer.

Thank you for all the helpful comments and information thus far!

The games certainly don't need the cores, they need the cache and the peak boost speeds. I have a regular 5800X and I won't be changing it until at least the Zen4 with 3DvCache arrive, which is probably at least a year away.

If you're after VMs, it's probably worth buying an used server with a 2P Xeon or older EPYC. I've run VMs at home for work during COVID lockdown (swapped out to a 3900X and 128GB of slow-ass DDR4-2133) but you can pick up used tower 2P servers like an HP Proliant Gen8 for a few hundred bucks. Load it up with some cheap used ECC DDR4 if it doesn't already come with plenty, add some new M.2 storage and throw it into a utility cupboard or the attic. A couple of older Xeons with 6 or 8 cores each and 8 memory channels between them will be great for VMs and you don't have to compromise your gaming machine to mess around with HyperV or VMware.

 

[Mussels]

Hopefully the 5900X price drops when Zen 4 does. It actually went up by AU$30 recently which kind of dulled my interest in upgrading.

You're in luck, prices are all over the place - stores with low stock are raising prices, those with stock are lowering them

this is from priceme.com.au that i have never used before today

 

[SpittinFax]

You're in luck, prices are all over the place - stores with low stock are raising prices, those with stock are lowering them

this is from priceme.com.au that i have never used before today

View attachment 261440

Prices in the low/mid ranges are very good right now. I saw the 5700X has dropped to AU$369 everywhere right now and it's very tempting. Sure it's not a 5900X but the efficiency and thermal performance of that 8 core chip is hard to ignore.

 

[DebenPoison]

I picked up a 5900X on eBay as “opened box” condition for $375 CAD , that’s about $290 USD. I’ll sell my 3700X for at least $150 CAD, so I think it was a great deal. Eagerly awaiting my upgrade!!

 

[kapone32]

I picked up a 5900X on eBay as “opened box” condition for $375 CAD , that’s about $290 USD. I’ll sell my 3700X for at least $150 CAD, so I think it was a great deal. Eagerly awaiting my upgrade!!

The first thing you are going to notice is how snappy and solid your PC is going to feel. If you have proper cooling the chip will happily boost to 4.9 to 5.1 GHZ on 1 or 2 cores. Of all the AM4 CPUs I have owned the 5900X felt the "sturdiest" for lack of a better word. Everything you do with a 5900X or higher will feel that way but the 5900X does it using less power than the 5950X. I also have found that the 5900X has the best Memory Controller but that is subjectively vs what else I have used on the platform.

 

[DebenPoison]

The first thing you are going to notice is how snappy and solid your PC is going to feel. If you have proper cooling the chip will happily boost to 4.9 to 5.1 GHZ on 1 or 2 cores. Of all the AM4 CPUs I have owned the 5900X felt the "sturdiest" for lack of a better word. Everything you do with a 5900X or higher will feel that way but the 5900X does it using less power than the 5950X. I also have found that the 5900X has the best Memory Controller but that is subjectively vs what else I have used on the platform.

I've installed 5900X today and yeah it definitely feels snappier, and I see this funny enough directly in Windows 11 Search via Indexing. When I searched previously with my 3700X there was this delay in finding the application which I could never quite figure out why (Windows 10 I didn't have this issue). Immediately with the 5900X this issue simply disappeared.

So far so good, I enabled PBO and see the following:

I did have another voltage PBO related setting enabled previously, I may play more with PBO.

 

[SpittinFax]

How does the 5900X do when you undervolt it to reduce temps? Not gonna lie, I'm a big fan of low temps and low power consumption (which is why I like the RX6600) while still having great performance. So my two options are: 1) Go with the 5700X, or 2) the 5900X with a big undervolt. But it looks like I would need to dial it back quite a lot to match the 5600X in thermals. So that might rule out the 5900X as the best option.

Thermals might seem like a non-issue but Australian summers are no joke. That heatwave that the UK declared a national emergency is normal t-shirt weather around here. Which is why I don't like my PC kicking out heat where avoidable.

Still, the 5700X looks like a great chip. Those eight cores are very efficient.

 

[1234chgm]

5800x3D good

 

[tabascosauz]

How does the 5900X do when you undervolt it to reduce temps? Not gonna lie, I'm a big fan of low temps and low power consumption (which is why I like the RX6600) while still having great performance. So my two options are: 1) Go with the 5700X, or 2) the 5900X with a big undervolt. But it looks like I would need to dial it back quite a lot to match the 5600X in thermals. So that might rule out the 5900X as the best option.

Thermals might seem like a non-issue but Australian summers are no joke. That heatwave that the UK declared a national emergency is normal t-shirt weather around here. Which is why I don't like my PC kicking out heat where avoidable.

Still, the 5700X looks like a great chip. Those eight cores are very efficient.

I have never associated Curve Optimizer undervolting with a reduction in temperatures on my Zen 3 CPUs. Maybe if your cooler is *really* low on the performance chart, but not even on the likes of L12S, L9x65 and Big Shuriken 3 would I say there was a real thermal benefit to just using CO. I run -2/5/30/10/20/15/20/20/20/20/20/20 on my 5900X, and either all-core -10 or -15 on my 5700G.

At one point I determined that on mine, stock all-core performance at 142W is roughly equivalent to undervolt all-core at 130W. So if that's what you're after (reducing power in conjunction with CO to achieve iso-performance), I suppose you could undervolt to run a few degrees cooler (about 6.5C of difference for me, that 12W reduction), but at the same power limit then there will be no temp improvement as it will run clocks higher.

At 142W and a 21-25C ambient on water I maxed out in the upper 60s, maybe hitting low 70s once in a while.
Same conditions on the NH-C14S, number of games will regularly get me into the high 70s and occasionally 80s; Cinebench about 70C, non-AVX all-core about 78C, and Linpack/TM5 easily 80C+.

There aren't really any magical tricks to Zen 3 thermals. The 5600/5600X/5700X run cool because they run a lower 76W PPT limit now. Push the PPT hard, bring up the ST boost ceiling and there's not much difference. Unfortunately the 2CCD parts don't go so low on power, IOD power is higher and CPU will want to draw up to 100W even just in lighter games.

 

[R0H1T]

which is probably at least a year away.

Or 6 months if RPL takes the gaming crown even if only for a short while, AMD most likely won't take long this time because zen5 is expected to be launched 1H of 2024 IIRC.

Or who knows even slightly earlier ~

 

[Chrispy_]

Or 6 months if RPL takes the gaming crown even if only for a short while, AMD most likely won't take long this time because zen5 is expected to be launched 1H of 2024 IIRC.

Or who knows even slightly earlier ~

I don't think Raptor Lake will have any impact on AMD's roadmap. The Zen4 X3D variants are already in production and take months to roll through the fabs. They'll launch when they're finished cooking and if Intel can't compete that just means AMD can sell them for a higher price

 

[SpittinFax]

I have never associated Curve Optimizer undervolting with a reduction in temperatures on my Zen 3 CPUs. Maybe if your cooler is *really* low on the performance chart, but not even on the likes of L12S, L9x65 and Big Shuriken 3 would I say there was a real thermal benefit to just using CO. I run -2/5/30/10/20/15/20/20/20/20/20/20 on my 5900X, and either all-core -10 or -15 on my 5700G.

At one point I determined that on mine, stock all-core performance at 142W is roughly equivalent to undervolt all-core at 130W. So if that's what you're after (reducing power in conjunction with CO to achieve iso-performance), I suppose you could undervolt to run a few degrees cooler (about 6.5C of difference for me, that 12W reduction), but at the same power limit then there will be no temp improvement as it will run clocks higher.

At 142W and a 21-25C ambient on water I maxed out in the upper 60s, maybe hitting low 70s once in a while.
Same conditions on the NH-C14S, number of games will regularly get me into the high 70s and occasionally 80s; Cinebench about 70C, non-AVX all-core about 78C, and Linpack/TM5 easily 80C+.

There aren't really any magical tricks to Zen 3 thermals. The 5600/5600X/5700X run cool because they run a lower 76W PPT limit now. Push the PPT hard, bring up the ST boost ceiling and there's not much difference. Unfortunately the 2CCD parts don't go so low on power, IOD power is higher and CPU will want to draw up to 100W even just in lighter games.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I did notice something similar with my 5600X where running most cores at a -30 offset didn't really change temperatures much. It still reaches 70 degrees on a big cooler (DRP4), so a 5900X would most likely be creeping over 80 degrees. It explains why many 5900X owners are on water cooling. 12 cores is awesome but ultimately I'm wary of jumping onto a processor that might not be to my liking in terms of power and thermals. It might be a safer choice to overclock an 8 core if I want more multicore performance, rather than starting with a 12 core and underclocking it.

 

[kapone32]

Thanks for the info. Yeah I did notice something similar with my 5600X where running most cores at a -30 offset didn't really change temperatures much. It still reaches 70 degrees on a big cooler (DRP4), so a 5900X would most likely be creeping over 80 degrees. It explains why many 5900X owners are on water cooling. 12 cores is awesome but ultimately I'm wary of jumping onto a processor that might not be to my liking in terms of power and thermals. It might be a safer choice to overclock an 8 core if I want more multicore performance, rather than starting with a 12 core and underclocking it.

Actually the 5900X is not that bad. All of the AM4 cpu performance is affected by the Agesa updates and BIOS settings as well. Your performance is entirely based on the cooling potential. As an example the 5950X has a base clock of 3.4 GHZ but will go to 4.9 with a 280MM AIO and 5.2 with a 360MM AIO. I will say though that even a decent air cooler/240mm AIO with a proper ventilated case will probably give you 4.9 GHZ with the 5900X. The 5600X is not a good example as it has a 65-75 Watt power limit but the 5800X is actually the hottest AM4 CPU so the 5700X but that is not in the same league as the 5900X either in terms of raw performance while producing the same amount of heat. The 5900X pulls about 105-125 Watts max but the fact that it has 2 CCM allows the heat to be mitigated better. As far as undervolting this is my thought. AM3 CPUs were great for UV/OC especially the 8000 series but when AM4 launched AMD took over the OC of the chip. I tried an all core OC and got to 4.7 GHZ all cores but the CPU would idle at 50 C. The other thing is right now as I am typing my CPU is at .7 GHZ @ 1.1 Volts using 12W of power so we are good. In fact unless I am making a video, Gaming with CPU intensive Games or Tasks I do not see my CPU pull over 50 Watts so AMD is actually great at making sure your CPU runs cool. Even some AM4 MBs do not like any user limited voltages so be aware of that too.

 

[Chrispy_]

Thanks for the info. Yeah I did notice something similar with my 5600X where running most cores at a -30 offset didn't really change temperatures much. It still reaches 70 degrees on a big cooler (DRP4), so a 5900X would most likely be creeping over 80 degrees. It explains why many 5900X owners are on water cooling. 12 cores is awesome but ultimately I'm wary of jumping onto a processor that might not be to my liking in terms of power and thermals. It might be a safer choice to overclock an 8 core if I want more multicore performance, rather than starting with a 12 core and underclocking it.

Efficiency falls off a cliff at higher clocks, in other words a CPU will use twice the power to run 20% faster.

If you want multicore performance without silly power consumption, buy more cores and tell them they can only have 142W. You can absolutely run a 5950X with a 120mm air cooler and get great performance, it's just that you won't get 4.4GHz all-core at the base TDP of 105W (142W boost)

I have a bunch of 5950X rendering nodes that are cooled with dual-fan NH-U9S 92mm coolers and they render animation frames in VRay at 3.5GHz or so all day without breaking a sweat. Just because you can run them at 280W with insane cooling to get another 900MHz doesn't mean you have to. Modern CPUs and boards let you choose how much power you want to use, and a 5950X is remarkably impressive in eco-mode (65W) and will probably still get close to a 5900X drawing 4x the power.

 

[freeagent]

The less power you allow, the lower your GFlop output will be

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks for the info. Yeah I did notice something similar with my 5600X where running most cores at a -30 offset didn't really change temperatures much. It still reaches 70 degrees on a big cooler (DRP4), so a 5900X would most likely be creeping over 80 degrees. It explains why many 5900X owners are on water cooling. 12 cores is awesome but ultimately I'm wary of jumping onto a processor that might not be to my liking in terms of power and thermals. It might be a safer choice to overclock an 8 core if I want more multicore performance, rather than starting with a 12 core and underclocking it.

Dark Rock Pro 4? You'll be fine. C14S is a step down from DRP4, was like 2-5C hotter on my 3700X, and I've been running fine all this time. U9S should still be okay even, maybe at the edge at 142W in hotter workloads.

At stock, a 5900X in MT behaves similarly to a 3700X stock. Just with higher and more unpredictable ST spikes from higher ST boost. 4950 is the ST cap out of the box, if you're lucky PBO can take you up to 5150 but that's strictly dependent on your CPU sample. Have seen 5900X that max out at 5150 out multiple cores, have seen 5900X that struggle to reach 4900.

L12S and lower is where the 5900X starts to fall apart (without a cool ambient and case airflow that is overwhelmingly geared towards helping it out).

Better multicore always comes from having more cores, OCing a 5800X to beat a 5900X or a OC 5900X to beat a 5950X is extremely tough and pointless. The 5700X may look efficient with its 76W PPT but once you start pushing it there will be little difference to the 5800X. Get the single CCD parts over 100W and you start to feel the heat.

Actually the 5900X is not that bad. All of the AM4 cpu performance is affected by the Agesa updates and BIOS settings as well. Your performance is entirely based on the cooling potential. As an example the 5950X has a base clock of 3.4 GHZ but will go to 4.9 with a 280MM AIO and 5.2 with a 360MM AIO. I will say though that even a decent air cooler/240mm AIO with a proper ventilated case will probably give you 4.9 GHZ with the 5900X. The 5600X is not a good example as it has a 65-75 Watt power limit but the 5800X is actually the hottest AM4 CPU so the 5700X but that is not in the same league as the 5900X either in terms of raw performance while producing the same amount of heat. The 5900X pulls about 105-125 Watts max but the fact that it has 2 CCM allows the heat to be mitigated better. As far as undervolting this is my thought. AM3 CPUs were great for UV/OC especially the 8000 series but when AM4 launched AMD took over the OC of the chip. I tried an all core OC and got to 4.7 GHZ all cores but the CPU would idle at 50 C. The other thing is right now as I am typing my CPU is at .7 GHZ @ 1.1 Volts using 12W of power so we are good. In fact unless I am making a video, Gaming with CPU intensive Games or Tasks I do not see my CPU pull over 50 Watts so AMD is actually great at making sure your CPU runs cool. Even some AM4 MBs do not like any user limited voltages so be aware of that too.

I'm not sure what sorts of "intensive" games you play where the 5900X always draws less than 50W, seems a little exaggerated. With a 2060 Super and 3070 Ti I've never seen less than 50W package power in any game. 50W is honestly pretty ambitious for demanding games even on a single-CCD (3700X) or APU (5700G).

~60W is about the norm for the lightest games, most settle around 90-100W, an increasing number of games will regularly run up to the 125-142W area. DCS, MW2019, BFV, just off the top of my head......