NVIDIA AD103 and AD104 Chips Powering RTX 4080 Series Detailed

[evernessince]

Y the flying f* do you care about the manufactor profit?? How can it be a factor at all?
If the product suit your needs and in your budget frame and it's the best price\preformance in it's segments then get it.
Simple as that.

As I pointed out in my last comment, it let's you know how much value you are getting relative to the entire stack or market at large.

If there is a large difference between SKUs die size wise (and by extension manufacturer cost) that would indicate to the customer that Nvidia is likely to release products to fill that gap or AMD will do it for them. In addition, comparing the die size of the 3080 and 4080 shows you that you are getting less than half the die area. Even accounting for inflation and the cost increases of smaller nodes, it does not even come close to making a die less than 300mm2 in size worth $900 USD, especially when you compare it to last gen products.

I think just about any customer would be mad to know they are getting much less relative to the 4090 compared to the prior GPU generation while also being charged $200 more.

Your criteria for what product to buy is simply far too naive. You advise customers to just blindly buy without considering factors that could net then massive savings or a better end product.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 Kepler 2 GB Review

Today NVIDIA released their new GeForce GTX 680 which is based on the company's brand-new Kepler architecture. The card comes with massively improved performance per Watt. It also introduces an automatic dynamic overclocking method which gives the card the leading edge, making it the fastest...

www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 4 GB Review

Today, NVIDIA releases their new GeForce GTX 980, which brings the Maxwell architecture to the high-end. It features massive power efficiency improvements and reduced noise, but also beats the GTX 780 Ti in raw performance. Pricing is quite acceptable, too, with an MSRP of $549.

www.techpowerup.com

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB Review

NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 1080 was announced recently. Today, we have the first review! Performance is incredible, doubling GTX 970 performance levels. Efficiency is also sky high, nearly doubling everything we've seen from NVIDIA's Maxwell architecture. Our GTX 1080 review compares 10 cards in 16...

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NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Founders Edition 8 GB Review

It was very bold of NVIDIA to debut its flagship implementation of the Turing architecture right next to the RTX 2080, poised to be the poster-boy of this architecture. This card packs the promise of real-time ray tracing, of sorts. NVIDIA also put out its best cooler design since TITAN. All...

www.techpowerup.com

The only post-Fermi x80s NOT based on a 104 were the 780 and 3080.

Hey we all get shit wrong sometimes.

 

[ModEl4]

It is closest to TSMC's 10 nm; TSMC's 12 nm is 16 nm with different standard cells.

It's definitely closest to N10 (N10 has zero frequency benefit vs N16 but double the logic density)
Samsung's 8LPP has similar frequency potential as N10 but even better density (around +17%)
16nm GP104 has 7.2b transistors at 314mm² while GA104 has 17.4b transistors at 392mm² (1.9X more dense not in logic only but on overall design)

---------------------------------

New info regarding Ada Lovelace features

"DLSS 3 combines Super Resolution, Frame Generation, and NVIDIA Reflex!"

 

[ARF]

JHH is not ok. Someone should tell him that he completely lost his mind with this ridiculous new pricing scheme.
This is something that had never been seen before.

Compare AL to AMP:

chip | die size | pricing
AD102 608mm^2 1600
AD103 379mm^2 1200
AD104 295mm^2 900

GA102 628mm^2 2000
GA102 628mm^2 1500
GA102 628mm^2 1200
GA102 628mm^2 700
GA104 392mm^2 600
GA104 392mm^2 500
GA104 392mm^2 400
GA106 276mm^2 330
GA106 276mm^2 250
GA107 200mm^2 200

JHH literally priced something that should cost around 350 max 2.6 times higher up to 900!!

 

[jaszy]

Wuuuut? GTX 1080 begs to differ... or GTX 980... or the 680, or...

The new kid on the block here is the fact there is a 103-SKU in between the 102 and 104. And even the 102 is a spin off from Titan's 110.

The fact is we're looking at the exact opposite situation: they can't place a 104 that high in the stack anymore. They need TWO bigger SKUs to cater to their top end of the stack, and 104 is upper midrange but at best - it no longer 'stands in as early high end'. It used to only get succeeded by a 102 later in gen, now they have to place it at the front of the gen to make even a tiny bit of impact compared to the last. ADA's current positioning is the best example: they're not even removing the 3xxx cards below it; we're looking at ONLY 102 dies from gen to gen populating half their new stack for a while. These are all signs Nvidia's running into new territory wrt their wiggle room: we're paying their wiggle room now on the Geforce stack; the 102/103 SKUs are simply new tiers also in terms of price, and they need every single piece of it to survive against the competition.

Back in the HD-days, they could make do with a 104 and then destroy AMD with a 102 either cut down or full later on. Which they have been doing up until they started pushing RT. Ever since, the changes happened, prices soared and VRAM magically went poof. The price of RT... again... We still laughing about this fantastic tech?

Agree. Don't forget EE/cooler design is also WAY more expensive now too. Nvidia was screwing people for years, People are clearly memory holed or just new to the scene.

Like I said in previous post, 4080 12GB IS overpriced, but its only like $200 give or take from some of the older x80 G104 cards with full enabled dies (Adjusted inflation).

The only problem I can see from here is how the future 4070/4060 will be priced. Those won't scale as linearly with inflation metrics... Not that the 4080 12GB does, but theres compensation on card "upgrades" and EE requirements at least.

My assumption? RTX30 die cost/Samsung 8 was insanely cheap. Nvidia priced and positioned it to be a saving grace to how horrible RTX20 was for general rasterization improvement from Pascal.

Turing had HUGE dies and Nvidia ate so much well deserved crap because RTX/DLSS was essentially vaporware. Generational gains were also weak relative to 10/9 series. Of course most logical people skipped it.

 

[Selaya]

The x90 cards are really Titans in all but name. Whether they are called Titan or 4090 is a marketing decision that now has a habit of changing without notice.

It's not wise to compare NVIDIA's graphics card generations by comparing model numbers since they aren't consistent with what each model number represents. It's really just a numerical slot relative to a given card's placement within that generation's product stack.

Clearly NVIDIA's current strategy is to use binning to maximize gross margin. They're not going to sell Joe Gamer an $800 graphics card with a GPU that can be overclocked +30%. Those days are over. They're going to keep those binned chips, relabel them, and sell them at a higher price like $1200.

the biggest problem i see here is that, previously the x80ti was basically a x90/titan w/ half the memory (same/very similar core count/config); this'd be the first time where we wouldn't have this option - we either swallow it and buy the x90 or stick w/ a gpu half as powerful, basically.
and the 4080's not cheap either

 

[Prima.Vera]

Serious question.
Why didn't nGreedia used the proper naming convention for their GPUs, such as:
AD102 = RTX 4080 (NOT RTX 4090)
AD103 = RTX 4070 (NOT RTX 4080 16 GB)
AD104 = RTX 4060 (NOT RTX 4080 12 GB)

To be honest those could also be the Ti variants, comparing to previous iterations, or just some bump up specs.
Their naming convention is totally retarded and BS tbh.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Because they are greedy? You lot get upset every single friggin launch.

TIME TO ACCEPT THEY ARE GREEDY, buy AMD, as far as multi-billion corps that just want your cash go, they are your only choice.

Sad times, but hey ho.

 

[cvaldes]

the biggest problem i see here is that, previously the x80ti was basically a x90/titan w/ half the memory (same/very similar core count/config); this'd be the first time where we wouldn't have this option - we either swallow it and buy the x90 or stick w/ a gpu half as powerful, basically.
and the 4080's not cheap either

We didn't have that option with the Ampere generation when it debuted.

Remember, both 3090 and 3080 10G were announced September 1, 2020. 3080 Ti was announced on May 31, 2021. For nine months, there was 3090 or 3080 10G and nothing in between. The 3080 12G didn't arrive until January of this year.

Will there be a 4080 Ti at some point? Probably. Looking at the numbers of cores (CUDA, RT, Tensor) and pricing in the three Ada Lovelace cards announced, it appears that NVIDIA can slot in offerings around these three (above, in between, below).

NVIDIA did not release the entire Ampere lineup at the same time. People will have more choices if they choose to be patient whether it be additional NVIDIA 40 series models or whatever AMD releases. And like NVIDIA, AMD did not release the entire RNDA2 lineup at the same time.

 

[Tek-Check]

Unfortunately, Nvidia has disappointed in connectivity department with 4000 series cards. They do not offer DisplayPort 2.0 on cards that cost up to $1600. Completely silly and unacceptable.
They will be the last GPU to offer this port in...2024 on 5000 series, unless Nvidia consumers send them a clear message of disapproval and demand this upgrade on Ti cards.

Intel's A380, the lowest tier card, has DP 2.0 port at 40 Gbps.

 

[jaszy]

Because they are greedy? You lot get upset every single friggin launch.

TIME TO ACCEPT THEY ARE GREEDY, buy AMD, as far as multi-billion corps that just want your cash go, they are your only choice.

Sad times, but hey ho.

Yes buy AMD.. They literally jacked the MSRP of both the 6700XT and 6600XT around $100 USD prior to launch due to mining demand.

Today you can grab a 6700XT for $350 with promo code +rebate off Newegg... lol. Both are scum.

 

[Selaya]

We didn't have that option with the Ampere generation when it debuted.

Remember, both 3090 and 3080 10G were announced September 1, 2020. 3080 Ti was announced on May 31, 2021. For nine months, there was 3090 or 3080 10G and nothing in between. The 3080 12G didn't arrive until January of this year.

Will there be a 4080 Ti at some point? Probably. Looking at the numbers of cores (CUDA, RT, Tensor) and pricing in the three Ada Lovelace cards announced, it appears that NVIDIA can slot in offerings around these three (above, in between, below).

NVIDIA did not release the entire Ampere lineup at the same time. People will have more choices if they choose to be patient whether it be additional NVIDIA 40 series models or whatever AMD releases. And like NVIDIA, AMD did not release the entire RNDA2 lineup at the same time.

i'll count the 3080-10gb as just that, for all intents and purposes (neither 1080ti nor 2080ti had the full memory bus enabled anyways) since it's close enough anyways. the different 12gb flavors of the 3080 were just nv's attempt to milk a market that bought any- and everything they release.

but my point is: the 3080 had a core count and thus performance similar to the 3090, as the 2080ti & the titan rtx, et cetera.

 

[cvaldes]

i'll count the 3080-10gb as just that, for all intents and purposes (neither 1080ti nor 2080ti had the full memory bus enabled anyways) since it's close enough anyways. the different 12gb flavors of the 3080 were just nv's attempt to milk a market that bought any- and everything they release.

but my point is: the 3080 had a core count and thus performance similar to the 3090, as the 2080ti & the titan rtx, et cetera.

I own the 3080 Ti. I bought it because it's very near to the 3090 in all specs apart from VRAM. I didn't want to pay the premium for the extra 12GB of graphics memory.

In any case, it isn't worth comparing different generations of NVIDIA cards strictly by model number since they change how they think about them. It's really just a way to rank the various models within the product stack of a given generation.

Especially with Ada Lovelace generation, NVIDIA was motivated to change the numbering system yet again to make sure the Ada 4080 has performance above the Ampere 30 Series cards that they will continue selling alongside the new releases in order to draw down channel inventory.

 

[Tomorrow]

Unfortunately, Nvidia has disappointed in connectivity department with 4000 series cards. They do not offer DisplayPort 2.0 on cards that cost up to $1600. Completely silly and unacceptable.
They will be the last GPU to offer this port in...2024 on 5000 series, unless Nvidia consumers send them a clear message of disapproval and demand this upgrade on Ti cards.

Intel's A380, the lowest tier card, has DP 2.0 port at 40 Gbps.

Well actually Intel has it's own problems with HDMI 2.1 on their cards. So i seems everyone has their own shortcomings. Perhaps AMD's 7000 series will offer full support for both HDMI 2.1 and DP 2.0.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

No competition? What do you mean by that? RDNA2 matched or beat 30 series in raster, FSR 2.0 has great reviews, and most certainly RDNA3 will compete, and because AMD's chiplet approach should be cheaper to manufacture, RDNA3 should offer better performance per dollar....but despite all of that, everyone will buy Nvidia and reward their behavior and perpetuate Nvidia's constant price increases in perpetuity.

Let's be honest everyone, AMD could release a GPU that matched Nvidia in every way including raytracing, and have FSR equal to DLSS in every way and charge less than Nvidia for it, and everyone would STILL buy Nvidia (which only proves consumer choices are quite irrational and are NOT decided by simply comparing specs, as the existence of fanboys should testify to...)...and as long as that's true, the GPU market will ALWAYS be hostile to consumers. The ONLY way things are going to improve for consumers is if AMD starts capturing marketshare and Nvidia is punished by consumers... but based on historical precedent, I have no hope for that...

And I don't believe Intel's presence would have improved the situation much, not as much as a wholly new company in the GPU space would have, because Intel would have leveraged success in the GPU market (which would have probably been carved away from AMD's limited marketshare instead of Nvidia's and would have resulted in Nvidia's marketshare remaining at 80% and AMD's 20% being divided between AMD and Intel) to further marginalize AMD in the x86 space (for example, by using influence with OEMs to have an Intel CPU matched with an Intel GPU and further diminish AMDs position among OEMs, which is how Intel devastated AMD in the 2000s BTW), and it would have been trading a marginally better GPU market for a much worse CPU market, imo. Although it'd never happen, what would be really improve the market would be if Nvidia got broken up like AT&T did in the 80s...

So what's your point? If AMD was in NVidia's place, they would be pulling the same horseshit. Yes, I'll still buy NVidia's graphics cards because we can't iray render with an AMD GPU. Of course, if I was only gaming, then it would be a different story.

 

[Athlonite]

 

[Tek-Check]

Well actually Intel has it's own problems with HDMI 2.1 on their cards. So i seems everyone has their own shortcomings. Perhaps AMD's 7000 series will offer full support for both HDMI 2.1 and DP 2.0.

I am not aware of HDMI 2.1 issues of Arc. Could you, please, elaborate a bit and share the problems identified? Much appreciated.

 

[Tomorrow]

I am not aware of HDMI 2.1 issues of Arc. Could you, please, elaborate a bit and share the problems identified? Much appreciated.

Intel Arc GPUs don't natively support HDMI 2.1

Intel's openness about its GPU's capabilities is certainly refreshing.

www.pcgamer.com

So if i read this correct it affects the 3 series that AIB's need to have an extra conversion chip included. The 5 and 7 series per Ryan Shrout natively include this and thus should be 2.1 compliant. Just seems like an odd omission even on budget cards. HDMI 2.1 is not exactly new and AMD's 6400 card even supports it.

 

[beedoo]

Fine products at very fair prices... just buy them!

 

[regs]

So, the fin width is 6 nm on a TSMC 10FF process?

Fin top point doesn't mean anything. Look density and gate pitch. Density is a little higher than TSMC 10FF, but falls into same generations.
And Samsung 8N is a part of 10N series. It's 10N+++ speaking plain former Intel language.

 

[Tek-Check]

Intel Arc GPUs don't natively support HDMI 2.1

Intel's openness about its GPU's capabilities is certainly refreshing.

www.pcgamer.com

So if i read this correct it affects the 3 series that AIB's need to have an extra conversion chip included. The 5 and 7 series per Ryan Shrout natively include this and thus should be 2.1 compliant. Just seems like an odd omission even on budget cards. HDMI 2.1 is not exactly new and AMD's 6400 card even supports it.

Thank you for this. I really appreciate it.
Wow! I cannot believe that Intel waited for so long to tell us that only A750 and A770 Limited Edition cards have PCON converter chip on PCB for HDMI 2.1 FRL signal (unclear if 24Gbps?, 32 Gbps?, 40 Gbps? or 48 Gbps?), and all other cards are HDMI 2.0 with 18 Gbps speed.

This is what happens when HDMI Administrator publishes their decision to rebrand 2.0=2.1. And companies sell us a total mess...

 

[regs]

No competition? What do you mean by that? RDNA2 matched or beat 30 series in raster, FSR 2.0 has great reviews, and most certainly RDNA3 will compete, and because AMD's chiplet approach should be cheaper to manufacture, RDNA3 should offer better performance per dollar....but despite all of that, everyone will buy Nvidia and reward their behavior and perpetuate Nvidia's constant price increases in perpetuity.

AD103 and AD104 are not 30 series. They are RTX 40 series. RDNA3 is not even here. So when released we will see. And Nvidia will see. May be they will rename them back to 4070 and 4060. May be. At least RDNA3 might offer quite a leap in midrange - double ALU and higher clocks.

Let's be honest everyone, AMD could release a GPU that matched Nvidia in every way including raytracing, and have FSR equal to DLSS in every way and charge less than Nvidia for it, and everyone would STILL buy Nvidia (which only proves consumer choices are quite irrational and are NOT decided by simply comparing specs, as the existence of fanboys should testify to...)...and as long as that's true, the GPU market will ALWAYS be hostile to consumers. The ONLY way things are going to improve for consumers is if AMD starts capturing marketshare and Nvidia is punished by consumers... but based on historical precedent, I have no hope for that...

FSR 2.0 is a huge step over FSR 1.0, which was absolutely useless, but still DLSS is quite ahead, not only in picture quality, but also in performance, thank to dedicated blocks.

Thank you for this. I really appreciate it.
Wow! I cannot believe that Intel waited for so long to tell us that only A750 and A770 Limited Edition cards have PCON converter chip on PCB for HDMI 2.1 FRL signal (unclear if 24Gbps?, 32 Gbps?, 40 Gbps? or 48 Gbps?), and all other cards are HDMI 2.0 with 18 Gbps speed.

This is what happens when HDMI Administrator publishes their decision to rebrand 2.0=2.1. And companies sell us a total mess...

Why would anyone want to use HDMI 2.1, when there is DisplayPort UHBR 20, which is, according to rumors, will be supported by Arc?

 

[Tek-Check]

Why would anyone want to use HDMI 2.1, when there is DisplayPort UHBR 20, which is, according to rumors, will be supported by Arc?

It's UHBR10 port at 40 Gbps, which is still being under certification process by VESA. Have a look at A380 spec on Intel's website.
Anyone can use either port and match it with whatever monitor or TV port they have at home.
Why not use HDMI 2.1 if someone has 4K/120 OLED TV? None of TVs has DisplayPort.
HDMI 2.1 port is currently superior in terms of bandwidth until DP 2.0 ports start working finally and become more mainstream.

Nvidia customers will unfortunately not enjoy this pleasure until 2024 and 5000 series, as the company has disappointed big time with omission of DP 2.0 on cards that cost up to $1600. Shambles. So much for promoting innovative connectivity technologies.

 

[nguyen]

Man people don't know what TSMC is charging way more dough than Samsung, Samsung 8N cost ~4k usd while TSMC 5nm cost ~17k usd per wafer according to 2020 data

AD104 chip could cost 2x as much as GA102 chip that are on 3090Ti/3090/3080Ti/3080

That means Ampere will have the cost benefit for now while ADA will have performance and efficiency benefit.

 

[regs]

It's UHBR10 port at 40 Gbps, which is still being under certification process by VESA. Have a look at A380 spec on Intel's website.

A380 is ACM-G11 chip. Rest will be ACM-G10. Specs aren't fully announced yet.

Why not use HDMI 2.1 if someone has 4K/120 OLED TV?

It's paid, it's proprietary and it's wporse in any way. Why paying for that? Industry should completely abolish HDMI.