Ryzen Owners Zen Garden

[Ibizadr]

I had to take my B-Die to 1.55V to be stable at 3800 CL14 1T. Here are the settings I used. ClkDrvStr 40 and you may need to add AddrCmdSetup 56 if
you get a bluescreen going into windows. RDWR can go to 7.

View attachment 264101

It boots but when tested with memtest5 1usmus config give me errors on 6 and 12. Rolling back to 2t since the performance in Aida didn't change

 

[RoyZ]

I have a MSI B450 Gaming Plus motherboard, and I read it can take the 5000 ryzen CPUs with latest BIOS update.

So since I plan to stick with this system for some time still, I'll probably replace my 3600 with a 5000 series.
Here where I live is not easy getting a good deal on a 5800X3D, so I'm probably gonna aim at a 5700X or a 5800X when I see a promo.

For gaming purposes only, you guys think it is worth going for the 5800X over the 5700X?

Also, the 5700X has a 65w base TDP right? So thats something to consider, since my mobo is not high end, VRMs might not be the best. Though when I bought it I did read that on that price line it actually has pretty decent VRMs, but I'm no expert.

Rest of my system is a RTX 2060 Super, 16 gb of 3000 RAM.

 

[Kursah]

Congrats! Nice monitor. I just made the jump to 32" not too long ago.

You'll be fine. I spent couple years at 1440p and 4K with a i7-4790K and GTX 1070 (which the 1660 Super basically is). Just have to temper your expectations a bit in newer games and turn some settings down. I didn't have a high refresh monitor, so it'll be even easier for you since you'll have a Freesync range of what, 40-165Hz? As long as you can meet 40fps to trigger VRR.

Plus, so many games have built-in resolution scalers so you can just drop the render resolution nicely like that without it looking terrible. Unlike me back in the day having to do straight 1080p or 1440p @ 4K



Now man's just missing a 4090

You can definitely get 5800X down to 3700X levels of thermals (very comfortable for a U14S) with a bit of work on your power limits and some Curve Optimizer. Just gotta put in a little bit of time.

Thank you sir!

I can't complain about the thermals at this point plus we're going into winter. My case fans are all on low speed as it stands on an 80-degree day and I'm seeing 60s and 70s under load depending on what I'm looking at on HWiNFO.

I need to get up to speed. I haven't benched, stressed (other than some P95 recently to make sure things were stable), or tuned this setup nor did I do much with my old 2700x because it wasn't capable of anything beyond what PBO could do. So I undervolted it for a little bit. Even that was trivial.

I'm game to learn some new stuff, you got some articles or videos I can check out? Thanks again!

 

[tabascosauz]

Thank you sir!

I can't complain about the thermals at this point plus we're going into winter. My case fans are all on low speed as it stands on an 80-degree day and I'm seeing 60s and 70s under load depending on what I'm looking at on HWiNFO.

I need to get up to speed. I haven't benched, stressed (other than some P95 recently to make sure things were stable), or tuned this setup nor did I do much with my old 2700x because it wasn't capable of anything beyond what PBO could do. So I undervolted it for a little bit. Even that was trivial.

I'm game to learn some new stuff, you got some articles or videos I can check out? Thanks again!

Only Youtuber with Ryzen 5000 tweaking content in a reasonable package (not bullshitting out their ass or rambling for 2 hours) might be Optimumtech. I don't think he talks about power limits though, for best thermal results you might need to combine lower PPT/TDC/EDC with Curve Optimizer.

We've got a lot of threads here spanning a long time, @Mussels post#1 has the basics:

5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix

The 5800x is well known for having heat issues on stock settings, because it's single 8 core CCX design shares the same power limits as the 2x6 (dual 6 core CCX) 5900x - so it's got a lot less space to cool itself with. A big part of the problem is that motherboards will raise the maximum TDC...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Mussels]

I have a MSI B450 Gaming Plus motherboard, and I read it can take the 5000 ryzen CPUs with latest BIOS update.

So since I plan to stick with this system for some time still, I'll probably replace my 3600 with a 5000 series.
Here where I live is not easy getting a good deal on a 5800X3D, so I'm probably gonna aim at a 5700X or a 5800X when I see a promo.

For gaming purposes only, you guys think it is worth going for the 5800X over the 5700X?

Also, the 5700X has a 65w base TDP right? So thats something to consider, since my mobo is not high end, VRMs might not be the best. Though when I bought it I did read that on that price line it actually has pretty decent VRMs, but I'm no expert.

Rest of my system is a RTX 2060 Super, 16 gb of 3000 RAM.

5700x are an amazing gaming CPU, and have none of the heat issues other ryzens have - I was totally stunned seeing how cold they run on a friends system, the first time i'd seen one in person

The 5700x is Zen 3 tuned for the very best power efficiency, the best performance per watt overall. It matches a 5950x multi threaded, and is second best single threaded
(The 5700G is absurdly efficient, but not as powerful overall due to less cache)

It's not #1 in gaming efficiency (5600x beats it) - but if you want more multi threaded power than a 5600x has, it's the winner there

My view on these graphs:

Gaming efficiency matters now - but over time as games get more and more threads involved, you need to look at the multi threaded graph for future needs.
You don't want a CPU that runs fine now, but when a next gen game comes out using 12 threads and AVX, and suddenly you thermal throttle.

Generally you'll find a certain threshold where you use more power for almost zero performance gain - on the 5800x i think around 120W PPT was that limit, the last 20W just add heat.
If you find out those limits, you can control the CPU's even better (Just find your stock and ECO values and aim in between them, raise lower them all 10% at a time or something)

And then if you have the time, throw in curve optimiser and see if you can get more clock speed with the same limits

 

[RoyZ]

5700x are an amazing gaming CPU, and have none of the heat issues other ryzens have - I was totally stunned seeing how cold they run on a friends system, the first time i'd seen one in person

The 5700x is Zen 3 tuned for the very best power efficiency, the best performance per watt overall. It matches a 5950x multi threaded, and is second best single threaded
(The 5700G is absurdly efficient, but not as powerful overall due to less cache)

It's not #1 in gaming efficiency (5600x beats it) - but if you want more multi threaded power than a 5600x has, it's the winner there
View attachment 264251View attachment 264252


My view on these graphs:

Gaming efficiency matters now - but over time as games get more and more threads involved, you need to look at the multi threaded graph for future needs.
You don't want a CPU that runs fine now, but when a next gen game comes out using 12 threads and AVX, and suddenly you thermal throttle.

Generally you'll find a certain threshold where you use more power for almost zero performance gain - on the 5800x i think around 120W PPT was that limit, the last 20W just add heat.
If you find out those limits, you can control the CPU's even better (Just find your stock and ECO values and aim in between them, raise lower them all 10% at a time or something)

And then if you have the time, throw in curve optimiser and see if you can get more clock speed with the same limits

Thank you for your reply. Great information there.

I got another quick question for you guys, about BIOS - AGESA(?)

I'm currently using on my mobo a BIOS version from late 2019, it says AGESA 1.0.0.4 Patch B.

In my current system (MSI B450 Gaming Plus + R5 3600), do I get any benefit upgrading to the latest BIOS (AGESA 1.2.0.7)? Or should I only worry about that when I get my 5000 series ryzen? (cause then I WILL have to do this update, to be able to use the 5000 series on my B450)

 

[Mussels]

You might as well update since it adds in support for windows 11 officially, as well as various fixes


If you're using an antique GPU you may have issues if you dont have UEFI support

 

[Durhamranger]

Just a bit of fun....

 

[freeagent]

Well, doesn't matter.. 2x sticks, 4x sticks, 1933 is the max WHEA free I can get. Was hoping for at least 2000 FCLK with 2x sticks but she just doesn't wanna.

Its also good for TM5 Anta777 Absolute but I forgot to copy the screen to my storage drive. VDIMM is a bit high at 1.575v but my Black and Whites are to blame because they are not as strong as my Royals.

 

[Mussels]

I guess clocking up the IF is also raising the clocks on the 3D cache too?

 

[tabascosauz]

I guess clocking up the IF is also raising the clocks on the 3D cache too?

Cache clock has not got anything to do with Fabric clock.

Other Zen 3 clocks L3 mirrors core clocks under load. 5800X3D L3 seems like it might be behaving a little differently. L3 is still stuck on VDDCR_CPU obviously, but idk if AMD has already split off L3 clock, or maybe introduced some new C-state stuff that's hampering software's ability to read L3 clock

 

[Mussels]

Mines yet to arrive, be interesting to see how she fares

 

[tabascosauz]

Mines yet to arrive, be interesting to see how she fares

X570 Strix-F, you have access to modded BIOSes that might give you control over PBO and CO. Except Fmax which is hardlocked. The rest of us don't have any native BIOS access to PBO limits or curve optimizer, only through PBO2 tuner, or Kombo Strike for MSI (which is kinda janky and not quite what CO is 100%).

(same stuff posted on different forums)

[Bios Mod] ROG Strix X570-E/F/I Gaming | Overclock.net
[Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming) | Hardwareluxx

 

[Mussels]

X570 Strix-F, you have access to modded BIOSes that might give you control over PBO and CO. Except Fmax which is hardlocked. The rest of us don't have any native BIOS access to PBO limits or curve optimizer, only through PBO2 tuner, or Kombo Strike for MSI (which is kinda janky and not quite what CO is 100%).

(same stuff posted on different forums)

[Bios Mod] ROG Strix X570-E/F/I Gaming | Overclock.net
[Sammelthread] - ASUS X570 Strix Series (X570-E Gaming, X570-E Gaming Wifi II, X570-F Gaming, X570-I Gaming) | Hardwareluxx

I've been following the second one, wasnt aware of the overclock.net one
So far they mostly just added chipset fan control so i never bothered, i'll have to see what they've done

edit: Ah yep i missed when this was added:

• Unlocked PBO for 5800X3D
  PBO Limits and CO should work

Hey tabasco if you're feeling brave, go see if this tool lets you modify PBO settings on your x3D

GitHub - DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF

Popped in another thread where a user tweaked their ryzen laptops settings with it, that are hidden in the default BIOS

 

[tabascosauz]

Hey tabasco if you're feeling brave, go see if this tool lets you modify PBO settings on your x3D

GitHub - DavidS95/Smokeless_UMAF

Popped in another thread where a user tweaked their ryzen laptops settings with it, that are hidden in the default BIOS

X3D may do some things differently I think. Those options are hidden but might still be tweakable on Renoir mobile. X3D automatically wipes a lot of these settings on every reboot, maybe on a hardware level (Fmax is already locked on a hardware level and can't be worked around). Not sure but someone was saying that on X3D, AGESA runs its whitelisting thing after POST so what you see in BIOS is not what you get when you actually get into Windows. idk which settings that applies to. Others trying to mod BIOS were finding that entire CBS/OC menus were missing from pre-1207 AGESA (which I won't do, 1207 nukes my performance).

There's a lot of risk in this stuff (I tried a modded BIOS someone made for my board, flashback refused to take the file regardless of the USB I used) and uncertainty between different board vendors - just running PBO2 Tuner automatically through a startup Task right now, working well

 

[outpt]

WIsh me luck.. I usually dont buy new gen stuff this soon, but my alderlake rig didnt give me any issues early on.

Asus X670E-E and 7950x.
The DDR5-5600 was free (microcenter is running a deal where you get free memory with Zen4)
I will probably use some DDR5-6000 i have on hand though.
View attachment 264110

All hale the king

 

[Mussels]

This is what i'm looking forward to on the x3D:
How high can i get my 99%? ('scuse the steam achievements behind the first result overlay appeared on wrong screen)

1440p (DLAA)

4k (DLAA)

4K DLSS

Edit: Huh, DX11 Render latency is way lower than DX12 - almost halved?

 

[Chomiq]

F

 

[Ruru]

Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.

CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
HyperX Fury 32GB DDR4-3200 kit with XMP on (16-18-18-36-1T)

I didn't have this issue with my older Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite.

edit: I have also a fresh Win11 Pro install, installed it yesterday.

 

[freeagent]

You can hear the sadness, booo.

I feel for him.

 

[tabascosauz]

Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.

CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
HyperX Fury 32GB DDR4-3200 kit with XMP on (16-18-18-36-1T)

I didn't have this issue with my older Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite.

edit: I have also a fresh Win11 Pro install, installed it yesterday.

Reinstalling Windows shouldn't help, it's either a firmware/hardware problem. There's not too many things you can try

• Chipset drivers? Latest is from August '22
• Playing with VSOC/VDDG_IOD to see if anything helps
• Keeping/getting rid of DAC drivers (probably only works for crappy Focusrite)
• Cstates off maybe? Generally not a great idea for idle power and sometimes performance

As you said yourself, it's really board dependent. AMD has tried to solve this problem like 3 distinct times through AGESA. But if your board just has it then sometimes your only solution is go to a different board. My B550M TUF Wifi couldn't get away from the USB issues but my Impact and all my ITX boards have never had any problems.

Though, on a lot of AM4 block diagrams I've seen, the onboard audio is usually connected to the CPU not the PCH. Not sure what's going on there with your board, the audio popping issues usually are from external audio devices and part of the USB problems on AM4

 

[Ruru]

Reinstalling Windows shouldn't help, it's either a firmware/hardware problem. There's not too many things you can try

• Chipset drivers? Latest is from August '22
• Playing with VSOC/VDDG_IOD to see if anything helps
• Keeping/getting rid of DAC drivers (probably only works for crappy Focusrite)
• Cstates off maybe? Generally not a great idea for idle power and sometimes performance

As you said yourself, it's really board dependent. AMD has tried to solve this problem like 3 distinct times through AGESA. But if your board just has it then sometimes your only solution is go to a different board. My B550M TUF Wifi couldn't get away from the USB issues but my Impact and all my ITX boards have never had any problems.

Though, on a lot of AM4 block diagrams I've seen, the onboard audio is usually connected to the CPU not the PCH. Not sure what's going on there with your board, the audio popping issues usually are from external audio devices and part of the USB problems on AM4

I have the latest chipset drivers as well. I'll do some fine tuning with those voltages as I already tried something which I found from reddit via google:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/el8odk

And yeah, I just reinstalled Windows as I thought that there may have been some crap left behind from the old board's audio drivers though I also uninstalled those.

 

[thesmokingman]

Get yourself external audio and free yourself from onboard sound forever....

I carry over my Fiio K5 Pro and Micca Origain (or x amp/rec) to every system, same excellent audio every rig it goes into.

 

[Mussels]

Last i checked, i was able to get just under or above 60ns
I need to figure out whats messing with me, before i slap in the x3D (just arrived)

Anyone got recommended benchmarks and such to do before/after with? R23 obviously isnt the best choice

Tips for getting rid of that random audio crackling which some Ryzen users have/had? No matter do I use the board's own audio or DAC.

CH VII Hero with BIOS version 4901 (most recent one)
R5 3600 (no manual OC, just PBO on)
HyperX Fury 32GB DDR4-3200 kit with XMP on (16-18-18-36-1T)

I didn't have this issue with my older Gigabyte B550M Aorus Elite.

edit: I have also a fresh Win11 Pro install, installed it yesterday.

SoC voltage to 1.15V, PCI-E 3.0 - dont use PCI-E risers or USB extensions for high power devices
The top four USB ports are direct from CPU and usually better, but instability from connected devices feeds back into it
Most onboard audio is PCI-E connected, errors on the bus (WHEA included) can cause everything from crackles and issues, to bus resets (the infamous USB dropouts)
Since i solved the memory issues (faulty stick) on my 2700x system, i've not had any issues in months

 

[tabascosauz]

@Mussels did you set yourself up for benching? ie. no background programs, disable internet + reboot once, disable search service if necessary, no HWInfo or other monitoring for absolute best latency, etc.

Or just straight up safemode works too. Give your timings a quick check too.

Copy looks a little low (closer to 3200CL16 bandwidth). L3 latency is really high, seems like you didn't get rid of background stuff. First run usually suffers too

You can double click on any one box to just test that field (ie. DRAM latency). Saves time and allows you to bench back to back to see if some background process is interfering

Expect a 3-4ns penalty from the 5800X3D on both DRAM and L3 latencies.

I mean, it's DRAM performance so you wouldn't be using R23 either. Maybe Linpack, Geekbench3 memory score or the Membench inside DRAM Calc? Although, none of them will tell you anything meaningful without a normal baseline