Adventure: Running 8/9th gen Coffee Lake CPUs on Z170 motherboard (ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger)

[z270f]

I see. It should work without issues.
I am wondering, did you isolate the pads on the CPU?
If you did the isolation, it might be possible that more pins are isolated which is causing iGPU not to work.
It would be great if you can take out the CPU once and share us a photo here.

Yes isolated 5 pins for the Asus pattern in "L" shape and foil tape to connect the 2 pins needed to power on. Those isolated pins are only reserved pins not use by iGPU rite? I try not to take it out if I don't have to, coz I'm afraid the 2 connected pin might get out of place. Pic attached.

I used Neoprogrammer to program and checksum is fine. Does it matter? or I have to try the old CH341a programmer or asprogrammer?

Thanks

 

[itsakjt]

Yes isolated 5 pins for the Asus pattern in "L" shape and foil tape to connect the 2 pins needed to power on. Those isolated pins are only reserved pins not use by iGPU rite? I try not to take it out if I don't have to, coz I'm afraid the 2 connected pin might get out of place. Pic attached.

I used Neoprogrammer to program and checksum is fine. Does it matter? or I have to try the old CH341a programmer or asprogrammer?

Thanks

That's where likely the problem is present. You only need to isolate these two pins:

Please try it and let us know if it works.

 

[z270f]

That's where likely the problem is present. You only need to isolate these two pins:

View attachment 254598

Please try it and let us know if it works.

It's a lot easier to do the "L" shape tape instead of only isolating the 2 pins for ASUS. But if i have a gigabyte board all the pins I isolated is a must so the igpu pins should not be in the ones I isolated? (red shade in diagram) unless the igpu is not going to work with gigabyte board for the mod?

Thanks

 

[Wolverine2349]

Since the socket was the same from 6th gen to 9th gen, did Intel artificially limit Z170 and Z270 from running anything more than 6th and 7th Gen on these boards?? Or were there actual technical reasons like VRM being too weak for 6 and 8 core CPUs??

 

[itsakjt]

Correct. That totally makes sense.
Can you check with the DVI or Display Port to see if that makes any difference?
To be honest, I didn't really check either of my boards (Maximus VIII Ranger and Z270-K) with the iGPU)
The Z270-K has a 9700KF so I can't check with that too.

Since the socket was the same from 6th gen to 9th gen, did Intel artificially limit Z170 and Z270 from running anything more than 6th and 7th Gen on these boards?? Or were there actual technical reasons like VRM being too weak for 6 and 8 core CPUs??

They did limit through firmware (Management Engine) and they also purposefully modified the pin outs slightly to make them incompatible with otherwise completely capable boards.
They of course cited the reason to be higher power requirement but at this time, that reason does not hold true since capable 100 and 200 series boards can run even the 9900K and even the KS in all their glory.

 

[z270f]

Correct. That totally makes sense.
Can you check with the DVI or Display Port to see if that makes any difference?
To be honest, I didn't really check either of my boards (Maximus VIII Ranger and Z270-K) with the iGPU)
The Z270-K has a 9700KF so I can't check with that too.


They did limit through firmware (Management Engine) and they also purposefully modified the pin outs slightly to make them incompatible with otherwise completely capable boards.
They of course cited the reason to be higher power requirement but at this time, that reason does not hold true since capable 100 and 200 series boards can run even the 9900K and even the KS in all their glory.

I tried both HDMI/Display port...no luck with those. I don't have the DVI cable nor monitor with DVI anymore to try.

Should I try to disable ME in coffeetime or patch with the latest available 11.8.x and reflash the bios?

Thanks

 

[itsakjt]

I tried both HDMI/Display port...no luck with those. I don't have the DVI cable nor monitor with DVI anymore to try.

Should I try to disable ME in coffeetime or patch with the latest available 11.8.x and reflash the bios?

Thanks

11.8 ME do not work with the mod. The system won't POST and will turn off instantly after power on.
ME is not related to iGPU. Could you please share your BIOS file?

 

[Vario]

Since the socket was the same from 6th gen to 9th gen, did Intel artificially limit Z170 and Z270 from running anything more than 6th and 7th Gen on these boards?? Or were there actual technical reasons like VRM being too weak for 6 and 8 core CPUs??

Oddly some of the strongest Coffee Lake records were done on ASRock Z170 OC Formula, that board had a very robust power design. However, my theory is the average Z170/Z270 probably was too weak for the 8700K when overclocked so they artificially limited the socket.

 

[z270f]

11.8 ME do not work with the mod. The system won't POST and will turn off instantly after power on.
ME is not related to iGPU. Could you please share your BIOS file?

I finally got the igpu to work, I fell back to official 1301 and did the Coffeetime 0.99 again and loaded with CHA341 programmer instead of Neoprogrammer. May try again with 1501 later, but I'm enjoying full working 8400 now.

Next step maybe getting one of those QQLS/QTJ1 mutant CPU, do you know if the CoffeeTime modded bios is going to work or have to use the bios the seller provides?

Thanks!

 

[itsakjt]

I finally got the igpu to work, I fell back to official 1301 and did the Coffeetime 0.99 again and loaded with CHA341 programmer instead of Neoprogrammer. May try again with 1501 later, but I'm enjoying full working 8400 now.

Next step maybe getting one of those QQLS/QTJ1 mutant CPU, do you know if the CoffeeTime modded bios is going to work or have to use the bios the seller provides?

Thanks!

Great and congratulations again.
For the QQLS/QTJ1, check their BIOS file if they have the same microcodes and if so, it will be plug and play. If not, look for the CPU ID and download the microcode separately from github and then rename the file to something CoffeeLake recognizes and put it inside the mcodes folder inside CoffeeLake.
However, do note that RAM frequency and overclocking is severely limited on mutant CPUs. If you are looking for outright performance, it is better to get an used 9700K or an 9900K.

 

[z270f]

Great and congratulations again.
For the QQLS/QTJ1, check their BIOS file if they have the same microcodes and if so, it will be plug and play. If not, look for the CPU ID and download the microcode separately from github and then rename the file to something CoffeeLake recognizes and put it inside the mcodes folder inside CoffeeLake.
However, do note that RAM frequency and overclocking is severely limited on mutant CPUs. If you are looking for outright performance, it is better to get an used 9700K or an 9900K.

Thank you for all your help : )

The reason why I'm considering the mutant CPU is the price...it's around $140 US only, with the catch being max out memory bandwidth 3000. Looks like the mutant can still hit like 4.4 to 4.6?

9700k is like $200 US and 9900k is like $300 US

So other than no official Win 11 support and lower memory bandwidth for the Mutant I think at that price point it is worth it to make that sacrifice?

I believe daily usage I won't feel the lower memory bandwidth...maybe few fps drop, think I can live with that.

If something I'm missing that I need to consider please let me know then the 9700k will be my target...just 8core with not HT, not the end of world.

Thanks

 

[itsakjt]

Thank you for all your help : )

The reason why I'm considering the mutant CPU is the price...it's around $140 US only, with the catch being max out memory bandwidth 3000. Looks like the mutant can still hit like 4.4 to 4.6?

9700k is like $200 US and 9900k is like $300 US

So other than no official Win 11 support and lower memory bandwidth for the Mutant I think at that price point it is worth it to make that sacrifice?

I believe daily usage I won't feel the lower memory bandwidth...maybe few fps drop, think I can live with that.

If something I'm missing that I need to consider please let me know then the 9700k will be my target...just 8core with not HT, not the end of world.

Thanks

The mutant will do Win 11 just fine.
The only thing that suffers is the memory bandwidth.
With that noted, you can check for an used 9700K or 9900K or even an 8700K. Intel CPUs rarely go faulty and often, you will find great deals on an used CPU. With some luck, it can still be in warranty as well.
If you can get a 9700K for 140 USD, I would say go for it. I have the 9700K on the Maximus VIII Ranger as on my system specs here and have another PC with a 9700KF and a Z270-K and both of them are excellent performers.

 

[z270f]

The mutant will do Win 11 just fine.
The only thing that suffers is the memory bandwidth.
With that noted, you can check for an used 9700K or 9900K or even an 8700K. Intel CPUs rarely go faulty and often, you will find great deals on an used CPU. With some luck, it can still be in warranty as well.
If you can get a 9700K for 140 USD, I would say go for it. I have the 9700K on the Maximus VIII Ranger as on my system specs here and have another PC with a 9700KF and a Z270-K and both of them are excellent performers.

Thank you so much for the advise.

I think I will go with the Mutant based on the price only....unless I can hunt for an amazing deal for 9700k. Other than benchmark, I don't think less memory bandwidth will impact me much in daily usage/gaming. I guess I have to mod the win11 installation to ignore no TPM2.0 check for it it install, 9700k doesn't need that and officially supported without mod to installation iso?

I'm not trying to spend too much on this setup as newer AM5 platform coming out at the end of the year might sound promising for performance/price value.

 

[itsakjt]

Thank you so much for the advise.

I think I will go with the Mutant based on the price only....unless I can hunt for an amazing deal for 9700k. Other than benchmark, I don't think less memory bandwidth will impact me much in daily usage/gaming. I guess I have to mod the win11 installation to ignore no TPM2.0 check for it it install, 9700k doesn't need that and officially supported without mod to installation iso?

I'm not trying to spend too much on this setup as newer AM5 platform coming out at the end of the year might sound promising for performance/price value.

Hi, sure you can go for the mutant CPU.
Also, being a Z270, it should have TPM 2.0 out of the box. Go to UEFI and under Advanced, check for Intel Platform Trust or Trusted Computing and enable it. It should work irrespective of what CPU you are using as it is a feature enabled through the chipset and included in the Management Engine firmware.
After that, you should be able to install a fresh copy of Windows 11 without any modifications to the ISO. Do note though that upgrading from a 10 installation might not be possible due to the CPU. A fresh install will definitely work.

 

[z270f]

Hi, sure you can go for the mutant CPU.
Also, being a Z270, it should have TPM 2.0 out of the box. Go to UEFI and under Advanced, check for Intel Platform Trust or Trusted Computing and enable it. It should work irrespective of what CPU you are using as it is a feature enabled through the chipset and included in the Management Engine firmware.
After that, you should be able to install a fresh copy of Windows 11 without any modifications to the ISO. Do note though that upgrading from a 10 installation might not be possible due to the CPU. A fresh install will definitely work.

Perfect! Thank you so much for all your help. You brought back life to my almost recycle machine into something modern and useful : ) I can save $ going into Gen12 CPU platform for a good powerful GPU. I guess I can hold on to this machine as long as the GPU doesn't get bottleneck by PCIe Gen 3.

Thank you, thank you thank you!

 

[jedi23]

When I replaced the Skylake Processor on my Asus Z170-Deluxe board with a Coffee Lake Mutant CPU, Windows attested that I fulfill the requirements for Windows 11 and I did the upgrade the official way without problems. Now I want to install the 2022 update, but Window now says my system doesn't meet the requirements because of an unsupported processor. So why did Microsoft accept this processor in the first place?
So any idea why it worked in the past and how I can convince Windows that I have a Coffee Lake CPU?

I'm not asking how to force install Windows 11 on unsupported systems, I want that my system recognizes my CPU as a supported Coffee Lake model, like it did in the past!

 

[itsakjt]

When I replaced the Skylake Processor on my Asus Z170-Deluxe board with a Coffee Lake Mutant CPU, Windows attested that I fulfill the requirements for Windows 11 and I did the upgrade the official way without problems. Now I want to install the 2022 update, but Window now says my system doesn't meet the requirements because of an unsupported processor. So why did Microsoft accept this processor in the first place?
So any idea why it worked in the past and how I can convince Windows that I have a Coffee Lake CPU?

I'm not asking how to force install Windows 11 on unsupported systems, I want that my system recognizes my CPU as a supported Coffee Lake model, like it did in the past!

Hello there.
Please download the iso file using the Media Creation Tool. Doing so will skip CPU checks so that you can directly update to Windows 11 22H2. If you do it via the Installation Assistant, it will force you to download Windows PC Health Check and since mutant CPUs are not added to Windows official list, hence it will fail the check.

 

[jedi23]

I'm just wondering because Windows 10 definitively attest me after the CPU replacement, that all my components are suitable for Windows 11 and I upgraded directly via Windows Update.

So if the checks are stricter now, I will try the ISO installation.

However, are the checks really stricter now? I mean there was no change in the requirements from Microsoft at all. I still think there must be a way that Windows recognizes my Mutant CPU as a supported Coffee Lake model, like it did in the past!

 

[martiny]

Hello,

I try to mod my PC like you do, but I have an issue.
I copper taped my i5-9440F CPU (I dont have the tools for micro soldering) and install my coffeetimed BIOS (using AFUWIN) on my asus maximus 8 ranger (like yours).
I select the microcodes 906EA/906EB/906ED and the one for my old i5-6600K CPU.

When I boot up with the 6600K it work propely, but when I install the 9440F it doesn't. It turn on for a second and then turn off.

Do you have any idea of what is my issue ?
I will try to edit some voltage, but I don't know which and how, and it's boring to mount the CPU, the cooler, do some modification, dismount the cooler, the CPU, mount the other CPU, the cooler, try to boot and do it again if doesn't work ToT.

 

[itsakjt]

Hello,

I try to mod my PC like you do, but I have an issue.
I copper taped my i5-9440F CPU (I dont have the tools for micro soldering) and install my coffeetimed BIOS (using AFUWIN) on my asus maximus 8 ranger (like yours).
I select the microcodes 906EA/906EB/906ED and the one for my old i5-6600K CPU.

When I boot up with the 6600K it work propely, but when I install the 9440F it doesn't. It turn on for a second and then turn off.

Do you have any idea of what is my issue ?
I will try to edit some voltage, but I don't know which and how, and it's boring to mount the CPU, the cooler, do some modification, dismount the cooler, the CPU, mount the other CPU, the cooler, try to boot and do it again if doesn't work ToT.

Hello there, you need to downgrade the Intel Management Engine version to 1229 using Coffeetime. Also, AFUWIN won't flash the Management Engine version and hence using an external flasher is a must for ASUS motherboards which have regions locked for flashing.

 

[martiny]

Hello there, you need to downgrade the Intel Management Engine version to 1229 using Coffeetime. Also, AFUWIN won't flash the Management Engine version and hence using an external flasher is a must for ASUS motherboards which have regions locked for flashing.

Ho, I assuming that because my PC boot up than everything with coffetime has been flashed propely but you are right the ME is still in 11.6.10.1196.

I can't buy easily a external flasher because amazon don't deliver in my country, do you know an alternate way to do it ? I see in a tutorial based on your work than some ppl do it with Intel FPT, is it possible with my MB ?

Thanks for your advices, you saved me a lot of time

 

[itsakjt]

Ho, I assuming that because my PC boot up than everything with coffetime has been flashed propely but you are right the ME is still in 11.6.10.1196.

I can't buy easily a external flasher because amazon don't deliver in my country, do you know an alternate way to do it ? I see in a tutorial based on your work than some ppl do it with Intel FPT, is it possible with my MB ?

Thanks for your advices, you saved me a lot of time

Hi there, with some motherboards especially from GIGABYTE and MSI, it is possible to do it via FPT. However, with ASUS boards the FD and ME regions are write protected and hence you will need a low level flasher to do a complete reflash. Look for the CH341A flasher in your country locally. It is common and cheap and should do the job just fine.

 

[martiny]

I'm in swiss, only wish/aliexpress sell the CH341A, no local shop and I can't wait 3 month more.
I will ask a friend from France, they have amazon.

 

[martiny]

I need to wait the next week for the CH341A.
During this wait I will try to do the thing by other way.

Do you know which variable(s) lock the FD on the M8R bios ? with EFI shell I can edit it.

 

[itsakjt]

I need to wait the next week for the CH341A.
During this wait I will try to do the thing by other way.

Do you know which variable(s) lock the FD on the M8R bios ? with EFI shell I can edit it.

Hi there. I am not exactly sure of the setup variable. Which motherboard are you using?