NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition

[Luminescent]

I expect a total sold out. We are so many people in the world and everyone has a different situation.

If the stock is of 2 gpus of course, i doubt retailers will stock up in the thousands for rtx 4090, remember, mining is dead.

There are not expected any energy rations on any house, maybe for the industry. For example, here in Spain, we don't have any problems with this, we have a lot of renewable energies and other solutions. There are many countries in Europe that doesn't have this problems, but as always, Germany problems has to be everyone problems.

I don't know in Spain but in most EU energy prices tripled and quadrupled in price and there is no sign of stoping.

Has nothing to do with this models, all semiconductor companies are down in market share because potatoes (and global situation, china chips bans, etc), but for example, in 2020 this companies went up a lot with the same sales.

However, Nvidia it's grewing up his revenue since... ¿6 years? Every quarter without interrumptions.

Isn't 2020 the year pandemic restrictions hit ?
I will let it written here so we come back in a year or two, octomber 12 2022, no matter the gpu segment, low mid or high end, Nvidia sales will drop considerably and nobody will care, there is no more mining, most gamers moved on and the current inflation needs a recession.
They will be lucky to sell a 300-400$ GPU in a year, hopefully Jen-Hsun Huang set aside some money for employees when times get tough.

 

[clopezi]

Nvidia should stop with the 'cheat codes' to boost fps like frame generation and crap like that.

Did you see the comparative? I've to see it in frame by frame mode to see any differences. In real time, looks the same to me.

DLSS3 dosn't look like a "crap", it's a wonderful tool to take 40fps games and make it 100fps games.

 

[Rokugan]

Just about everything in the EU is priced insane. Do you ever think it might be the EU and not Nvidia?

I know it's the dreadly combination of current Eur/$ rate being around parity, and our stupidly high VAT taxes. But still, +25% increase vs the USA price is bonkers, period.
I'd buy a 4090 for 1.600 Eur. For 2K Eur won't. Ever. Specially taking into account I can buy a 2nd hand 3090 for 700 Eur.
Also, 99% sure that DLSS3 will be implemented for RTX3K series as well, the RTX4K exclusivity is just a temporary BS marketing stunt, zero technical reason for that.

I don't know in Spain but in most EU energy prices tripled and quadrupled in price and there is no sign of stoping.

In Spain prices have tripled as well. Renewables are significant in Spain, but we are heavily dependent on gas as the rest of Europe, and we import a lot of nuclear generated electricity from France

There are not expected any energy rations on any house, maybe for the industry. For example, here in Spain, we don't have any problems with this, we have a lot of renewable energies and other solutions. There are many countries in Europe that doesn't have this problems, but as always, Germany problems has to be everyone problems.

Stupid beyond comprehension. I'm in Spain and renewable energies DON'T warrant a continuous supply 24/7 because it can't be stored, and they don't produce enough energy anyways.
Simple proof is that everyone's electrical bill in Spain has x3 in price. Alas, the clowns in our government have already warned that there could be energy cuts this winter.
Don't spread BS

 

[clopezi]

Simple proof is that everyone's electrical bill in Spain has x3 in price. Don't spread BS

I didn't say anything about the price, but of possible rationing. We are now serving, in addition to 100% domestic, 50% of Portugal energy and 20% of France energy

 

[Rokugan]

I didn't say anything about the price, but of possible rationing. We are now serving, in addition to 100% domestic, 50% of Portugal energy and 20% of France energy

Do you understand supply/demand? Why do you think prices have 3x if we have so much energy to spare?
Answer: we don't. Renewables produce peaks that if not consumed they're lost, so they get exported.
But when renewables are not available, we are using gas and importing nuclear generated electricity from France like crazy.
Renewables are a band-aid, not a cure. And in winter demand will rise and prices will go even higher.

Also, Pinocchio Sanchez has already warned everyone there could be energy cuts. Probably they want to steal even more money.

 

[Valantar]

@W1zzard Most other publications seem to have had DLSS3 be so broken as to be essentially useless, yet you note no major problems. Any idea why this is?

Also, those power numbers are very different than what some other publications (GN, LTT) report - to the tune of ~100W in games. Makes me curious as to why that is - is CP2077 somehow CPU limited in the test scenario? Or is RTX 4000 power management just really weird and unpredictable between different games?


Other than that though, the absolute performance of this is quite impressive. To the degree that, well, buy this GPU and you'll be set for ... five years? More? Of high resolution, high frame rate, high settings gaming, with few compromises.

In light of which I can't help but foresee the GPU market shrinking massively in the next few years. Yes, there are tons of people on five-year-old GPUs who would be in the market for an upgrade right about now, but those are five-year-old $200 GPUs, and these people aren't spending $900+ on an upgrade. And these will no doubt sell to wealthy enthusiasts, but there aren't that many of those globally. And then there's the glut of now-previous gen cards, and the entry of Intel into the market (which is looking somewhat passable, at least for a first-gen effort). My hope? That AMD doesn't bother to compete all that hard with this, but rather puts out a couple of high-end SKUs before rapidly moving on to a highly competitive, cost-optimized midrange and lower midrange. Maybe an RX 7500 XT that's mostly a ~$150-200 die shrink of the RX 6600? That would be awesome, and would actually have a chance at selling in volume, unlike these billionaire yacht-style flagships.

 

[W1zzard]

Most other publications seem to have had DLSS3 be so broken as to be essentially useless, yet you note no major problems. Any idea why this is?

NVIDIA gave press a huge guide with lots of info on how to use DLSS3. One requirement is to have HAGS enabled, turn off V-Sync, not use certain overlays etc. Maybe they didn't read these guides? I did encounter crashes when changing settings in some games but I'm 100% sure these are just minor implementation details that are easy to fix in final builds. Publishers gave us beta access to preview builds, so this isn't unexpected.

The visuals you can see and judge for yourself. Once you're trained and fence area to look at the tyres in F1 you can see it in normal playback speed, but not when you're concentrating on driving a car. At least that's my experience. Zero difference in MSFS, even in stills

I'd personally love GTFO, but that'd be a proper pos to check (due to rng) (maybe the devs will respond to a benchmark level, doubt it)
Wsateland 3, Hardpoint: shipbreaker, Desperados?
Valheim is probably too CPU limited. same with Raft.

Wasteland 3 is super CPU limited, I tried that for Unity. Having doubts about the others, too, and I don't want a POS or always-online to make my benching life miserable .. remember I'm at 25 titles now

 

[antuk15]

4090 is double the performance in games that are not CPU limited like resident evil in 4K gen over gen which means 3090 non Ti. And with frame insertion probably goes up to 3 times.
How is it supposed to scale when it uses the same memory type, it needs GDDR7 very badly. But no such luck. This behemoth is doomed to a kind of failure like the Fermi. GDDR6X is broken, it does very little, 3070 Ti is the same as 3070, no actual benefit from transferring data on 4 voltage levels. just a ginormous power loss.

It doesn't need GDDR7, it needs HBM3.

 

[ARF]

Hoping 7900XT is priced at 1200€ and very close to the 4090 in performance or at least less than 25% slower

The RX 7900 XT won't be that slow, for sure. 25% less would make it only miserable 20-30% faster than the RX 6950 XT.

Meanwhile, RTX 4090 Ti is behind the corner: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Ti Rumored To Be Up To 20% Faster Than 4090: Specs Include 18176 Cores, 475W TGP, 96 MB Cache & Almost 3 GHz Boost (wccftech.com)

 

[P4-630]

About the 4090 Ti

According to the rumor, NVIDIA is already saving AD102 GPUs for GeForce RTX 4090 Ti - VideoCardz.com

NVIDIA RTX 4090 Ti back in the rumor mill NVIDIA is allegedly putting aside the best AD102 chips for the new flagship model. With today’s release of RTX 4090, the focus will now shift towards the upgraded Ti model, which had been rumored for many months already. NVIDIA has indeed left a lot of...

videocardz.com

 

[ARF]

24 GB is overkill. The change from lower models to higher models should not be this steep.

12 - 16 - 24 - 24.

Right: 16 - 18 - 20/22 - 24.

 

[Why_Me]

24 GB is overkill. The change from lower models to higher models should not be this steep.

12 - 16 - 24 - 24.

Right: 16 - 18 - 20/22 - 24

I'm thinking 20GB for the 4080 Ti.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

It is very expensive, the price have nothing to do with the MSRP.
View attachment 265104

Damn that's even worse than what I thought.
Review should reflect this, especially in the ratio price/performance.

 

[Dr. Dro]

As a 3090 owner, I'm debating whether to buy.

On one hand, it costs a lot of money at $1600.

On the other hand, each GPU generation now lasts about 2 years and prices move very little within those two years (absent external events like cryptocurrency crashes). Economics suggests that if I am going to buy it at any point in the next 2 years, I should buy as soon as possible. If I wait until 2023 or 2024 to buy, it will be the same price, and I will have given up 1-2 years I could have been using it.

It's an interesting consideration.

I had to blow what I had saved for this on emergency repairs for my setup, I planned on upgrading but now it's going to be for the inevitable Ti model. Honestly, as another 3090 owner I'm telling you, the FOMO should blow over. You are not missing out on much, if anything, the wise thing to do for people like us is to buy the 4090 Ti or AMD's 7950XT (Navi 31 refresh?)

 

[big_glasses]

Damn that's even worse than what I thought.
Review should reflect this, especially in the ratio price/performance.

It's why I generally am not a fan of price/perf, as it's too country/region dependent. and most (english) tech site have a very wide and global audience.
I do like what w1zzard have done with 4 "tiers" of price/perf for the new card, best solution I've seen for it so far. But it should have been a tier that is more expensive than MSRP

 

[Bwaze]

I do like what w1zzard have done with 4 "tiers" of price/perf for the new card, best solution I've seen for it so far. But it should have been a tier that is more expensive than MSRP

But what's the point in comparing a "1000 USD" 4090 to other cards at their real prices? Does anyone believe tha's a possibility?

 

[Why_Me]

Damn that's even worse than what I thought.
Review should reflect this, especially in the ratio price/performance.

That's the EU where pretty much everything is expensive.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007709 601408872 <---- US prices.

 

[Valantar]

But what's the point in comparing a "1000 USD" 4090 to other cards at their real prices? Does anyone believe tha's a possibility?

Agreed, that's rather weird. Below MSRP is fine, but 2/3rds the price? Not happening. And most partner models will be more expensive. Rather than $1000-1200-1400-1600 it should have been something like $1400-1600-1800-2000.

 

[Bwaze]

Yeah. After months of "plummeting prices" RTX 3080 is still at or above starting MSRP in Europe...

 

[Valantar]

Yeah. After months of "plummeting prices" RTX 3080 is still at or above starting MSRP in Europe...

What's the EU MSRP for those? If you're thinking of US$ MSRPs, those don't include sales tax/VAT/GST, so you need to add however much your country charges on top of the US MSRP. Blame the silly Americans with their wildly variable sales tax rates.

 

[ARF]

What's the EU MSRP for those? If you're thinking of US$ MSRPs, those don't include sales tax/VAT/GST, so you need to add however much your country charges on top of the US MSRP. Blame the silly Americans with their wildly variable sales tax rates.

It's not only the VAT. There are pricing differences inside these countries with the same VAT +19-20%.
It really depends on how greedy the retailers are.

I think the lowest prices inside the EU are those in Germany.

 

[Bwaze]

What's the EU MSRP for those? If you're thinking of US$ MSRPs, those don't include sales tax/VAT/GST, so you need to add however much your country charges on top of the US MSRP. Blame the silly Americans with their wildly variable sales tax rates.

It should be about US MSRP + VAT, so in Germany about 810 EUR. There are a few models about that price, and many far above it - after months of news how the prices are falling.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

It's why I generally am not a fan of price/perf, as it's too country/region dependent. and most (english) tech site have a very wide and global audience.
I do like what w1zzard have done with 4 "tiers" of price/perf for the new card, best solution I've seen for it so far. But it should have been a tier that is more expensive than MSRP

The problem with some English tech sites is they think there is only one market the US market (ironic given that the US gave up English a century ago).
I noticed the 4 tiers system, but it still not representative at all, there is a huge difference moving from 1600$ to 3100€. Maybe use Amazon's prices from different markets.
Another issue is tax, no one should show before tax price, it is meaningless.

 

[Valantar]

It's not only the VAT. There are pricing differences inside these countries with the same VAT +19-20%.
It really depends on how greedy the retailers are.

I think the lowest prices inside the EU are those in Germany.

It's very little due to "greedy retailers", and more due to the realities of operating in smaller, less unified markets. The US has massive economics of scale due to being a 300m people, wealthy, single-language market, meaning tons of sales of high margin products with relatively low staff needs and increased opportunity for centralization of various branches of the retail value chain. In contrast, while the EU is nominally a single market, it is still fragmented through language, distribution chains, localized economic factors, and more. This drives up prices simply because there are more people involved, more business costs that need covering in order to deliver the products onto retail shelves.

Germany being the cheapest in Europe just confirms this: it's the largest single market, and has a relatively high level of income, meaning it gets a lot of the same advantages as the US, just to a lesser degree due to less scale. The only major difference would be that many brands have direct distribution in the US (meaning AMD, Nvidia, Asus, and others sell directly to retailers rather than to distributors), which is again a limitation of market size - running your own distribution business is expensive and difficult.

After nearly a decade in electronics retail, even if that's a while back now, I can verify with 100% security that for most retailers, margins (especially on expensive products like GPUs and CPUs) are razor-thin, often below what is actually needed for the company to break even, let alone make any net profit.

It should be about US MSRP + VAT, so in Germany about 810 EUR.

By my calculation and current USD-EUR conversion rates according to DuckDuckGo, that's more like €850. $699*1.03*1.19=€852.6. And, of course, you never, ever get that conversion rate in the real world, so adding another few percent is pretty safe.

 

[ARF]

It's very little due to "greedy retailers", and more due to the realities of operating in smaller, less unified markets. The US has massive economics of scale due to being a 300m people, wealthy, single-language market, meaning tons of sales of high margin products with relatively low staff needs and increased opportunity for centralization of various branches of the retail value chain. In contrast, while the EU is nominally a single market, it is still fragmented through language, distribution chains, localized economic factors, and more. This drives up prices simply because there are more people involved, more business costs that need covering in order to deliver the products onto retail shelves.

Germany being the cheapest in Europe just confirms this: it's the largest single market, and has a relatively high level of income, meaning it gets a lot of the same advantages as the US, just to a lesser degree due to less scale. The only major difference would be that many brands have direct distribution in the US (meaning AMD, Nvidia, Asus, and others sell directly to retailers rather than to distributors), which is again a limitation of market size - running your own distribution business is expensive and difficult.

After nearly a decade in electronics retail, even if that's a while back now, I can verify with 100% security that for most retailers, margins (especially on expensive products like GPUs and CPUs) are razor-thin, often below what is actually needed for the company to break even, let alone make any net profit.

No, I disagree. The poorer EU countries have much lower purchase power, so these products are sitting on the shelves collecting dust. Because literally no one buys them.

Anyways, no matter where you live, you can always buy and import from Germany or from wherever it is the cheapest