AMD Cuts Down Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" Production As Demand Drops Like a Rock

[ir_cow]

You can buy a 11900K for $220 new (last month sale), its hard to spend the money for Zen4 unless you can a content creator.

 

[R0H1T]

I could buy a 5900x for roughly $250 six months back & 5950x for just over $400 some three months back so to compare sale prices isn't exactly fair. If you want a real bargain you can always wait & set price alerts on your favorite sites!

 

[Pepamami]

I wonder, if they release zen4 on AM4 socket, will it increase the demand >.>

 

[maxli86]

No, people want Zen 4 over Zen 3, because Zen 3 is slower, and very slow in the entry level tiers. Zen 3 at 65-watt is worse. Old technology N7 process instead of N5, and all those sorts of things.

Don't know where you get your information as it's all mess up.
AMD Zen architecture since introduction in 2017 have been competing with Intel.
Depend what you are using, Intel is still a better platform as not only games but most application are optimized for Intel.

AMD wise have been catching up these few years, 65 watt doesn't mean it is slow so again wrong info there.
65 watt TDP is the Thermal design power meaning how easy it can be cooled like using stock cooler.
Intel also have 65 watt TDP CPU, are these slow CPU no.

Both Intel and AMD CPU have different model, that doesn't mean entry level tier are bad and should avoid?
It depends what are you using, if it is a office PC do you need a Intel i9 125watt TDP for 24/7 PC just for editing document etc?
No, different CPU model example Ryzen 3 for normal use is fine.

Gaming wise Ryzen 5 and above will be recommend as different tier CPU have different core counts.
Ryzen 3 are quad core while Ryzen 5 are six core etc. while Intel CPU you have to check as 12th CPU design is different.
TDP should never be a part of consideration when buying a CPU but only when choosing a CPU cooler.
The way you put is as if you are talking about AMD Phenom VS AMD FX, back than the term AMD is very slow
is understandable.

I still have a working AMD Phenom II rig but it is too slow for today's standard.

 

[InVasMani]

NEED THAT $$$$$$$$$$$$$TACKED CACHE...

 

[Why_Me]

Ya, I'm actually right in the prime market spot to pitch a new CPU / MB to, and I looked at AMD's offerings...sorry, prices are just too high. From overpriced mainboards to having to move to overpriced DDR5 memory for another $300-500...no thanks. I'll likely be upgrading within the next 3-6 months but I'll pick up either a 5000 series AMD or an 11th gen Intel via ebay and be able to migrate my existing 32GB of DDR4 for a fraction of the cost to move to 7000 series AMD. Would love to move to x670e and a 7950X, and I can afford it, but it's just a bad buy given the pricing.

And just to add, here, this type of market rejection of the pricing scheme from AMD & mainboard partners...I'd love to see more of this in the GPU market with NVidia...$1600 for a 4090. L. O. L.

Wait for the Raptor Lake reviews later this week. B760 boards + Raptor Lake locked cpu's are due to be released after January and yes both Alder Lake and Raptor Lake support DDR4 and DDR5.

 

[Deleted member 177333]

Wait for the Raptor Lake reviews later this week. B760 boards + Raptor Lake locked cpu's are due to be released after January and yes both Alder Lake and Raptor Lake support DDR4 and DDR5.

Thanks.

 

[Tek-Check]

I wonder, if they release zen4 on AM4 socket, will it increase the demand >.>

Not going to happen. There are too many differences in architecture and technologies.
Perhaps they can offer 5900X 3D. That's all.

You can buy a 11900K for $220 new (last month sale), its hard to spend the money for Zen4 unless you can a content creator.

I wonder why 11900K, a proverbial oven, the last breath of 14nm+++, is that cheap? It might work for someone as one off purchase without any ability to upgrade.

 

[oobymach]

7 pages of discussion on this, may have been mentioned but AM5 literally JUST came out, we consumers are more aware I think now and are less willing to beta test new products until all the kinks are ironed out so if AM5 is doing poorly it's likely because AM4 still kicking ass and taking names.

How long did it take for the L3 cache fix for Ryzen 5000 series? 3 months or so after launch? I waited for that fix before upgrading to 5600x.

 

[Minus Infinity]

AM4 FOREVER

AM4EVER

Well AMD screwed up royally IMO. Not only are the platform costs much higher than they promised, people remember the fiasco of all new AM4 MB's when they released Zen, the cpu prices are too dear, especially 7600X and 7900X, they were caught with their pants down by Intel Raptor Lake pricing being largely unchanged and not 15-20% higher, they told us many v-cache models are coming are are going to be much faster, and launched with high prices knowing the world is entering a full blown recession. Sucked in.

I had all intentions of doing a new build based on a 7900X3D, but now I may update my old 1700X with a 13700K and Z690, H760 combo unless their are serious downward price adjustments by Q2 next year from AMD and MB makers.

Will they now repeat the mistakes with the RDNA3 cards. The cards are much cheaper to manufacture than Lovelace, but will they go for fat margins or hammer Nvidia on pricing. There is no reason prices should rise at all compared to RDNA2.

 

[wheresmycar]

"AMD Cuts Down Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" Production As Demand Drops Like a Rock"​

Am i the only one who sees this as a positive sign (for the consumer)? These are the headlines i've been looking for amongst "the tech market is generally in decline"

The only headline missing is "NVIDIA fell down the market trend line escalators and broke a toe nail.....4090's for $900 for everyone!!! yayyy.... oh, and 4070-12apples for $379, yippee ya yayyyyyy!!!"

Or am i being too optimistic with price drops across the board?

 

[Sabishii Hito]

AMD should have ditched PCI-e 5.0 on B650 and released them along with X670 on day 1, not to mention that everything bellow 7950X should have been $50 lower.
The other thing they could have done, was make only the B650E DDR5, while B650 should have stayed with DDR4.
Releasing 3D CPUs on day 1 would have helped as well.

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but the memory controller is on the CPUs and the 7000 series processors only support DDR5. The chipsets don't factor into the memory standard supported and haven't since the old school northbridge was moved onto the CPU die.

 

[HansRapad]

AMD big mistake is Launching 5800X3D
Should've never done that, it's too good to it's own good, now they can't push their new generation product
just like nvidia with their 1080 Ti,

Now if they launch 7000 X3D sometimes later, will the 7000X3D do the same thing again with 8000 series?

Unless they can launch x3D chip at launch, this will be thorn for them, not for us, customer is winning here, but for them if they want to make their next launch success, they need to plan the launch -_-

 

[Innsaei]

Very silly to price your motherboard that high just because it covers future generation of CPUs. Previously it has never been this manner, the thing is that memory usually is more rigid in pricing than the motherboards.
Now consumers wants to adopt your new CPU architecture and the cost of Mobo killing it. Crazy pricing, unbelievable.

 

[Tek-Check]

@Tek-Check from my understanding both X670 PROMs are identical. At least the ones I've taken photos of have the same identification written on them. The picture is a great way to show how things are split regardless. AM5 biggest blunder I think is not having a Gen5 link to the PCH.

Yes, Prom21 chipsets are identical. It was an effective solution to procure only one chip from AsMedia, as it's cheaper and it simplifies production process. B boards get one and X boards get two of those. There are several reasons why the chipset is not Gen5:

- AsMedia did not manage to prepare and validate such solution in time for board production
- it would have been even more expensive, another $20-30, due to PCIe Gen5 switch chip inside and more complex traces
- a total overkill for vast majority of mainstream boards and systems

I'd expect Gen5 upgrade on the chipset in the next gen, on B750 and X770, probably with Zen5. Lack of Gen5 link on the chipset does create a minor bottleneck, but I do not think it's a blunder. Most users will not need such throughput for years. Besides, those who do need more data traffic can buy boards with two M.2 Gen5 drives directly attached to CPU and get access to theoretical ~15.8 GB/s traffic.

Also, motherboard vendors can easily install PCIe 5.0 switch chip from CPU to both chipset. This would give full link of 128 Gbps that CPU offers, which is then split to 64 Gbps to each chipset's native speed. Quite elegant solution. C'mon mobo vendors, you can do this!

I think mobo vendors were more conservative with initial AM5 roll-out. There is a lot other things that new boards can improve. For example, no vendor has enabled DP 2.0/2.1 port from CPU at 40 Gbps via USB4. They installed Thunderbolt 4 chip instead and call it "USB4". Both Asus and Asrock. This chip supports DP 1.4. I do not even understand why is it that they do not call it TB4? There is a thunder logo on rear I/O. No certification?

AMD big mistake is Launching 5800X3D. Should've never done that, it's too good to it's own good, now they can't push their new generation product, just like nvidia with their 1080 Ti,

Now if they launch 7000 X3D sometimes later, will the 7000X3D do the same thing again with 8000 series? Unless they can launch x3D chip at launch, this will be thorn for them, not for us, customer is winning here, but for them if they want to make their next launch success, they need to plan the launch -_-

5800X 3D was, and is, a big success. AMD has introduced a second line of CPUs, specifically for gamers. Intel does not have such offer. They only have generic CPU with or without iGPU.
AMD has a new segmentation:
1. general CPU for productivity workloads that also happens to be great in gaming
2. 3D SKUs, specifically for gamers, with slightly less productivity, but gaming champion.

The public will need to learn to live with this new line of products. I agree that they could consider launching gerenal and 3D SKUs together in next gen, but that is not necessary now.

 

[Innsaei]

Really stupid, I was considering getting my Aunt a PC for her office and personal usage including family member usage whereby nieces and nephews can play some demanding games during visits and stays.
I had in mind to consider AMD AM5 for longevity and future proof, we factored in DDR5 cost and was kind of manageable. After seeing the cost of AM5 pricing, I was shocked! Ludicrous or outrage pricing for a mid to high end models.
Now I relegate my consideration to 12th Intel CPU instead and spare more for the GPU.
Come on man AMD, you shot yourself in the foot with outrages Mobo prices. Although I can afford AM5 mobo but seriously why should I? It has to be rationale spending. Would you drink, eat and binge from the hotel's mini fridge?

 

[Tek-Check]

Very silly to price your motherboard that high just because it covers future generation of CPUs. Previously it has never been this manner, the thing is that memory usually is more rigid in pricing than the motherboards.
Now consumers wants to adopt your new CPU architecture and the cost of Mobo killing it. Crazy pricing, unbelievable.

Tell them to produce motherboards with 4-layer PCB for PCIe 5.0 traces ;-)

Really stupid, I was considering getting my Aunt a PC for her office and personal usage including family member usage whereby nieces and nephews can play some demanding games during visits and stays.
I had in mind to consider AMD AM5 for longevity and future proof, we factored in DDR5 cost and was kind of manageable. After seeing the cost of AM5 pricing, I was shocked! Ludicrous or outrage pricing for a mid to high end models.
Now I relegate my consideration to 12th Intel CPU instead and spare more for the GPU.
Come on man AMD, you shot yourself in the foot with outrages Mobo prices. Although I can afford AM5 mobo but seriously why should I? It has to be rationale spending. Would you drink, eat and binge from the hotel's mini fridge?

Most expensive hotels have those mini fridges ;-)

 

[stimpy88]

If only they had listened to me and put a DDR4 mem controller on the die...

 

[mahirzukic2]

They need to increase prices like Intel does. People don't like to buy cheap stuff.

That's the thing, they did increase the prices. Just look at motherboards. Insane increases in prices.

Ya, I'm actually right in the prime market spot to pitch a new CPU / MB to, and I looked at AMD's offerings...sorry, prices are just too high. From overpriced mainboards to having to move to overpriced DDR5 memory for another $300-500...no thanks. I'll likely be upgrading within the next 3-6 months but I'll pick up either a 5000 series AMD or an 11th gen Intel via ebay and be able to migrate my existing 32GB of DDR4 for a fraction of the cost to move to 7000 series AMD. Would love to move to x670e and a 7950X, and I can afford it, but it's just a bad buy given the pricing.

And just to add, here, this type of market rejection of the pricing scheme from AMD & mainboard partners...I'd love to see more of this in the GPU market with NVidia...$1600 for a 4090. L. O. L.

I'm in the same boat as you buddy. I could easily afford the jump to the new platform, but I just can't justify the 1.5k splurge on it instead of more reasonable 0.8 - 1k.

As for the last part, it just shows what is kind of a common sense which most people obviously lack. When you vote with your wallet, it WORKS, and the companies take notice and do something about it.

I wonder, if they release zen4 on AM4 socket, will it increase the demand >.>

Oh, it most certainly would. As the main issue with Zen 4 is the platform cost and not necessarily the CPU cost.

 

[prtskg]

Till 2 months ago, AMD's production was constrained by substrate limited availability. I doubt much has changed in terms of substrate availability. So I guess they would just supply these CCDs in server oriented products, than use them in desktop at lower cost.
I don't expect AM5 motherboard prices to be as low as AM4. This time motherboard vendors have planned for 4years support from the beginning. With AM4 it felt like they're somehow managing it due to AMD's promise, market demand, people's hue and cry, Intel's improved performance, etc. The build quality is also better compared to most of the boards of AM4 time. I expect the prices to drop with time, but not at AM4 level.
The sale of 5000 series CPUs have increased since 7000 series release, especially 5800X3D. AM4 processors sell more than double of all other platforms combined if I remember correctly (mindfactory's data). But this isn't true for AM4 motherboards. I think motherboard vendors have taken into account this aspect too.

 

[Vario]

I don't think it is an issue with their product segmentation, just a broader market depression in demand for expensive electronics.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

They should have launched the X3D versions from the start.

 

[mahirzukic2]

Till 2 months ago, AMD's production was constrained by substrate limited availability. I doubt much has changed in terms of substrate availability. So I guess they would just supply these CCDs in server oriented products, than use them in desktop at lower cost.
I don't expect AM5 motherboard prices to be as low as AM4. This time motherboard vendors have planned for 4years support from the beginning. With AM4 it felt like they're somehow managing it due to AMD's promise, market demand, people's hue and cry, Intel's improved performance, etc. The build quality is also better compared to most of the boards of AM4 time. I expect the prices to drop with time, but not at AM4 level.
The sale of 5000 series CPUs have increased since 7000 series release, especially 5800X3D. AM4 processors sell more than double of all other platforms combined if I remember correctly (mindfactory's data). But this isn't true for AM4 motherboards. I think motherboard vendors have taken into account this aspect too.

As per this article here What are the Cost Considerations for 4-layer, 6-layer, and 8-layer PCB Designs?
Going from 4 layer to 8 layer PCB would increase the cost 70 - 90%.
I have used this site here https://www.allpcb.com/superior_quote.html which gave me a quote of

1. 29$/unit for 10k units of 500x300mm 4 layer boards
2. 58$/unit for 10k units of 500x300mm 8 layer boards

When I used the 305x244mm (which is actual ATX size spec) it gave me the following quotes:

1. 15$/unit for 10k units of 305x244mm 4 layer boards
2. 30$/unit for 10k units of 305x244mm 8 layer boards

and these numbers are in-line with the previous estimation of 70 - 90%. This happened to be 100% increase due to doubling of layers, so makes sense.
So you get an increase of 15$ when going from 4 to 8 layers per motherboard, and since this was a quote from a 3rd party, in case of in-house manufacturing, those increases would be even smaller than that.

Which brings us to the next question.
Did these motherboard makers started asking additional 200+ USD per board due to more layers in the board 8 vs 4 in AM4? Given that such an increase costs them at most 15$ per unit, but probably less than that.

NOBODY BUYS IT. Saying these boards cost more since they have more copper layers needed for signal integrity and for PCIe 5 is pure bullshlt. And they are being punished for it, like they should.

 

[Chrispy_]

Demand dropped like a rock because the motherboards were double the price anyone expected.

AMD don't operate in a vacuum, they have a viable competitor whose motherboards aren't priced obscenely. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to work out that people are choosing Alder Lake as the better-value option.

 

[prtskg]

Demand dropped like a rock because the motherboards were double the price anyone expected.

AMD don't operate in a vacuum, they have a viable competitor whose motherboards aren't priced obscenely. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to work out that people are choosing Alder Lake as the better-value option.

As per this article here What are the Cost Considerations for 4-layer, 6-layer, and 8-layer PCB Designs?
Going from 4 layer to 8 layer PCB would increase the cost 70 - 90%.
I have used this site here https://www.allpcb.com/superior_quote.html which gave me a quote of

1. 29$/unit for 10k units of 500x300mm 4 layer boards
2. 58$/unit for 10k units of 500x300mm 8 layer boards

When I used the 305x244mm (which is actual ATX size spec) it gave me the following quotes:

1. 15$/unit for 10k units of 305x244mm 4 layer boards
2. 30$/unit for 10k units of 305x244mm 8 layer boards

and these numbers are in-line with the previous estimation of 70 - 90%. This happened to be 100% increase due to doubling of layers, so makes sense.
So you get an increase of 15$ when going from 4 to 8 layers per motherboard, and since this was a quote from a 3rd party, in case of in-house manufacturing, those increases would be even smaller than that.

Which brings us to the next question.
Did these motherboard makers started asking additional 200+ USD per board due to more layers in the board 8 vs 4 in AM4? Given that such an increase costs them at most 15$ per unit, but probably less than that.

NOBODY BUYS IT. Saying these boards cost more since they have more copper layers needed for signal integrity and for PCIe 5 is pure bullshlt. And they are being punished for it, like they should.

You guys are not taking into consideration Intel development fund which Intel provides board developers. This helps with keeping cost low and maximizing profit. Since AM5 came out, Alderlake sale hasn't increased. People are waiting for Raptorlake or are buying 5000 series CPUs, especially 5800X3D (MF data). AM5 boards also have more memory for bios update this time compared to AM4.