Intel 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake" Desktop Processors Launched: +15% ST, +41% MT Uplift

[RandallFlagg]

The 13700k is plenty faster than the 12700k. Id personally go for that and an el cheapo z690

That is kind of my thought too, but then the DDR5 Z690s keep selling out and what's left is low stock levels at both Best Buy and Microcenter.

I don't want to buy one more than two weeks out from when Raptor launches, because local return policy is like 14-15 days. So, maybe next week.

I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing though. Boatloads of DDR4 versions are there, but I don't want that.

 

[fevgatos]

That is kind of my thought too, but then the DDR5 Z690s keep selling out and what's left is low stock levels at both Best Buy and Microcenter.

I don't want to buy one more than two weeks out from when Raptor launches, because local return policy is like 14-15 days. So, maybe next week.

I wonder how many people are thinking the same thing though. Boatloads of DDR4 versions are there, but I don't want that.

If you are going for el cheapo, z690 pro A is the way to go imo.

Considering you have a 10900k though, id skip this gen as well and go for meteorlake. Reason being, you need an expensive motherboard to run current high end DDR5 kits, and even these high end ddr5 kits arent anywhere near close to being end game. Next year 8k mhz ddr5 will be commonplace and I assume cheap mobos will be able to run them.

 

[RandallFlagg]

If you are going for el cheapo, z690 pro A is the way to go imo.

Considering you have a 10900k though, id skip this gen as well and go for meteorlake. Reason being, you need an expensive motherboard to run current high end DDR5 kits, and even these high end ddr5 kits arent anywhere near close to being end game. Next year 8k mhz ddr5 will be commonplace and I assume cheap mobos will be able to run them.

Naaah not going to skip. I'm a bit iffy on meteor lake.

That chip disaggregation thing with tiled GPU and tiled IO separated from the tiled Compute core I suspect will have some penalties, first gen and all. It may also be a lot more expensive, seems TSMC wants quite the pretty penny for chips made on its N4 nodes (N4 A16 2.4x more expensive than N5 A15).

All this tile stuff is really a way to counter the increasing cost of new nodes by improving yield. They're also going to be enabled to put a decent GPU on the chip via that tGPU, combined with rapidly increasing DDR5 speeds. In a single chip you're now paying for a CPU, fairly competent GPU, and most of your chipset. That's likely to come at quite a price tag.

Raptor Lake I think will be the last and best in a long line of 45 years of monolithic consumer CPUs. I bet this is going to be a 7 year keeper, especially after everyone figures out the new crap will cost twice as much.

 

[mahirzukic2]

Oh boy. I wish I were in your shoes It is still a good time to purchase some new PC stuff. I know, expensive but in the processor department it is not so bad and now you have some good stuff to choose from both camps.

I am in the same situation. I am thinking of probably waiting for the 7950x3D to come out and buy it. Until then the prices of DDR5 will have come down even more and cheaper B650 boards will be here with ironed out AGESA issues or some other issues. This would be my work horse for a long time.

 

[RandallFlagg]

If you are going for el cheapo, z690 pro A is the way to go imo.

Considering you have a 10900k though, id skip this gen as well and go for meteorlake. Reason being, you need an expensive motherboard to run current high end DDR5 kits, and even these high end ddr5 kits arent anywhere near close to being end game. Next year 8k mhz ddr5 will be commonplace and I assume cheap mobos will be able to run them.

I went ahead and ordered an open box at MC, Asus Z690 TUF D5 for $183. Added the 2 year MC replacement plan for $19 so no hassle if there is an issue, with that it was right at $200 + sales tax, still $60 less than unopened. The TUF is basically the same as a Prime Z690-A, less 2 power stages (14 vs 16), and plus wifi. Even uses the same BIOS patches.

Now, I only need a CPU. 11 more days to launch, and I have that Thu/Fri off from work

I am in the same situation. I am thinking of probably waiting for the 7950x3D to come out and buy it. Until then the prices of DDR5 will have come down even more and cheaper B650 boards will be here with ironed out AGESA issues or some other issues. This would be my work horse for a long time.

Might be careful about waiting too long in this environment. Inflation isn't licked by a long shot.

 

[mahirzukic2]

I went ahead and ordered an open box at MC, Asus Z690 TUF D5 for $183. Added the 2 year MC replacement plan for $19 so no hassle if there is an issue, with that it was right at $200 + sales tax, still $60 less than unopened. The TUF is basically the same as a Prime Z690-A, less 2 power stages (14 vs 16), and plus wifi. Even uses the same BIOS patches.

Now, I only need a CPU. 11 more days to launch, and I have that Thu/Fri off from work



Might be careful about waiting too long in this environment. Inflation isn't licked by a long shot.

View attachment 264754

Yeah, we have about the same kind of inflation here in Germany. Everyday stuff and groceries are about 50 - 60% more expensive compared to a two years ago.
But the way Zen 4 has been selling, it will only go down in price, as well as motherboards and RAM. 7950x3D might be about 50 - 100$ or € more. That would put it at around 800 - 900€.
I can live with that.

Since I have a brother in the US, I was contemplating having him buy the CPU + MOBO + RAM (might go without this) for example on newegg or microcenter or where ever they have it the cheapest and have him do the shipping to me overseas. Leave it somewhere to collect dust, afterwards put it in nondescript packaging and declare it for broken for parts so as to avoid the customs. I'd reimburse him of course.
I would save 30 - 40% this way. EUR is very weak nowadays compared to USD, on top of customs and taxes, all of which could be avoided.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Well...

But then there's this :

The Intel i5-13600K Beats AMD's Ryzen 7 7700X by 17% in Blender Benchmarks

Intel's Raptor Lake will hit the shelves by the 20th of October. While we still need to wait almost 10 days, these CPUs are currently being tested by

appuals.com

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Well...

View attachment 265072

But then there's this :

The Intel i5-13600K Beats AMD's Ryzen 7 7700X by 17% in Blender Benchmarks

Intel's Raptor Lake will hit the shelves by the 20th of October. While we still need to wait almost 10 days, these CPUs are currently being tested by

appuals.com

I can't see it going much lower than that.

That benchmark leak seems about where I thought it would fall. I don't think Zen 4 will be really interesting until the 3D cache versions drop (I say that as a Zen 4 owner).

 

[RandallFlagg]

I can't see it going much lower than that.

That benchmark leak seems about where I thought it would fall. I don't think Zen 4 will be really interesting until the 3D cache versions drop (I say that as a Zen 4 owner).

Well after doing some looking, that score is not entirely as impressive as it seems on the surface. 12700K was already faster in blender than 7700X. If you do the math based on the 12700K score here at TPU, 13600K winds up being a little faster than the 12700K. Most of that gain for the 13600K can be attributed to having 4 more e-cores and the 4% clock speed increases. Not that anyone actually using Blender for pro work is doing it on a CPU.

So what do you think of the 7700X?

Edit :

Well I pulled the trigger on that 12700KF.

With prime card discount + the 3% cashback, after tax I just got out the door with that 12700KF for $303.

A lot better than the $500+ I think the 13700K would have cost me. I can use the $200 on a GPU.

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

Well after doing some looking, that score is not entirely as impressive as it seems on the surface. 12700K was already faster in blender than 7700X. If you do the math based on the 12700K score here at TPU, 13600K winds up being a little faster than the 12700K. Most of that gain for the 13600K can be attributed to having 4 more e-cores and the 4% clock speed increases. Not that anyone actually using Blender for pro work is doing it on a CPU.

So what do you think of the 7700X?

After a little more than a week I've been trying to sum up my opinion on the 7700x. At this point I guess I can say it's fine. Nothing (positive or negative) about it has stood out. It's a solid improvement in performance over the 5000 series, essentially bringing it in line with Alder Lake.

It's been a mostly pain free experience on a new platform. I didn't run into any of the issues that some on here have alluded to (memory stability and AGESA problems). I'm not saying those aren't valid concerns, I just didn't run into anything. I bought an EXPO memory kit (6000 CL30) and while it wasn't a one-click setup exactly, it's been 100% stable after a couple of small tweaks.

Temperatures out of the box are what everyone says. I ended up bringing temps down a bit and boosting a few benchmarks scores with a -25 all core CO and left the CPU at the default 105W TDP/142W PPT - Essentially the same thing I did with Alder Lake (Adaptive vcore, with a negative offset).

The only reason I'd recommend going AM4 over Alder Lake/Raptor Lake is what the X3D versions could bring, but gaming performance was the deciding factor for me.

Edit :

Well I pulled the trigger on that 12700KF.

With prime card discount + the 3% cashback, after tax I just got out the door with that 12700KF for $303.

A lot better than the $500+ I think the 13700K would have cost me. I can use the $200 on a GPU.

Excellent choice and reasoning!

 

[mahirzukic2]

Well after doing some looking, that score is not entirely as impressive as it seems on the surface. 12700K was already faster in blender than 7700X. If you do the math based on the 12700K score here at TPU, 13600K winds up being a little faster than the 12700K. Most of that gain for the 13600K can be attributed to having 4 more e-cores and the 4% clock speed increases. Not that anyone actually using Blender for pro work is doing it on a CPU.

So what do you think of the 7700X?

Edit :

Well I pulled the trigger on that 12700KF.

With prime card discount + the 3% cashback, after tax I just got out the door with that 12700KF for $303.

A lot better than the $500+ I think the 13700K would have cost me. I can use the $200 on a GPU.

Wow 300$. That price can't be beaten. You got a very good deal. Enjoy it.

 

[fevgatos]

Well after doing some looking, that score is not entirely as impressive as it seems on the surface. 12700K was already faster in blender than 7700X. If you do the math based on the 12700K score here at TPU, 13600K winds up being a little faster than the 12700K. Most of that gain for the 13600K can be attributed to having 4 more e-cores and the 4% clock speed increases. Not that anyone actually using Blender for pro work is doing it on a CPU.

So what do you think of the 7700X?

Edit :

Well I pulled the trigger on that 12700KF.

With prime card discount + the 3% cashback, after tax I just got out the door with that 12700KF for $303.

A lot better than the $500+ I think the 13700K would have cost me. I can use the $200 on a GPU.

Τhe choice between 12700 and the 13600 is basically dependant on whether you believe game devs are going to support e cores on feature games or not. The 12700 generally speaking is the safer choice with it's 8 big cores, and if you got it for that price, my hat's off. Good choice

 

[RandallFlagg]

Wow 300$. That price can't be beaten. You got a very good deal. Enjoy it.

New vs old, and I just got started tweaking.

If the temps are any indicator, I scored a golden die. Having a hard time getting over 70F with a 240mm AIO.

+45% vs my OC'd 10850K so far. Single core score is better than what AMD said the 12900K would get on their Zen 4 release slides, and I'm using a $183 motherboard :

 

[mahirzukic2]

New vs old, and I just got started tweaking.

If the temps are any indicator, I scored a golden die. Having a hard time getting over 70F with a 240mm AIO.

+45% vs my OC'd 10850K so far. Single core score is better than what AMD said the 12900K would get on their Zen 4 release slides, and I'm using a $183 motherboard :

View attachment 266075

Awesome. I think those difference percentages are fudged.
Other than that, it looks very good.
Did you play with the voltage, rather under voltage in XTU? And the voltage curve and (negative) offset?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Awesome. I think those difference percentages are fudged.
Other than that, it looks very good.
Did you play with the voltage, rather under voltage in XTU? And the voltage curve and (negative) offset?

lol, not fudged. 1426/100% * 145% = 2067.7

When I posted that nothing was changed on voltages. In fact the only thing I did was adjust the per core clocks until it got unstable then back off 1 notch, and turn on XMP, that's it.

Since then I let the Asus AI automatic OC do it's thing and basically got the same result - 5.3Ghz / 5.2 / 5.1 / 5.0 for 2/ 4 / 6 / 8 p-cores It also raised BCLK to 100.25

 

[mahirzukic2]

lol, not fudged. 1426/100% * 145% = 2067.7

When I posted that nothing was changed on voltages. In fact the only thing I did was adjust the per core clocks until it got unstable then back off 1 notch, and turn on XMP, that's it.

Since then I let the Asus AI automatic OC do it's thing and basically got the same result - 5.3Ghz / 5.2 / 5.1 / 5.0 for 2/ 4 / 6 / 8 p-cores It also raised BCLK to 100.25


View attachment 266199

But that's the thing, 2067.7 / 1426 = 145%.
But the difference is (2067.7 - 1426) / 1426 = 45%.
I am being a bit pedantic here, but I had to when I saw the difference to be over 100%. I thought, that can't be.
And it wasn't.

On a side note, try to play with those voltage curves and offsets, you might dial in even better settings.
Another thing, by the time you sell your old processor and board, it will turn out that for a difference in 150 - 200$ you got 50% CPU score improvements, and certainly removed any CPU bottlenecks you might have had in some of the games (if you had them to begin with).

 

[RandallFlagg]

But that's the thing, 2067.7 / 1426 = 145%.
But the difference is (2067.7 - 1426) / 1426 = 45%.
I am being a bit pedantic here, but I had to when I saw the difference to be over 100%. I thought, that can't be.
And it wasn't.

On a side note, try to play with those voltage curves and offsets, you might dial in even better settings.
Another thing, by the time you sell your old processor and board, it will turn out that for a difference in 150 - 200$ you got 50% CPU score improvements, and certainly removed any CPU bottlenecks you might have had in some of the games (if you had them to begin with).

I will be tinkering with it extensively the next 4 days, especially memory OC.

I think you're right, I imagine I can get another 100Mhz out of it, but this is better than what I had hoped already given I'm +300Mhz above normal 1-2 core turbo. From what I've read and what I can see on Geekbench this is probably in the top 5% of 12700K/KF dies. They are usually crap compared to 12900K, like 50% of people can't go past 5.1Ghz.

So now I'm waiting for RDNA 3, or a big price drop on last gen GPUs in general, or both.

 

[mahirzukic2]

I have decided to forgo the AMD's 7950x and have ordered the 13700KF with MSI 690Z Pro-A DDR4 with 64GB (2x 32GB) Patriot Viper 4 Blackout DDR4-3600 DIMM CL18 ram with Arctic Liquid Freezer 360 with the 1700 socket bracket.
Should be around 850 euro instead of around 1500 eur for AMD's.
DAMN you AMD.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I have decided to forgo the AMD's 7950x and have ordered the 13700KF with MSI 690Z Pro-A DDR4 with 64GB (2x 32GB) Patriot Viper 4 Blackout DDR4-3600 DIMM CL18 ram with Arctic Liquid Freezer 360 with the 1700 socket bracket.
Should be around 850 euro instead of around 1500 eur for AMD's.
DAMN you AMD.

If it makes you feel better, I just ordered an AMD 6700 XT. Got tired of waiting/looking for the A770.

It does have blue lights to go with my Intel rig though.

 

[ARF]

I have decided to forgo the AMD's 7950x and have ordered the 13700KF with MSI 690Z Pro-A DDR4 with 64GB (2x 32GB) Patriot Viper 4 Blackout DDR4-3600 DIMM CL18 ram with Arctic Liquid Freezer 360 with the 1700 socket bracket.
Should be around 850 euro instead of around 1500 eur for AMD's.
DAMN you AMD.

Yes, AMD's wrong decisions will strike back at them.
Why didn't decide to make wider CPUs in lower TDPs?
24-core at 125-watt, 16-core at 105-watt, 12-core at 95-watt, 8-core at 65-watt? 8-core to be the new entry?
It is needed much more than the irrelevant "standards" that they chose to pursue (for whatever strange reason) such as PCIe 5.0 and DDR ,5 and that are totally worthless.

If it makes you feel better, I just ordered an AMD 6700 XT.

No, the wait continues. Navi 31, Navi 32 and Navi 33 are just around the corner now.
8 days to go and we will know more.

 

[THU31]

Why didn't decide to make wider CPUs in lower TDPs?
24-core at 125-watt, 16-core at 105-watt, 12-core at 95-watt, 8-core at 65-watt? 8-core to be the new entry?

Because they would lose in benchmark scores against Intel even more.

How many people would choose the X models if they could get cheaper ones with slightly less performance. And they could overclock them.
They did that with Zen 1 and 2, because they were behind Intel. Zen 3 put them at the top, so suddenly there was no need for non-X SKUs, until Alder Lake came out.
This is also why Intel has such good non-K SKUs - you cannot overclock them (for the most part). If you could push the 12400 past 5 Ghz, why would you buy anything higher for just gaming? Back in the day, the lowest tier SKU could always achieve the performance of the highest one after overclocking. No wonder they locked the multipliers over a decade ago.

AMD wanted to cash in quickly before Raptor Lake and they managed to do that. But now sales have drastically dropped, so they will have to respond.

We have to be grateful to AMD, because they are the reason we have such amazing CPUs right now. But none of those companies are good guys. They will only sacrifice profit when they have to catch up. And I guess you cannot really blame them for that.
AMD's main focus is on servers anyway.

 

[mahirzukic2]

If it makes you feel better, I just ordered an AMD 6700 XT. Got tired of waiting/looking for the A770.

It does have blue lights to go with my Intel rig though.

It doesn't make me feel any better, but it does make me laugh though, so it kinda does make me feel a little better.
Why in the God's name would you buy Intel A770? Are you crazy?

 

[RandallFlagg]

It doesn't make me feel any better, but it does make me laugh though, so it kinda does make me feel a little better.
Why in the God's name would you buy Intel A770? Are you crazy?

75% of that choice would be for the free software, actually.

 

[ARF]

Because they would lose in benchmark scores against Intel even more.

How do you know? A 24-core will be much faster than a heavily overclocked 16-core..

 

[THU31]

How do you know? A 24-core will be much faster than a heavily overclocked 16-core..

But a 24-core would have to be super expensive. Three chiplets on the newest process, it costs money. Yes, it would beat the 13900K, but it would cost twice as much.

They specifically optimized Zen 4 to reach those super high clocks so they could squeeze out the most performance at the lowest cost. That is also why the thermal target is so high.
Selling Zen 4 with low clocks on desktop would not be viable at all. Intel is on a very mature (an cheap) 10 nm process, which means they can be very aggressive with pricing. Just look at the 13600K, which beats the $400 7700X. How much would a 65 W 7700 have to cost to compete with Intel? $300? $250? Would they even make any profit doing that?