NVIDIA Cancels GeForce RTX 4080 12GB, To Relaunch it With a Different Name

[AusWolf]

What do you think will actually change now that they took it back? Theyll rename it to 4070 and sell it for the same price. WOW, huge win for the consumer right?

They won't be able to sell it for $900.

If I'm mistaken, and they actually do sell it for that price, then I'll agree with you that people are stupid for buying it (besides being disappointed by the human intellect for the Nth time).

They dont only hit nvidia. Amd does it, intel does it. Sure you can get down to the technicalities and claim its different cause nvidia changes the amount of cudas but is it really different? Is 10 % more cuda cores immoral but 10% more clockspeeds are fine?

Sorry, I edited my post a bit late, so I'll write it down again (my bad, really).

Nvidia is the only company I've ever seen to pull off a full launch of an entirely new generation without one single product based on a fully enabled die anywhere in the product stack. Why is that? If Intel can release the 12900K together with the 12700K and 12600K, if AMD can release the 7950X and 7700X together with the 7900X and 7600X (or the 6900XT together with the 6800 and 6800XT for that matter), then why can't Nvidia do the same?

 

[BSim500]

I have quite a few GPU's I would have liked to do my own tests with and share with the community. Been wanting to start my own channel to go with a site I've been working on but of course, without goods, I got no content. No content, can't get viewers. No viewers, can't get some kind of borrowed equipment to do further tests. Only way to get viewers is to do stupid videos where the videos front image has me with my mouth wide open in an "O" looking like I'm about to stick something Phallic into it.

I say go for it. You've certainly nailed the Youtube algorithm...

 

[N3M3515]

every "mistake" we see in Ada cards is planned ahead of time

Yep, with the 4000 series prices they were testing que waters.

Theyll rename it to 4070 and sell it for the same price.

They won't sell it for the same price, you know that right?

 

[wheresmycar]

Jokes aside: just read back the last page or two and you'll see the problem. People are happy to pay all the money on earth for whatever Nvidia shits out because "it's the new high-tech Nvidia flagship, mwahaha, not some crappy AMD knock-off, no no".

Disclaimer: it's not about the people who genuinely need an Nvidia feature, like CUDA. It's about people who would otherwise be perfectly fine with an AMD card, but would rather pay double for the Nvidia equal as a sort of cure for their inferiority complex. It's also about people who think lying to customers is acceptable as long as the product by its own merits is anywhere near usable.

oh trust me i get it. I've always remained silent in hopes of GPU prices returning back to some level of acceptance. I don't mind filling the pockets of others and supporting businesses who offer excellent products and more importantly keep us entertained. Happily filling those pockets essentially implies "reasonably healthy profit margins" opposed to "appallingly fatty-inflated and sadistically greedy margins".... the latter being where we are at the moment for the best of cards. I'm not interested in XX90 flagships Pocketpits.... but I did suspect the 4080 (or similarly performing 40X0) would go for around $800 (maybe i'm too optimistic). Seeing the $1200 price tag seriously through me off guard.

I have a feeling AMD's gonna go the same route... feeding off NVIDIAs perf/price ratios with a little trim in price. Simply not good enough for me. BEING A CRAZY IMPULSIVE BUYER... ive convinced myself not to buy anything above $800 which by all means is already a huge sum of money for a gaming card (esp @ 1440p).

 

[Sisyphus]

[...]My point is about naming and pricing which determines a product's position in the market and its (false) perception by the average consumer. Your point is about the product itself. Please read what I'm saying before you reply.

I will not defend ill-informed consumers. Should they buy a product for its name, it will teach them a lesson. Hopefully before they reach the age, to sign real estate contracts.

 

[AusWolf]

I will not defend ill-informed consumers. Should they buy a product for its name, it will teach them a lesson. Hopefully before they reach the age, to sign real estate contracts.

So someone who doesn't read IT media every day, just wants to play games without wanting to know everything about the technical bits is an ill-informed consumer and should be punished for their ignorance. Wow, what an attitude!

 

[Sisyphus]

What even is an informed consumer ?

I am an informed consumer. I am even able to vote . . .

Millions of people play video games, it's evident that most wont have technical knowledge about these things, that's why there are laws against false advertising in the first place.

So these people are unable, to inform themselves? Not even google or YouTube, where the basics are explained in simple language? Those who do not inform themselves have to live with the consequences. False advertising only occurs, if the product is advertised with a property that it does not have. You can name it, whatever you like.

So someone who doesn't read IT media every day, just wants to play games without wanting to know everything about the technical bits is an ill-informed consumer and should be punished for their ignorance. Wow, what an attitude!

You don't have to read IT media every day, to inform yourself about specs. 30 mins YouTube or google does the job. People who don't do their research before spending hundreds or thousands of dollars are punishing themselves.

 

[sepheronx]

I agree. That's why I will never buy a Tesla or a Ford Pinto

 

[AusWolf]

I am an informed consumer. I am even able to vote . . .

That's not a definition.

So these people are unable, to inform themselves? Not even google or YouTube, where the basics are explained in simple language? Those who do not inform themselves have to live with the consequences. False advertising only occurs, if the product is advertised with a property that it does not have. You can name it, whatever you like.

You don't have to read IT media every day, to inform yourself about specs. 30 mins YouTube or google does the job. People who don't do their research before spending hundreds or thousands of dollars are punishing themselves.

You cannot inform yourself about everything.

I read countless reviews about my car before I bought it, but not one of them mentioned that the back coil springs are prone to rust away and break in a few years time, or that the small brakes work so hard that I have to change brake fluid basically every year due to degradation. Is this my fault then?

I have a colleague who comes to me for PC advice from time to time because he knows nothing about them. But he knows a lot about fishing. I've never fished in my life. If I ever go fishing with him, I'll be completely clueless as to what to do or what equipment to get. I'm just not interested enough to spend time reading about something that I don't care about. Is this my fault as well?

TLDR: People have different hobbies and interests. A day is 24 hours for everyone. You can't seriously expect people to spend a chunk of their free time to read about something that they don't give a flying F about. That's what shop assistants are for. I'm sure you've bought stuff in your life that you didn't care to read reviews about. It's not your fault that you don't know everything about everything.

 

[JustBenching]

So someone who doesn't read IT media every day, just wants to play games without wanting to know everything about the technical bits is an ill-informed consumer and should be punished for their ignorance. Wow, what an attitude!

But what does an uninformed consumer lose if nvidia releases a 12gb 4080? I don't get it. He will buy whatever premade PC is on his budget or is suggested by the seller, whether it has a 4080 12gb, a 4080 16gb, or a renamed 4080 that's now called 4070.

 

[N3M3515]

But what does an uninformed consumer lose if nvidia releases a 12gb 4080?

If nvidia had released it at $900, he would have lost $300 if he bought it

 

[AusWolf]

But what does an uninformed consumer lose if nvidia releases a 12gb 4080? I don't get it. He will buy whatever premade PC is on his budget or is suggested by the seller, whether it has a 4080 12gb, a 4080 16gb, or a renamed 4080 that's now called 4070.

He doesn't know the difference, so let's lie to him and feed him some sh*t, 'cause that's what non-techies deserve. That's the attitude again!

If you build a PC for someone who doesn't know anything about PCs, do you ask them to pay you $1,000 and give them a $500 computer?

 

[JustBenching]

If nvidia had released it at $900, he would have lost $300 if he bought it

How so? Do you think the 600$ nvidia card will be equal / faster than the 900$ 4080 12gb?

He doesn't know the difference, so let's lie to him and feed him some sh*t, 'cause that's what non-techies deserve. That's the attitude again!

If you build a PC for someone who doesn't know anything about PCs, do you ask them to pay you $1,000 and give them a $500 computer?

There is no lying. There is a card for 1200$ (the 4080 16gb) and a card for 900$ (the 12gb). There is no lying involved, an uninformed consumer will buy whatever is on his budget and the seller suggests.

Again, im not saying it's a great decision to name them both 4080, but I don't see it as a huge issue anyways. They could have named it 4099Ti for all I care, doesn't really matter.

 

[AusWolf]

How so? Do you think the 600$ nvidia card will be equal / faster than the 900$ 4080 12gb?

I think the point was that the 4080 12 GB isn't worth $900 no matter how hard Nvidia pushes it.

There is no lying. There is a card for 1200$ (the 4080 16gb) and a card for 900$ (the 12gb). There is no lying involved, an uninformed consumer will buy whatever is on his budget and the seller suggests.

Again, im not saying it's a great decision to name them both 4080, but I don't see it as a huge issue anyways. They could have named it 4099Ti for all I care, doesn't really matter.

You can't imagine how much the name of the product matters in terms of its marketability towards non-tech oriented consumers (aka. average gamers). Higher number = better = more expensive. Maybe it doesn't work like that for you and me, but it does for most people.

 

[Dirt Chip]

He doesn't know the difference, so let's lie to him and feed him some sh*t, 'cause that's what non-techies deserve. That's the attitude again!

If you build a PC for someone who doesn't know anything about PCs, do you ask them to pay you $1,000 and give them a $500 computer?

As long as you up-front with all info and not laying about it, than basically I see no real problem.
NV offer a product, all info about it is available publicly and they put a price tag on it.
You are free to compere and choose with other similar product and decide if it is good for you or not. If yes- pay.

Unless you show that NV made falls advertisements than all responsibility fall on the consumer.

 

[AusWolf]

As long as you up-front with all info and not laying about it, than basically I see no real problem.
NV offer a product, all info about it is available publicly and put a price tag.
You are free to compere and choose with other similar product and decide if it is good for you or not. If yes- pay.

Unless you show that NV made falls advertisements than all responsibility fall on the consumer.

What info is available? The number of CUDA cores? That's really helpful for someone who doesn't know what a CUDA core is. Heck, Nvidia confused even enthusiasts when they changed what the term means in the Ampere generation. Even Ampere vs. pre-Ampere CUDA cores aren't the same. If a non-tech oriented person read what I just wrote about in the last two lines, they'd have no idea what I just said, just like they'd have no idea looking at Nvidia's web page (the rest of which is pure marketing).

 

[JustBenching]

What info is available? The number of CUDA cores? That's really helpful for someone who doesn't know what a CUDA core is. Heck, Nvidia confused even enthusiasts when they changed what the term means in the Ampere generation. Even Ampere vs. pre-Ampere CUDA cores aren't the same. If a non-tech oriented person read what I just wrote about in the last two lines, they'd have no idea what I just said, just like they'd have no idea looking at Nvidia's web page (the rest of which is pure marketing).

Well, okay then, let's talk about amd. There is an amd graph flying around about how better value their products are. No where in that graph does it mention how terrible they are on RT. You don't think that's also misleading - comparing a 6900xt to a 3080ti (or a 3090 don't remember). Imagine the poor guy buying a 3090 equivalent GPU (or so he thought) and tries to play cyberpunk - only to realize he basically bought a 3060 equivalent product. So if every company is trying to mislead you, what's the solution? Not buying nvidia products isn't a solution, since amd is also misleading.

Especially nowadays, you cannot make any decision if you don't see a review, cause gpus arent all about raster anymore. There are so many things on top like RT / DLSS / FSR and other stuff to take into account, no matter if nvidia or amd are trying or not to mislead you, you need to do some research regardless

 

[Dirt Chip]

What info is available? The number of CUDA cores? That's really helpful for someone who doesn't know what a CUDA core is. Heck, Nvidia confused even enthusiasts when they changed what the term means in the Ampere generation. Even Ampere vs. pre-Ampere CUDA cores aren't the same. If a non-tech oriented person read what I just wrote about in the last two lines, they'd have no idea what I just said, just like they'd have no idea looking at Nvidia's web page.

Spec is there if you want it, but it`s mostly irrelevant for the reasons you mentioned.
You have TPU and other sites that compere show all kinds of metrics.
If you, as a computer user, don't do even the basic search on the internet before you buy hundreds-1000+ of dollars product than the problem is yours, clean and simple.

You can argue that NV is "unfair" with it`s naming but this is where you need to better look what's right for you.
If NV will overly miss-name it`s product than in the end they will suffer big time and ultimately destroy it`s own GeForce brand name.

 

[AusWolf]

Well, okay then, let's talk about amd. There is an amd graph flying around about how better value their products are. No where in that graph does it mention how terrible they are on RT. You don't think that's also misleading - comparing a 6900xt to a 3080ti (or a 3090 don't remember). Imagine the poor guy buying a 3090 equivalent GPU (or so he thought) and tries to play cyberpunk - only to realize he basically bought a 3060 equivalent product. So if every company is trying to mislead you, what's the solution? Not buying nvidia products isn't a solution, since amd is also misleading.

Yes, it is misleading. I wasn't defending AMD on their bullshit, I was only calling out Nvidia on theirs. Although, in AMD's defence is the fact that a higher numbered product is actually better than a lower numbered one within their own product stack, and there aren't two different products with the same number / designation.

Especially nowadays, you cannot make any decision if you don't see a review, cause gpus arent all about raster anymore. There are so many things on top like RT / DLSS / FSR and other stuff to take into account, no matter if nvidia or amd are trying or not to mislead you, you need to do some research regardless

That's true, but not everybody knows that. I agree that some form of knowledge is necessary for a good decision, but I still disagree that cheating those who don't do the research is right.

Spec is there if you want it, but it`s mostly irrelevant for the reasons you mentioned.
You have TPU and other sites that compere show all kinds of metrics.
If you, as a computer user, don't do even the basic search on the internet before you buy hundreds-1000+ of dollars product than the problem is yours, clean and simple.

You can argue that NV is "unfair" with it`s naming but this is where you need to better look what's right for you.
If NV will overly miss-name it`s product than in the end they will suffer big time and ultimately destroy it`s own GeForce brand name.

That's probably why they backed off the two vastly different 4080s - which I'm glad for.

 

[Dirt Chip]

I for once would be happy to see "GeForce" brand destroyed and replaced. Also, NV has way too much confidence. We need them to be more humble in order to get proper performance with sane price.

#medreaming

 

[N3M3515]

No where in that graph does it mention how terrible they are on RT

Yeah because that 5% of games with RT are so important. RT is irrelevant for the majority of people until it is someting almost everygame has, hell i don't play even 1 game that supports RT.

 

[JustBenching]

Yeah because that 5% of games with RT are so important. RT is irrelevant for the majority of people until it is someting almost everygame has, hell i don't play even 1 game that supports RT.

10% of games require a high end graphics card. If 5% of games have rt, that means that 50% of games that require a high end gpu have rt. Thats a huge percentage.

High end gpus are irrelevant for the majority of people, but the minority that buys 800 to 2k $ gpus cares about it. Sales tell you as much

 

[N3M3515]

but the minority that buys 800 to 2k $ gpus cares about it

2k sure, 800 don't think so. I tend to believe people that buy only nvidia do it for mindshare and "prestige", or professionals for work in the case of the halo gpus. Also, RT games are not the only games that need expensive gpus. So that "huge" percentage is not that huge after all. Nvidia CEO has all the reasons to PUSH rt, since he spent a huge amount of money developing it and wanted to roi in advance, when said products could not use that technology (like 3 games when it started, and even those 3 could not be played because of the performance hit). Now with the 4000 series is that RT is STARTING to be important because you can play it without any upscaling, and there are more games, although not many to make it the most relevant benchmark. Most relevant benchmark still is raster.

 

[Sisyphus]

That's not a definition.
You cannot inform yourself about everything.

Nobody can.

I read countless reviews about my car before I bought it, but not one of them mentioned that the back coil springs are prone to rust away and break in a few years time, or that the small brakes work so hard that I have to change brake fluid basically every year due to degradation. Is this my fault then?

Your example is not related to the previous discussion. The car wasn't bought because of the name, neither it was renamed. A new name would not have changed the problem here either. In any case, you bear the consequences for your purchase decision, regardless of how well you informed yourself beforehand. The better informed you are, the lower the probability of making a bad purchase. The canceled rtx 4080 12 GB proves me right.

I have a colleague who comes to me for PC advice from time to time because he knows nothing about them. But he knows a lot about fishing. I've never fished in my life. If I ever go fishing with him, I'll be completely clueless as to what to do or what equipment to get. I'm just not interested enough to spend time reading about something that I don't care about. Is this my fault as well?
TLDR: People have different hobbies and interests. A day is 24 hours for everyone. You can't seriously expect people to spend a chunk of their free time to read about something that they don't give a flying F about. That's what shop assistants are for. I'm sure you've bought stuff in your life that you didn't care to read reviews about. It's not your fault that you don't know everything about everything.

I understand your point of view. You are starting from moral imperatives. The seller should advise correctly, the manufacturer should choose understandable product names, advertising should not exaggerate. I suppose it's better to control than to trust. There are different ways to do this. Get multiple opinions from different sellers or pay a professional you trust. In any case, you should learn the basics. If you spend large sums on a product without getting information or obtaining professional, independent advice, you have a good chance of being disadvantaged or making a bad purchase.
And yes, I bought a lot of stuff during my life, bad informed, later regretted the purchase. I learned from it.