RTX 4090 + Ryzen 9 7900x build: need help with case & cooling

[Psyringe]

Hi! I'm in the process of planning my new PC build. It will be a high-end gaming PC and I have most of the components nailed down (though I'm always open to suggestions if someone thinks there are better options). However, I need help selecting a proper case and planning my cooling solution.

1. The Basics:
BUDGET: 5-6000 € (Germany), including the monitor. I'm guessing it would be a $5000 build in the US
PURPOSE: 4K/144Hz gaming PC that can also handle relatively high amounts of web/office tasks on the side (e.g. having 40 script-heavy browser tabs open)
OVERCLOCK?: No overclocking, no RGB (if components have it, I'll turn it off)
ITEMS I HAVE: 12 TB HDD
ITEMS I NEED: see below

2. The Main Problems: Case & Cooling
The goal is to have a high-end gaming PC that is compatible with a huge library of games from the 80s to now and well into the future. It should run reliably and with minimal maintenance for a long time (I will pass it on to family members after a few years, so a total lifetime of 10+ years is not out of the question).

To achieve the desired performance, I selected a 4090 GPU and a Ryzen 9 7900x CPU, the latter of which I'll probably put into Eco mode since the impact on gaming is small to negligible. Still, these parts need proper cooling. Due to the goals of reliable long-term duty and low maintenance, I do not want to use liquid cooling. The selected air cooler can dissipate 250W, which (if I understand correctly) should suffice for a 7900x, especially in eco mode. However, I'm guessing that I'll need to ensure a high amount of airflow, and I have no experience with that.

The situation gets more complicated due to 2 details:
1. The PC will be standing right next to our bed, and my lady sometimes sleeps while I'm gaming. So I have to keep the noise levels low. I'm considering an insulated case, but am unsure if that will provide the required cooling. That's where I definitely need help from someone with experience in airflow.
2. In order to maintain compatibility, I would like to keep a 5.25 optical drive in the case. I noticed that this restricts the selection of cases quite a bit. If there is no other option, using an external drive could be a solution, but I'm trying to prevent that.

3. Current list of planned components:
Feel free to suggest better options. At this point, even radical changes are still possible.

CPU​	AMD Ryzen 9 7900X​
Cooling​	be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4​
Mainboard​	MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WIFI​
RAM​	Corsair Vengeance grey DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR5-6000, CL36-36-36-76​
System SSD​	Western Digital WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe SSD 4TB, M.2​
Data SSD​	(to be added later)​
Data HDD​	Toshiba 12 TB already present, bigger 2nd HDD to be added later, not part of current budget​
Optical Drive​	Hitachi-LG Data Storage GH24NSD5 black, SATA​
GPU​	MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Suprim X 24G​
PSU​	be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1000W ATX 2.51​
Case​	Fractal Design Define 7 XL Black Solid​
Monitor​	Gigabyte Aorus FV43U​
Mount​	NewStar NM-D775BLACKPLUS with PureMounts Universal VESA Adapter VESA 50 x 50 to 200 x 200​
​	​

Any comments and suggestions are welcome!

 

[ir_cow]

7950X 90Watt ECO mode basically matches the 5950X . I don't know about the 7900X, but I assume it will be good as well.

Still working on the benchmarks, but Forza5 is a memory sensitive game and it seems Zen4 just doesn't care what freq the ram is at. So thats good.

 

[Psyringe]

Thanks for the reply!

7950X 90Watt ECO mode basically matches the 5950X . I don't know about the 7900X, but I assume it will be good as well.

7950x eco matches matches the 5950x in power draw, but should be able to do more work due to the advances in architecture in process node, right?

Would be great to have more benchmarks for eco mode, but I understand that this is not a priority, given that with all the new releases. every tester has probably been on several weeks of overtime already, just to get the basics done. But I think eco mode testing would be very well received at least here in Europe, where electricity bills are already skyrocketing and may get worse for at least one more year. No one knows how this will develop further (it depends on the very volatile geopolitical situation), but eco mode gives us the option to save a few bucks when necessary, but also to enjoy the CPU's full power if/when the crisis is over.

Still working on the benchmarks, but Forza5 is a memory sensitive game and it seems Zen4 just doesn't care what freq the ram is at. So thats good.

Interesting, good to know! And indeed ... the results are so close that it even took me a while to realize that I'm looking at a bar graph.

 

[ir_cow]

7950x eco matches matches the 5950x in power draw, but should be able to do more work due to the advances in architecture in process node, right?

I don't know the 5950X power draw is, but 90W ECHO mode, really is 90 Watts.

Interesting, good to know! And indeed ... the results are so close that it even took me a while to realize that I'm looking at a bar graph.

Yeah its far from done but you can see 5200 CL38 vs super fast 6000 CL30 and its about the same. Now this is only one game, but it has been a title that is memory sensitive for Intel and previous AMD.

 

[Cynelit]

Hello Psyringe,

the parts look very good, looks like you've invested some quality time =).
If you are going for gaming PC I think 7700X is the way to go at the moment - since AM5 platform will last some time you can invest in a even better gaming CPU later on - with 3D V-cache. To be honest I would wait for these AMD 3D V-cache CPUs to be released.

Since you want optical drive and silent PC I would opt for a airflow focused case because it will bring the temperatures down and therefore your fans in the case won't need as much work to do to cool everything. With such high power draw components it will surely result in a quieter system than with the closed case.
The only case that comes to mind with optical drive is: Fractal Design Pop XL Air or even the non-XL model.

Have you ever had a monitor of this size? 43" monitor seems huge, I hope your room is big enough, it will brighten the room as well =).

Other than that good luck. Would love to see some pics once the build is complete too!

 

[Psyringe]

the parts look very good, looks like you've invested some quality time =).

Yeah, I'm the kind of person who wants to understand every little detail of the product they are buying, especially if it all amounts to a major expense.

If you are going for gaming PC I think 7700X is the way to go at the moment - since AM5 platform will last some time you can invest in a even better gaming CPU later on - with 3D V-cache. To be honest I would wait for these AMD 3D V-cache CPUs to be released.

Yep. I've done a lot more research in the meantime, and I've switched to the 7700x already. And I agree that the upcoming 7xxx3D CPU will probably be the best gaming CPU in this generation. If it were available right now, I'd get it. But on the other hand, I don't think that the performance delta for my usecase (4K/144Hz gaming) will be large enough to wait 3-6 more months.

In Steve Walton's 41-games test, the 5800x3D brought, on average, 3% more fps in 4K gaming compared to the 5800x. If the 7xxx3D ends up in the same ballpark (3% fps gains over the 7700x), then that would be nice to have, but not worth waiting (imho).

Of course I could be wrong, since other parameters in our systems have changed too. The 4090 leaves more room for games to become CPU-bound than the 30-series did. But that's one reason why I'll most probably do an AMD build. I want to keep that upgrade path open, just in case.

Since you want optical drive and silent PC I would opt for a airflow focused case because it will bring the temperatures down and therefore your fans in the case won't need as much work to do to cool everything. With such high power draw components it will surely result in a quieter system than with the closed case.
The only case that comes to mind with optical drive is: Fractal Design Pop XL Air or even the non-XL model.

Pretty much everyone with whom I discussed the build, recommended that I should just use an external drive. At first I didn't want to. But when I discussed that option with my lady, her eyes immediately lit up and she said: "Hey, then we can swap it, and I could use it too!" (We had to disconnect her internal DVD drive due to a lack of SATA ports.) That settled it.

I got the Fractal Torrent recommended to me as "the" airflow case, and after doing more research, I really like the idea behind it. Only problem is that it apparently gets really load when the fans ramp up fully. But some users with a similar system reported that the airflow in that case is so good, they can leave the fans at 40% most of the time - the CPU still gets enough cooling unless they really push it. I'm willing to try this, and if I do so, I'll definitely report back.

Have you ever had a monitor of this size? 43" monitor seems huge, I hope your room is big enough, it will brighten the room as well =).

The biggest monitor I've had so far, is the 28'' screen I'm currently looking at, But I simulated the 43'' screen with cardboard, and due to the way it will be mounted (extendable arm), I could facilitate a viewing distance of up to 2.5m if I wanted to. I don't think I will, though. I'm a very immersion-oriented and not a very competitive gamer. So the main advantage of a huge screen (better immersion) should be pretty big for me, whereas the main disadvantage (not being able to see important UI info at a glance and react quickly) probably won't hit me that hard.

The extendable arm gives some interesting other options too, like putting the screen in portrait mode and looking down on it, while angling it a little so that the far end is higher. That should be just the right way to play Pinball FX3!

Other than that good luck. Would love to see some pics once the build is complete too!

I'll definitely try to provide some pictures! Will take a while though. My build plan is almost finished, but it looks like I'll have to wait for some of the parts to become available again.

 

[Cynelit]

Yeah, I'm the kind of person who wants to understand every little detail of the product they are buying, especially if it all amounts to a major expense.


Yep. I've done a lot more research in the meantime, and I've switched to the 7700x already. And I agree that the upcoming 7xxx3D CPU will probably be the best gaming CPU in this generation. If it were available right now, I'd get it. But on the other hand, I don't think that the performance delta for my usecase (4K/144Hz gaming) will be large enough to wait 3-6 more months.

In Steve Walton's 41-games test, the 5800x3D brought, on average, 3% more fps in 4K gaming compared to the 5800x. If the 7xxx3D ends up in the same ballpark (3% fps gains over the 7700x), then that would be nice to have, but not worth waiting (imho).

Of course I could be wrong, since other parameters in our systems have changed too. The 4090 leaves more room for games to become CPU-bound than the 30-series did. But that's one reason why I'll most probably do an AMD build. I want to keep that upgrade path open, just in case.

So 7700x is a better bet since it's cheaper and better at gaming + you will go with 3D v-cache later on anyway?

Pretty much everyone with whom I discussed the build, recommended that I should just use an external drive. At first I didn't want to. But when I discussed that option with my lady, her eyes immediately lit up and she said: "Hey, then we can swap it, and I could use it too!" (We had to disconnect her internal DVD drive due to a lack of SATA ports.) That settled it.

I got the Fractal Torrent recommended to me as "the" airflow case, and after doing more research, I really like the idea behind it. Only problem is that it apparently gets really load when the fans ramp up fully. But some users with a similar system reported that the airflow in that case is so good, they can leave the fans at 40% most of the time - the CPU still gets enough cooling unless they really push it. I'm willing to try this, and if I do so, I'll definitely report back.

Awesome! I would suggest the same case (Torrent) or Lancool III if you like it, I personally don't . You can keep fans on lower rpm and you will still have way more airflow than in the Define 7 case, which means it will be quieter.

The biggest monitor I've had so far, is the 28'' screen I'm currently looking at, But I simulated the 43'' screen with cardboard, and due to the way it will be mounted (extendable arm), I could facilitate a viewing distance of up to 2.5m if I wanted to. I don't think I will, though. I'm a very immersion-oriented and not a very competitive gamer. So the main advantage of a huge screen (better immersion) should be pretty big for me, whereas the main disadvantage (not being able to see important UI info at a glance and react quickly) probably won't hit me that hard.

The extendable arm gives some interesting other options too, like putting the screen in portrait mode and looking down on it, while angling it a little so that the far end is higher. That should be just the right way to play Pinball FX3!


I'll definitely try to provide some pictures! Will take a while though. My build plan is almost finished, but it looks like I'll have to wait for some of the parts to become available again.

Looks like you got it all figured it out! I would suggest an additional 140 mm fan on the back of the Torrent.
Can't wait to see the pics!
Enjoy the build if you are will be doing it yourself =)

EDIT:

For searching for parts https://geizhals.de/ is a great website =)

 

[Psyringe]

Btw, here's the Googlesheet with the current state of my planning:
PC Build Plan 2022

There's too much text in there to ask for anyone to read it and comment, but since it did help me to order the information in that way, I thought it might help someone else too, in case someone wants to do a similar build. The sheet lists my goals with this build, my budget, my currently favored components, my thoughts about alternatives with pros and cons, and a price comparison across 6 popular German shops. All products have links to their official sites. (I may have gone a little overboard, but I had fun doing it. )

 

[Ruru]

Custom loop is the only thing I'd consider for those toasters.

 

[Cynelit]

Btw, here's the Googlesheet with the current state of my planning:
PC Build Plan 2022

There's too much text in there to ask for anyone to read it and comment, but since it did help me to order the information in that way, I thought it might help someone else too, in case someone wants to do a similar build. The sheet lists my goals with this build, my budget, my currently favored components, my thoughts about alternatives with pros and cons, and a price comparison across 6 popular German shops. All products have links to their official sites. (I may have gone a little overboard, but I had fun doing it. )

I have looked at it. You have done your research very well - I mostly keep these things i've learned over the years in my aging memory .

D15 is slightly better than Dark Rock Pro 4 as you figured it out yourself at the cost of some extra noise (still very silent). I have heard D16 is on the way next year: https://noctua.at/en/product-roadmap

 

[Psyringe]

So 7700x is a better bet since it's cheaper and better at gaming + you will go with 3D v-cache later on anyway?

I don't expect the 7xxx3D to be that much better than the 7700x to justify upgrading so soon, but I want to keep that upgrade path open just in case. The 9xxx3D (if we get one) might be an interesting option though (but my crystal ball gets all foggy at that point).

Basically, the situation is this: I'm currently on an Ivy Bridge PC (yes, they still exist ). I've wanted to upgrade to a 4K gaming rig ever since I had enough money to do so, which was 4 years ago. I watched the RTX 20 series reveal live and full of anticipation ... and quickly realized that I'd have to postpone my build. The 20 series was nowhere near the performance level that I had hoped for, it went in a totally different direction. I bought a GTX 1660 instead and kept gaming on my antique PC (which went surprisingly well, considering the age of that machine).

Two years later, the RTX 30 series looked like an improvement, but with its mediocre 8mm process, it still wouldn't have given me the experience that I wanted. So I waited another 2 years. And now, with the 4090, the experience that I've waited 4 years for (and had money at the bank for during all that time) is finally in my grasp. At this point, the prospect of bumbling along for another 6 months on my current rig is kind of ... how do I put it ... unappealing?

So I don't really want to wait for the 7xxx3D, and I also don't actually expect it to be that much better for my usecase, but I generally find the concept of these 3D chips very interesting, and want to keep the option to get one later.

Enjoy the build if you are will be doing it yourself =)

I originally planned to, but I'll probably let the shop that I buy the parts at do it. I haven't built a PC for several years and I'm not that confident with regard to the cooler and cable management. And I realized that for a 5500+€ PC, spending 100€ on assembly actually looks pretty cheap. Though I agree that it's much less exciting than DIY.

Custom loop is the only thing I'd consider for those toasters.

Fair point. It would (if done right) definitely provide better cooling than even the best air cooler. But I'm just not comfortable with the idea of letting water circulate through my PC. The potential damage in case of failure seems pretty high.

I also want this PC to be pretty much maintenance-free. I know from experience that a good air cooler can run almost 24/7 for 6-10 years without ever touching it. With liquid cooling, I keep hearing about having to refill the tank every few years, and pumps clogging up. So for the long-term usage scenario I'm after, I think air cooling is the better fit.

 

[Zach_01]

7950x eco matches matches the 5950x in power draw, but should be able to do more work due to the advances in architecture in process node, right?

Would be great to have more benchmarks for eco mode, but I understand that this is not a priority, given that with all the new releases. every tester has probably been on several weeks of overtime already, just to get the basics done. But I think eco mode testing would be very well received at least here in Europe, where electricity bills are already skyrocketing and may get worse for at least one more year. No one knows how this will develop further (it depends on the very volatile geopolitical situation), but eco mode gives us the option to save a few bucks when necessary, but also to enjoy the CPU's full power if/when the crisis is over.


Interesting, good to know! And indeed ... the results are so close that it even took me a while to realize that I'm looking at a bar graph.

What he meant is that 7590X (ECO ~90W) matched the 5950X (Stock ~140W) in performance. Of course 7950X will perform better on the same ~140W.

Of course ECO mode is an option for any CPU (AMD/Intel).
Lately I'm using the 5900X in ECO 88W (142W stock) and I didnt notice any performance loss at all for my usage.
Gaming, browsing (35~40tabs) + 3~4 VM emulators).

Power saving and better thermals.

Both AMD and Intel are pushing their products to the limit, outside of efficiency, for competition/benchmark scores.

 

[Psyringe]

Hi!

A few days ago, I fetched my brand-new rig from the vendor (I let them build it this time, because the service cost was pretty much negligible in the context of the total expense). These are the components that I eventually went with:

Type:	Product:
Monitor:	Gigabyte Aorus FV43U
GPU:	MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Suprim X
CPU:	AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Cooling:	Noctua NH-D15
Mainboard:	MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WIFI
RAM:	Trident Z5 Neo, DDR5-6000, CL30, AMD EXPO - 32 GB Dual-Kit, Schwarz
System SSD:	Western Digital WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe SSD 4TB, M.2
PSU:	MSI MPG A1000G ATX 3.0
Case:	Fractal Design Torrent Black Solid

So far, everything is working well. If anyone has questions about it or would like me to test its performance under specific conditions, please feel free to ask.

 

[phanbuey]

congrats man enjoy the rig!

 

[Cynelit]

Hi!

A few days ago, I fetched my brand-new rig from the vendor (I let them build it this time, because the service cost was pretty much negligible in the context of the total expense). These are the components that I eventually went with:

Type:	Product:
Monitor:	Gigabyte Aorus FV43U
GPU:	MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Suprim X
CPU:	AMD Ryzen 7 7700X
Cooling:	Noctua NH-D15
Mainboard:	MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WIFI
RAM:	Trident Z5 Neo, DDR5-6000, CL30, AMD EXPO - 32 GB Dual-Kit, Schwarz
System SSD:	Western Digital WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe SSD 4TB, M.2
PSU:	MSI MPG A1000G ATX 3.0
Case:	Fractal Design Torrent Black Solid

So far, everything is working well. If anyone has questions about it or would like me to test its performance under specific conditions, please feel free to ask.

Congrats on the build! Great picks.
If I recall some pictures are in order?