RTX 4000 series burning cables thread

[The red spirit]

Thread about new RTX cards burning cables, which media warned us about and so it begins:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/yc6g3u

 

[igralec84]

For once i'm glad i'm not an early adopter.
Wonder how many of such cases will come down to it being an overly bent cable though. Vertical mount or 90 degree adapters seem to be the way to go.

 

[GerKNG]

running three 8 Pins slightly "out of spec" would have been much safer than this garbage.

 

[Zach_01]

Does any one know the difference between the 2 connectors below?

The one is 12-pin and the other is 12+4-pin.
There is a reason why the +4-pin(data) exists and its crucial for preventing this kind of burn happening.
The adaptors cant all be high quality(?) and bending cables also can lead to this.

Conclusion: RTX4090 (at least) needs an ATX3.0 PSU and its not about the max power but about the communication between GPU and PSU.
Adaptors with an ATX2.0 PSU are potentially unsafe

 

[GerKNG]

what a well thought out product...
make it more complex than ever and worse in every way possible... GJ Jensen.

 

[Vya Domus]

Not surprised, I saw a meme with a 4090 connected to a PSU through a fistful of cables and I was thinking to myself "There is no way that's not going to end terribly wrong for someone out there".

 

[Fleurious]

Seriously! I wonder how long until rigid 90degree adaptors show up for people that don’t have cases that double as cedar chests for storing winter clothes.

I‘d be curious to see if I could even fit a founders edition in my Meshify 2 Compact and get the required clearance. I’m positive i’m out of luck for some the aftermarket 4090s

 

[Chrispy_]

Conclusion: RTX4090 (at least) needs an ATX3.0 PSU and its not about the max power but about the communication between GPU and PSU.
Adaptors with an ATX2.0 PSU are potentially unsafe

Can you even buy an ATX 3.0 PSU yet?
Everywhere I look it's "pre-order" only.

IMO the solution is just to avoid the FE. Nvidia's attempt to use silly power connectors in silly locations is a significant downside to the product that stops me from buying 3070 and 3090 FE cards, despite there being some very attractive deals on them right now.

 

[Batou1986]

There was documented evidience of this last month when PSU manufacturers where doing validation testing and everyone blew it off as FUD or "your bending it wrong"
Simply put Nvidia invented a solution in search of a problem and found said problem and the problem is the connector and the pins are too small and have too much current going through them.
PCIE 8 pins can carry way more current than they are rated for as a safety margin now you have 12v HPWR using pins half the size with twice the current rating and to no ones surprise you have problems.
The worst part is everyone is currently looking at the GPU side when the PSU side is generally where your goning to have even less space and more wires bent up and stuffed out of the way.

Melting 12VHPWR Connectors - The Real Story - Cultists Network

WCCFTECH stated that PCI-SIG sent an email warning against using non-ATX 3.0 PSUs and 8-pin to 12VHPWR adapters. Except, this was made up...

cultists.network

 

[P4-630]

So tell me why @W1zzard could do all his 4090 reviews with the same adapter without issues......

PEBCAK ?....

 

[Bomby569]

shitty cables that can't be bend, are this going into some weird new cases with all the components spread out horizontally

 

[Batou1986]

So tell me why @W1zzard could to all his 4090 reviews with the same adapter without issues......

PEBCAK ?....

Because wiz has a test bench and can easily avoid doing anything that may compromise the connection....
GPU's are consumer products when dealing consumers not tech specialists you need to design your product to be almost fool proof, something a simple as bending a cable like we have been doing for the past 30 years in PC building causing a catastrophic failure is a massive design oversight for a consumer product.

In all my PC building years i have never had to be concerned about bending wires and stuffing them out of the way, simply check to make sure they didnt come unplugged from the PSU and we are good, now i have to try and guestimate if i bent that 12v HPWR connector too much or not and if i guess wrong it starts a fire.

Does any one know the difference between the 2 connectors below?

The one is 12-pin and the other is 12+4-pin.
There is a reason why the +4-pin(data) exists and its crucial for preventing this kind of burn happening.
The adaptors cant all be high quality(?) and bending cables also can lead to this.

Conclusion: RTX4090 (at least) needs an ATX3.0 PSU and its not about the max power but about the communication between GPU and PSU.
Adaptors with an ATX2.0 PSU are potentially unsafe

This isnt accurately describing the problem, the sense pins remain connected regardless of what the power pins are doing and tell the GPU how much power it can draw.
This does nothing to remedy the issue of the power pins not making good contact and overheating this can happen on any 12v HPWR connector regardless of it being an adaptor or not.

 

[Chrispy_]

It's probably this. Reviewers use open test-benches in most instances with infinite space for cables and no strain on them from tight bends.
The 4090 cards are all chungus, it's almost inevitable that some of them will end up in cases that are a bit too tight for a bend-free cable route.

shitty cables that can't be bend, are this going into some weird new cases with all the components spread out horizontally

Yeah, that video explains it perfectly. small folded receptacles in the connector being leveraged open by the pin in the GPU socket.
Small socket means less metal, weaker receptacles.
6 small 12v/GND pairs for 600W is also way worse than 12 larger 12v/GND pairs across 4x8pin connectors
Finally, the adapter has the weight of four 8-pin connectors acting on the connector which is four times the strain on the pins.

Nvidia are just cheap, lazy bastards who couldn't be bothered to make PCB space for their power connectors. This is a trend that started way back in the RTX 20-series FE cards where they compromised all their TU-107 PCBs in the 2060, 2060S, 2070 FE cards by bodging on a connector that was unable to monitor each pair independently, just to save a couple of inches of PCB!

 

[W1zzard]

I had absolutely zero issues with that connector, not with heat, not with bending

 

[Bomby569]

I had absolutely zero issues with that connector, not with heat, not with bending

That's the type of comment that helps no one. For any issue, major or not, you always get someone that never got it. Major safety flaws on cars that can kill you, the cars get recalled, and yet someone eventually claims "i had no issues".

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

what a well thought out product...
make it more complex than ever and worse in every way possible... GJ Jensen.
View attachment 266906

35mm ,. Few cases fit a GPU that big plus 35mm.

It's ass in a box clearly.

@W1zzard on a test bench open to the air?!, Vertical mount? , Details please.

 

[Bomby569]

how the hell does one bend a cable like that? you'd have to glue it to some piece of metal or stick it inside a plastic tube. Inside water cooling tubes

 

[Fasola]

Can you even buy an ATX 3.0 PSU yet?
Everywhere I look it's "pre-order" only.

IMO the solution is just to avoid the FE. Nvidia's attempt to use silly power connectors in silly locations is a significant downside to the product that stops me from buying 3070 and 3090 FE cards, despite there being some very attractive deals on them right now.

Apparently it wasn't an FE. Reddit guy's PC:

 

[Tomgang]

Yeah I can't say that I am a fan of that connector either. It litterly tough the sidedoor with tempered class on my case. To prevent as little bend on adapter as possible and it is not like my case is little. It is quite big and wide. Yet still that dam adapter touch the side window.

I have not had issues with heat or meltdown yet throw I have made my card use up to 540 watt at peak. I do have that 35 mm long before a little bend. But besides that. Is looks ugly to and people that don't know of the hazard this can be. Has a possible fire hazard and damaging a very expensive card.

I Will in time, when they come. Find a better alternative solution. I'm sure manufacturers or others will come with a better adapter solution. Like something with a 90 or 180 degree angle.

 

[P4-630]

I'm sure manufacturers or others will come with a better adapter solution. Like something with a 90 or 180 degree angle.

CableMod 12VHPWR Angled Adapter – CableMod Global Store

store.cablemod.com

 

[R-T-B]

That's the type of comment that helps no one. For any issue, major or not, you always get someone that never got it. Major safety flaws on cars that can kill you, the cars get recalled, and yet someone eventually claims "i had no issues".

No this thread is the type of comment that helps no one. It's baseless hysteria.

There are always going to be a few users with issues. It's also going to be more likely to be dramatic with higher wattages. A couple anecdotal cases and a fake WCCF article does not make a trend.

Want another anecdote? My adapter works fine and has been for months, bends included. Why is one anecdote worth more than another? We need stats.

 

[Tomgang]

CableMod 12VHPWR Angled Adapter – CableMod Global Store

store.cablemod.com

Awesome. Just signed up for it.

Also it can be seen here, how my system looks with that adapter in it. I really despise the look with those 4 8 pins just hanging there. I looks wrong and I can't bend it more. Because well firehazaard and meltdown.

Post in thread 'Tomgang´s project 2 systems in 1 case. All air cooled.' https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...-in-1-case-all-air-cooled.283169/post-4859387

 

[Bomby569]

No this thread is the type of comment that helps no one. It's baseless hysteria.

There are always going to be a few users with issues. It's also going to be more likely to be dramatic with higher wattages. A couple anecdotal cases and a fake WCCF article does not make a trend.

Want another anecdote? My adapter works fine and has been for months, bends included. Why is one anecdote worth more than another? We need stats.

based on the cable mod document i would say you have a slight pending to one side, anecdotal wise
If the cards were out for a year, sure.

 

[R-T-B]

based on the cable mod document

What document? That thing above? It's a new product that doesn't claim anything other than convenient routing?

And no, no one has anything but baseless hysteria because we still lack real statistics. We can only assume innocence in that the PCI-SIG usually does due diligence.

 

[The red spirit]

No this thread is the type of comment that helps no one. It's baseless hysteria.

There are always going to be a few users with issues. It's also going to be more likely to be dramatic with higher wattages. A couple anecdotal cases and a fake WCCF article does not make a trend.

Want another anecdote? My adapter works fine and has been for months, bends included. Why is one anecdote worth more than another? We need stats.

I'm sorry, but it's not anecdote, Johny Guru says it all:

Basically connector was tested at 12 volts, 55 amps and 10 hours. Johny says that those are unrealistic conditions, but let's do the math (12 volts * 55 amps) and we have total of 660 watts. 4090 FF is rated at 450 watts and nVidia recommends 850 watt power supply, meanwhile basically any other card maker recommends 1000 watt PSU, but they don't list how much card is expected to consume power. MSI actually states that Suprim Liquid X can consume 480 watts. But let's get back to reality, TPU did test some 4090s and oen of them was Suprim X model (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4090-suprim-x/39.html). It was "only" rated at 480 watts, meanwhile it guzzled a 471 watts maximum with worst spike being 505 watts. Strix OC (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-geforce-rtx-4090-strix-oc/39.html) model had maximum of 517 watt and spike of 547 watts. However, low end Palit 4090 model (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-rtx-4090-450w-vs-600w/) if paired with ATX 3.0 PSU consumes nearly 700 watts, yikes. Johny said that at those 660 watts some connectors performed poorly thermally and it seems that sadly 660 watts is becoming a realistic number for cards.

Also, Johny said that connector after 30 plugs and unplugs can have internal damage and some have shorted in lab. Also Johny says that adapters add resistance, therefore higher chances of failure from heat. If connector is twisted by 2 radiuses, then it can have thermal variance too. So maybe not a full meltdown, but suboptimal temperatures only. Anyway, these cards are cutting way too close to spec or over spec as they are and I think that Johny was too optimistic about those new cables/adapters. After all we had burned cables with 3090s , 3090 Tis, however we also had cards like R9 295x2 and they didn't burn connectors. My take is that judge is still out and this thread is more like database of events regarding potentially burning cables/adapters. Anyway, issue is of potentially dangerous nature and it's only natural to be biased a bit too safety side.