NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Founders Edition

[Gica]

You still don't understand that you have the freedom NOT to buy. And if no one buys, prices will drop or the product will disappear. As long as you have no intention of buying, why are you complaining? I don't know if you noticed, but also for processors, r5/i5 prices are now sold at the price of r7/i7.
This is the offer and I don't think your girls mind as long as they have buyers.

 

[wheresmycar]

You still don't understand that you have the freedom NOT to buy.

We have been rescued!!

Thank you Detective Gica... you have solved the greatest enigma known to man I shall now use the full might of my power, and newly discovered ability, and fight the green monster without lifting another keystroke finger.

As long as you have no intention of buying, why are you complaining?

Oh trust me, we (or i can speak for myself) have all the intention in the world to "buy" and i've been waiting since 2017 for a solid upgrade. Not just the intention to buy, but "already" willing to fork out an exorbitant sum of cash seeing how GPU prices have excessively sky-rocketed in the last 6/more years (of course, with NVIDIA captaining the wheel). Now with 40-series i'm speechless, which takes my presupposed huge chunk of cash (~$800) and turns it into a bad joke. Forget the 4090 inflated contagion - a 4080 for $1200??? Or maybe a 4070 for $900? Seems like the green monsters apetite has grown tremendously since taking your noncomformist Freedom classes with a newly assumed position to neglect the majority of GPU buyers (nV: "tough luck biatches"). Oh well, we get to feed our disappointment once again but only this time we get to use our newly discovered Gica certified weapon of choice "Freedom NOT to buy" hahahaha

 

[Valantar]

You still don't understand that you have the freedom NOT to buy.

How do I not understand that? What part of my argument says that people don't have that right?

On the other hand, I would contend that your argument takes as its basis an idea of customers as free, rational actors which is woefully out of touch with any actual reality, and has been disproven time and time again. Human beings do not exist or act in a vacuum, and we are strongly affected by the physical and cultural context we are embedded in at all times. Speaking of "free to not buy" in that situation is so woefully simplistic that even a child would understand it.

And if no one buys, prices will drop or the product will disappear.

... yes, that is why we have marketing and complex structures geared towards generating and maintaining quasi-artificial demands (not that there's any such thing as a "real" demand beyond utterly basic forms of basic physical human needs though, which don't really come into play in developed societies).

As long as you have no intention of buying, why are you complaining?

... because of companies exploiting customers, and abusing their massive power? Oh, right, you seem like one of those libertarians who deny the existence of power dynamics and structures beyond individual people at all, so you probably don't see this happening at all. Too bad that's just a failure of your analysis of society, rather than anything resembling reality.

I don't know if you noticed, but also for processors, r5/i5 prices are now sold at the price of r7/i7.

... yes? Has anyone here said this isn't also bad?

 

[Gica]

To set the msrp of $0.99 and let the market regulate the final price. Fck, it still goes to $2000, but we can blame the store.
You had the experience of launching the RTX 3000 and Radeon 6000 series and you still didn't understand that msrp is fixed rainwater in relation to the final price. In the case of 4090: msrp=$1600 and the final price exceeds $2000.
All the best.

 

[Valantar]

To set the msrp of $0.99 and let the market regulate the final price. Fck, it still goes to $2000, but we can blame the store.
You had the experience of launching the RTX 3000 and Radeon 6000 series and you still didn't understand that msrp is fixed rainwater in relation to the final price. In the case of 4090: msrp=$1600 and the final price exceeds $2000.
All the best.

And you still have absolutely zero conception of market manipulation (which comes in too many forms and from too many directions to count) or the massively complex and irrational dynamics causing these things to happen, instead holding onto the fantasy that this is explained by the "rational" libertarian idea of supply and demand in a free market. Which just demonstrates that your theory of economics is the woefully naive and massively disproven libertarian one - one that insists on simplicity and rationality above all else. It is literally impossible to have a productive conversation about anything involving economics with someone so insistent on strict adherence to such an ideology.

 

[Gica]

Explain that...smartass.
RTX 3090: $1499 msrp
RTX 3090Ti: $1999 msrp
RTX 4090: $1599 msrp
For a company, the best product is not necessarily the best performing. It is the one that brings the most profit. It's no wonder you look like fools at Putin and don't understand anything.


Beyond gaming:
Overall, the new NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB GPU represents a massive leap in GPU performance. The exact amount depends highly on the application, with the greater benefit of course being found when the GPU is the primary bottleneck to performance.

For video editing, the RTX 4090 can be as much as 40% faster than the previous generation RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti, or almost 2x faster than the older RTX 2080 Ti. The RTX 40 Series also brings about a small performance boost for those using the GPU for either hardware decoding or encoding of H.264 and HEVC media.

Unreal Engine sees an even greater performance gain, with the RTX 4090 giving us roughly an 85% increase in FPS over the RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti across all our tests. Depending on the exact use case (ArchViz, Virtual Production, etc.), that means either faster renders, smoother performance, or the capacity for increased detail.

Lastly, GPU rendering is really where you are going to get the most out of a more powerful GPU, and the RTX 4090 comes through in spades. GPU Rendering is often nearly twice as fast as the previous generation RTX 3090 or 3090 Ti, or four times faster than the older RTX 2080 Ti.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Explain that...smartass.
RTX 3090: $1499 msrp
RTX 3090Ti: $1999 msrp
RTX 4090: $1599 msrp
For a company, the best product is not necessarily the best performing. It is the one that brings the most profit. It's no wonder you look like fools at Putin and don't understand anything.


Beyond gaming:
Overall, the new NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB GPU represents a massive leap in GPU performance. The exact amount depends highly on the application, with the greater benefit of course being found when the GPU is the primary bottleneck to performance.

For video editing, the RTX 4090 can be as much as 40% faster than the previous generation RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti, or almost 2x faster than the older RTX 2080 Ti. The RTX 40 Series also brings about a small performance boost for those using the GPU for either hardware decoding or encoding of H.264 and HEVC media.

Unreal Engine sees an even greater performance gain, with the RTX 4090 giving us roughly an 85% increase in FPS over the RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti across all our tests. Depending on the exact use case (ArchViz, Virtual Production, etc.), that means either faster renders, smoother performance, or the capacity for increased detail.

Lastly, GPU rendering is really where you are going to get the most out of a more powerful GPU, and the RTX 4090 comes through in spades. GPU Rendering is often nearly twice as fast as the previous generation RTX 3090 or 3090 Ti, or four times faster than the older RTX 2080 Ti.

Um. What are you on about here? And what does Putin have to do with any of this?

 

[wheresmycar]

Um. What are you on about here? And what does Putin have to do with any of this?

Apparently Gica believes Putin is taking over the world by forcing everyone to buy 40-series RTX cards... Gica is counteracting and thwarting Putins plans by offering free online "Freedom NOT to buy" classes. In Gica's very first enlightening class Gica cracks the uncrackable by informing the TRUE mechanics of GPU price-setting - apparently its the AI autonomous market which sets the price, not NVIDIA. All this time we had been fooled! Not anymore! With this newly discovered truth, in Day 2 (second class) Gica teaches how to fight back without lifting a single finger - just close your eyes and repeat thrice:

"Freedom NOT to buy"
"Freedom NOT to buy"
"Freedom NOT to buy"

It worked for me!! Putins got nothing on us, not with Sensei Gica at the helm of this tide-turning pacifist ship

For a company, the best product is not necessarily the best performing. "It is the one" that brings the most profit. It's no wonder you look like fools at Putin and don't understand anything.

Yes SENSEI GICA..... dont worry these fools dont understand.

"It is the one" .... only if these fools knew the "AI autonomous market" is "THE ONE", the one who munches up demand and spews out MSRPs and generously fills nVs pockets with huge profits. I hope the market isn't burdening nV too much with all this unforseen weight.

 

[Gica]

If you don't understand how the market works (and it's clear that you don't), visit this site.
At best buy (1499 dollars) you can't find anything in stock.
At a price slightly above MSRP, you can find the most awaited in the queue.
You can find plenty of RTX4090 at 2000 dollars and even 2500 dollars.
Why? Because they are wanted. Despite your complaints, the market has adjusted this product to a much higher price than msrp. The exception proves the rule.

 

[Valantar]

If you don't understand how the market works (and it's clear that you don't), visit this site.
At best buy (1499 dollars) you can't find anything in stock.
At a price slightly above MSRP, you can find the most awaited in the queue.
You can find plenty of RTX4090 at 2000 dollars and even 2500 dollars.
Why? Because they are wanted. Despite your complaints, the market has adjusted this product to a much higher price than msrp. The exception proves the rule.

... Does that link contain some hidden market analysis showing why MSRPs of non-founders cards are higher but that isn't visible to ordinary readers? All I could see was some bog-standard reporting on prices and availability. And MSRPs are higher to cover costs and provide livable margins for AIB partners, which have a less advantageous market position than Nvidia and thus need to price themselves higher in order to survive.

That there is demand doesn't change the fact that this demand had been created through years of marketing and careful manipulation of expectations and accepted pricing levels by Nvidia, nor does it change the fact that AIB partners are pricing their cards higher not because "the market makes them do it", but because they would be losing money if they tried selling these at Nvidia's MSRP.

As I've said a dozen times by now: your analysis is simplistic and utterly fails to explain how these things work. Pretending that this isn't an extremely complex, multi-factor system doesn't change the fact that is is exactly that.

 

[Gica]

Access the links that lead directly to the product.
Sold out for all "best buy" at $1499, waiting list up to $2000 and availability from $2200 and up. You still can't buy from Romania, although prices start at $2,200 for the most basic implementation. Do you think they were available at MSRP $1000?
Let's not forget that AMD had a much more attractive msrp for the 6000 series, but it was impossible to find something on the market at that price. Yes, $1000 MSRP at launch, but you couldn't find anything under $2000 if you wanted the 6900XT.
Good luck learning the market economy for beginners.

 

[Night]

Let's not forget that AMD had a much more attractive msrp for the 6000 series, but it was impossible to find something on the market at that price. Yes, $1000 MSRP at launch, but you couldn't find anything under $2000 if you wanted the 6900XT.

That was due to the cryptocurrency hysteria increasing GPU prices by 100% or more. Now it's "blamed" by inflation world wide. Personally, I find hype to be the tactic used by Nvidia as their main tool for marketing. I never buy into such hype, I'll wait for reviews and compare multiple charts if I consider a product may be worth my money, and only then make a conclusion. I'd never pay $1500 (let alone $2000+) to play using 4K120 now, when in 2 years I'll be able to only get 4k60, that is unless I have excess money laying around ready to be wasted for no apparent cause.

 

[Gica]

In short, it was the request. It doesn't matter what caused that anomaly, the demand dictates the offer price. If no one buys the RTX 4090 for $1500, you could find it in all stores at a price just below MSRP. Unfortunately, it's all the other way around and you can barely find it for $2000 even with a dead crypto GPU. The high demand also comes from creators, who buy the RTX 4090 at the MSRP price and amortize the investment very quickly. Gamers have been and will always remain in the queue since the Quadro restrictions were mostly removed.
Buy at the market price or cry on the forums, it's their choice.
Or:

 

[Valantar]

In short, it was the request. It doesn't matter what caused that anomaly, the demand dictates the offer price.

I mean, that is some of the most beautifully circular reasoning I've ever seen. Well done! It doesn't matter whatsoever the mechanisms and systems behind what is perceived as supply and/or demand, as long as it can be described with those terms in some way whatsoever, then your theory apples. Not a self-fulfilling prophecy at all that, no sir, not at all.

Seriously, your approach to economics and markets is so woefully naive and underinformed that it's downright frightening. You're truly embodying the libertarian refusal to engage whatsoever with the concrete realities of the world or its power dynamics, instead keeping to the broadest, most vague categories possible - into which literally everything fits.

If no one buys the RTX 4090 for $1500, you could find it in all stores at a price just below MSRP. Unfortunately, it's all the other way around and you can barely find it for $2000 even with a dead crypto GPU.

Oh, and you also seem to not know the difference between MSRP and price?

The high demand also comes from creators, who buy the RTX 4090 at the MSRP price and amortize the investment very quickly.

... Just how many creators with that kind of budget do you think exist in the world?

 

[Gica]

Oh, and you also seem to not know the difference between MSRP and price?

MSRP = Mi Se RuPe, in Romanian (street language with porn orientation). It's a play on words that perfectly mirrors the reality, and this reality only takes into account the demand in determining the selling price.

 

[Valantar]

MSRP = Mi Se RuPe, in Romanian (street language with porn orientation). It's a play on words that perfectly mirrors the reality, and this reality only takes into account the demand in determining the selling price.

Man, your head must be fascinating to live in. No regional differences in pricing, no power dynamics in trade, no market momentum or manipulation or scalping or artificial demand or artificially constrained supply, no taxes, import fees, local market variances affecting prices, no, it all boils down to the most simplistic and broad conception possible of "supply and demand", and absolutely zero interest in looking below this surface at all. No curiosity or base level critical thinking, as it all adds up in its superficial circularity. Makes perfect sense, of course.

 

[Ravenas]

W1z how is not having PCI 5.0 not a con?

 

[Lycanwolfen]

Does anyone have any tests without DLSS turned on and the settings done in the control panel not in the game

 

[Valantar]

W1z how is not having PCI 5.0 not a con?

Because it has absolutely zero impact on anything relevant to the card? PCIe 4.0 x16 is in no way a bottleneck, 5.0 wouldn't improve performance in any way, and would just add unnecessary cost.

Would you complain if your USB HDD didn't have 40Gbps Thunderbolt also? Adding a higher bandwidth interface increases cost and development complexity, and PCIe 5.0 might even drive up BOM costs by requiring fancy circuitry to maintain signal integrity (at least it does on motherboards). So, it would increase costs and make everything more complex, but bring zero real-world benefits. How is the absence of that a con?

 

[Ravenas]

Because it has absolutely zero impact on anything relevant to the card? PCIe 4.0 x16 is in no way a bottleneck, 5.0 wouldn't improve performance in any way, and would just add unnecessary cost.

Would you complain if your USB HDD didn't have 40Gbps Thunderbolt also? Adding a higher bandwidth interface increases cost and development complexity, and PCIe 5.0 might even drive up BOM costs by requiring fancy circuitry to maintain signal integrity (at least it does on motherboards). So, it would increase costs and make everything more complex, but bring zero real-world benefits. How is the absence of that a con?

PCI 5.0 could and would provide FPS gains, potentially 5 to 10 on average.

I don’t need a metaphor comparing HDDs and lacking feature sets to understand. It’s also a con for the 7900XTX.

These cards were likely in production prior to Z590 release. If I’m giving $1800 from my bank account, the card needs to support current bandwidths, I’m not asking for future technology not on the market like DP 2+

 

[Valantar]

PCI 5.0 could and would provide FPS gains, potentially 5 to 10 on average.

Based on what? Where would these gains be coming from?

I don’t need a metaphor comparing HDDs and lacking feature sets to understand. It’s also a con for the 7900XTX.

No, it is utterly and completely meaningless. These GPUs lose a few percentage points of performance moving to PCIe 3.0x16, meaning that even that isn't a noticeable bottleneck for them. Thus, doubling bandwidth over 4.0x16 most likely would have near zero effect on performance.


You're making statements with zero factual basis, with the only possible source being speculative extrapolation from current and lower PCIe generations - but if so, then said extrapolation has methodological flaws, as PCIe scaling tests even for the 4090 show no meaningful signs of a bottleneck at even PCIe 3.0x16.

These cards were likely in production prior to Z590 release. If I’m giving $1800 from my bank account, the card needs to support current bandwidths, I’m not asking for future technology not on the market like DP 2+

Z590? Do you mean Z690? Neither the GPUs or the cards were in production in early 2021, that's for sure - most likely the AD102 entered mass production somewhere around 6 months before launch, meaning it was taped out a bit before that. So it might roughly have coincided with the launch of Z690, sure.

But the issue with demanding this: what are you getting in return? It will not affect performance, but only increase costs. PCIe 5.0 has zero use for consumers - it's extremely useful in datacenters, which is why it replaced 4.0 so rapidly, but they also don't care about hardware costs, and can use all the bandwidth you throw at them. Consumer GPUs are not bandwidth constrained in any common usage scenario, so pushing for faster PCIe is just pushing for higher costs with no benefits to show for it. It makes no sense whatsoever. Both Nvidia and AMD not pushing for PCIe 5 on these GPUs is among the most sensible things they've done these past few years.

 

[Solaris17]

PCI 5.0 could and would provide FPS gains, potentially 5 to 10 on average.

What?? Where are you getting this?

 

[Nopa]

PCI 5.0 could and would provide FPS gains, potentially 5 to 10 on average.

5-10 more FPS? I'm all for it even 1! Every gain matters no matter how small it is imho.
I'd be interest to know tho if 5.0 x16 does anything better than 4.0 x16 or 3.0 x16 when it comes to RT.

 

[Valantar]

5-10 more FPS? I'm all for it even 1! Every gain matters no matter how small it is imho.

... even when you're paying noticeably more for it? That makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd be interest to know tho if 5.0 x16 does anything better than 4.0 x16 or 3.0 x16 when it comes to RT.

No. RT is bottlenecked by the GPU's RT compute capabilities (and also the CPU's ability to keep up), but not at all by PCIe bandwidth.

 

[dgianstefani]

5-10 more FPS? I'm all for it even 1! Every gain matters no matter how small it is imho.
I'd be interest to know tho if 5.0 x16 does anything better than 4.0 x16 or 3.0 x16 when it comes to RT.

PCI 5.0 could and would provide FPS gains, potentially 5 to 10 on average.

I don’t need a metaphor comparing HDDs and lacking feature sets to understand. It’s also a con for the 7900XTX.

These cards were likely in production prior to Z590 release. If I’m giving $1800 from my bank account, the card needs to support current bandwidths, I’m not asking for future technology not on the market like DP 2+

Do you understand the concept of "adding bandwidth potential doesn't matter when the existing bandwidth was nowhere near saturated"?

I guess that what the market really needed right now was an additional price hike in current gen motherboards due to OEMs upselling a "feature" that benefits zero people (PCIe Gen 5 SSDs aren't even out yet, and it's doubtful that even next generation cards will saturate the PCIe Gen 4 bus).