First time oc samsung b die

[Johnthedon1]

Got a set of dual rank b die 3600
Refuses to boot at 3733 even at 1.5v dram and 1.4sa with flat 20’s
so I just tuned it at 3600

13600k and z790 tomahawk

how come my aids 64 latency is so bad compared to intel mlc gui ?

I heard 45ns and 60gbs were the sweat spot for gaming, 55gbs is kinda low but ram speed wouldn’t go up so 55 it is and 45ns in intel latency checker, but what is aida so far behind it ? Do I want 45 in intel latency checker or aids for gaming ?
Not sure if it’s just a windows 11 thing why it’s so bad in aida

any surgestions on timings ?

 

[ir_cow]

How do you know its Samsung B-Die?

 

[Johnthedon1]

How do you know its Samsung B-Die?

It’s t force dark pro 8 pack edition
It’s listed as b die on the box and ocuk website
And because the xmp is 16-16-16

 

[ir_cow]

How did you come to those values your inputting? I would start XMP with 1.45V, get the the freq you want and than start to tune. It's possible that memory just can't do what you typed in. That or not enough voltage.

 

[Johnthedon1]

How did you come to those values your inputting? I would start XMP with 1.45V, get the the freq you want and than start to tune. It's possible that memory just can't do what you typed in. That or not enough voltage.

That’s what I did 1.45v and 1.35sa no boot, loosened primarys no boot
Loosened primarys and 1.5v no boot
So 3773mt is out of the question unless I’m missing something ?

 

[Taraquin]

That’s what I did 1.45v and 1.35sa no boot, loosened primarys no boot
Loosened primarys and 1.5v no boot
So 3773mt is out of the question unless I’m missing something ?

Latest bios? Tried 3700? Using A2-B2 and not A1-B1 slots? Could be that you are really unlucky with your IMC. Did you set all timings to auto when trying 3733? 111111 REFI is very hard to run for many memory sticks even at lower speeds than yours.

 

[Johnthedon1]

Latest bios? Tried 3700? Using A2-B2 and not A1-B1 slots? Could be that you are really unlucky with your IMC. Did you set all timings to auto when trying 3733? 111111 REFI is very hard to run for many memory sticks even at lower speeds than yours.

Yeah latest bios tried both slots
And no it was all auto with loosened primarys
No didn’t try 3700 I just give up on frequency after all of that and went on to making 3600 tight as possible

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Interesting Intel spec's say 13600k is limited to 3200 using ddr4

 

[ir_cow]

Hi,
Interesting Intel spec's say 13600k is limited to 3200 using ddr4

View attachment 273566

And DDR5 to 5600. Just the official support ends at that point. I've run multiple dual-rank kits at 4000 Gear 1 now with (13900K). For the Z790 Tomahawk I just left it on auto voltages and only changed command rate over to 2. Otherwise you need to dick around with VDDQ_TX and SA to find a balance.

MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi DDR4 Review

MSI brings the Intel Z790 chipset to market ready for the spotlight. The MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi offers a cost-advantage, thanks to DDR4 support, featuring a 16+1+1 VRM setup using 105 A power stages, PCIe Gen 5 support and four M.2 sockets.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Johnthedon1]

And DDR5 to 5600. Just the official support ends at that point. I've run multiple dual-rank kits at 4000 Gear 1 now with (13900K). For the Z790 Tomahawk I just left it on auto voltages and only changed command rate over to 2. Otherwise you need to dick around with VDDQ_TX and SA to find a balance.

MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi DDR4 Review

MSI brings the Intel Z790 chipset to market ready for the spotlight. The MSI MAG Z790 Tomahawk WiFi offers a cost-advantage, thanks to DDR4 support, featuring a 16+1+1 VRM setup using 105 A power stages, PCIe Gen 5 support and four M.2 sockets.

www.techpowerup.com

Il try auto voltages then see if that helps
Are the rest of my settings ok tho 45ns and 56gbs seems pretty good to me ?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Probably best to raise tRFC to 350 and if all goes well attempt to lower it until shit hits the fan
Also you could raise tREFI considerably from 11111 to at least double and I believe the max is 65535 and yes you do get good bumps here so might be better than higher frequency and stay at 3600c16 tight 16-16-16-36

 

[Johnthedon1]

Hi,
Probably best to raise tRFC to 350 and if all goes well attempt to lower it until shit hits the fan
Also you could raise tREFI considerably from 11111 to at least double and I believe the max is 65535 and yes you do get good bumps here so might be better than higher frequency and stay at 3600c16 tight 16-16-16-36

Trfc lower is better performance so 280 is better which is what I’m at now and trefi is 111111 not 11111
And flat 14’s are faster than 16’s

that’s what I’m saying I think iv pushed it to its limits at 3600

 

[ir_cow]

Il try auto voltages then see if that helps
Are the rest of my settings ok tho 45ns and 56gbs seems pretty good to me ?

Honestly, I don't pay attention to that stuff outside of benchmark runs. Maxing out my frame rate is all I care about when it comes to actual real world use. If I can do that was stock XMP, I won't even bother playing around with overclocking.

But I would seriously just start over. Run it at XMP (including secondary!) - Type in 18-22-22-48 at 1.45V at 3800 Gear 1 CM 2T. If it goes, move on up to 4000. Same deal. Once that is stable, start to lower the timings first, than the secondary. Overclocking 101.

Also since its B-Die you will need a fan on it. above 45c it will error out, maybe sooner if you go low enough on the tRFC and super high for tREFI. G.Skill bins their 4000 CL14 32GB at 1.55V. I've had to do the same to get CL14 to work as well.

F4-4000C14D-32GTES-(EOL) - Overview - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length crystalline light bar, and customizable 8-zone RGB lighting. Created...

www.gskill.com

 

[dgianstefani]

45ns is good.

Bandwidth is irrelevant unless it's the bottleneck, which is almost never.

3800/18 is bad for B die.

The reason you increase bandwidth (MT) is to reduce latency, higher bandwidth at same timings = lower latency.

Latency is what you want for gaming, and you already have 45ns? That's good.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
c14 just needs more voltage
But your latency as it is went to opposite direct than c14 is supposed to do rather than at c16 timings.

As far as 111111 what is it at auto.
You really need asrock memory config to see what's going on in the os timing wise.

 

[Johnthedon1]

Honestly, I don't pay attention to that stuff outside of benchmark runs. Maxing out my frame rate is all I care about when it comes to actual real world use. If I can do that was stock XMP, I won't even bother playing around with overclocking.

But I would seriously just start over. Run it at XMP (including secondary!) - Type in 18-22-22-48 at 1.45V at 3800 Gear 1 CM 2T. If it goes, move on up to 4000. Same deal. Once that is stable, start to lower the timings first, than the secondary. Overclocking 101.

Also since its B-Die you will need a fan on it. above 45c it will error out, maybe sooner if you go low enough on the tRFC and super high for tREFI. G.Skill bins their 4000 CL14 32GB at 1.55V. I've had to do the same to get CL14 to work as well.

F4-4000C14D-32GTES-(EOL) - Overview - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

The Trident Z Royal Elite series is the upper echelon of DDR4 DRAM performance and design, featuring a meticulously sculpted crystalline pattern across the polished surface of the aluminum heatspreader, a patented full-length crystalline light bar, and customizable 8-zone RGB lighting. Created...

www.gskill.com

Thanks will give it a try

Hi,
c14 just needs more voltage
But your latency as it is went to opposite direct than c14 is supposed to do rather than at c16 timings.

As far as 111111 what is it at auto.
You really need asrock memory config to see what's going on in the os timing wise.

What do u mean it went opposite ?
cl16 xmp was 65ns in aida and now it’s 52ns
And intel lmc when from 62 to 45ns do the settings I dialed in are faster

also passed annta777 extream 5 times overnight no errors

45ns is good.

Bandwidth is irrelevant unless it's the bottleneck, which is almost never.

3800/18 is bad for B die.

The reason you increase bandwidth (MT) is to reduce latency, higher bandwidth at same timings = lower latency.

Latency is what you want for gaming, and you already have 45ns? That's good.

I don’t no why it’s 52 in aida but 45 in intel mem latency checker not sure which one is accurate

 

[Taraquin]

Trfc lower is better performance so 280 is better which is what I’m at now and trefi is 111111 not 11111
And flat 14’s are faster than 16’s

that’s what I’m saying I think iv pushed it to its limits at 3600

REFI can do 262143 max, you can try raising it to improve perf. RFC can do lower than 280 at 1.45v. 250-260 maybe.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Watch -

3600 14-14-8-14-28

Try 14-14-14-24

The use TyphoonBurner to check the PCB revision.
If it's A2, then run the memory at 2T command rate.
Otherwise should be fine 1T.

1.45v is plenty.
Want additional frequency, run 16-16-16-36. --1.4 - 1.45v-dimm

That number 8 is probably giving you all the trouble.

 

[ir_cow]

tREFI is the "time" between refresh cycles and tRFC is the refresh cycle "time" for the cells. I believe its measured in ns. I often forget. So if you max out tREFI, it can lead to errors, especially as the memory temperature goes up.

 

[Johnthedon1]

Watch -

3600 14-14-8-14-28

Try 14-14-14-24

The use TyphoonBurner to check the PCB revision.
If it's A2, then run the memory at 2T command rate.
Otherwise should be fine 1T.

1.45v is plenty.
Want additional frequency, run 16-16-16-36. --1.4 - 1.45v-dimm

That number 8 is probably giving you all the trouble.

Wouldn’t boot at 3733 20-20-20-20-60 1.5v dram 1.35sa rest of timings at xmp

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Wouldn’t boot at 3733 20-20-20-20-60 1.5v dram 1.35sa rest of timings at xmp

That's because 20-20-20-20 is ridiculous. Mine wouldn't post that either.

Does this kit not just post XMP settings from the box? If it does, raise v-dimm and the frequency and leave all the rest on auto. Once you're closer to 4000mhz, then maybe do some timing tweaks. But let the board train just the xmp profile.

 

[Johnthedon1]

That's because 20-20-20-20 is ridiculous. Mine wouldn't post that either.

Does this kit not just post XMP settings from the box? If it does, raise v-dimm and the frequency and leave all the rest on auto. Once you're closer to 4000mhz, then maybe do some timing tweaks. But let the board train just the xmp profile.

Yes loose so should post ?
il try this but also would post 18-18-18

 

[ir_cow]

That's because 20-20-20-20 is ridiculous. Mine wouldn't post that either.

You and me live in different worlds I swear lol. This is how I do all my initial overclocking. Raise the values super high, get to max freq and lower them one by one. Always works for me.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

You and me live in different worlds I swear lol. This is how I do all my initial overclocking. Raise the values super high, get to max freq and lower them one by one. Always works for me.

Cl 20 at 3600mhz? Your world is way crazy lol.

My 4267mhz B-Die kit is A2 pcb. So it doesn't like 1T at 4000mhz cl14-14-14-24 even at 1.60v.

A0 or A1 kits will do CL12 4000mhz 1T around 1.9v.

I've yet to see 14-14-8-14 be a normal timing set.... which is not setting crazy high at all....

 

[Johnthedon1]

You and me live in different worlds I swear lol. This is how I do all my initial overclocking. Raise the values super high, get to max freq and lower them one by one. Always works for me.

That’s pretty much how everyone does it