Even with all the hate towards the 4080 pricing, we've gotta admit it's a historic product, coming after another historic one

[alon123A]

I believe the 3080 will forever be remembered as the card that got 4K mainstream, and the 4080 will forever be remembered as the card that got ray tracing mainstream.
What do you guys think?

 

[Vayra86]

Nah, the 3080 will be remembered as the powerful card that got released with a measly 10GB, so its defo not a true 4K card.

The 4080 will be remembered for its 12GB unlaunch as a 4070ti.

The problem here is that for cards to 'be remembered' people need to be able to buy them. The 970, that thing is 'remembered' favorably. As is the 980ti. And the 1080(ti). None though as the cards 'that made this or that happen'. Game performance scales up over time. 4K is a moving goal, and RT is like an arcade shooting range in comparison.

If you're going to see a quote like that in history, its going to be from a console generation. Otherwise; the cards that made RT happen were Turing cards, totally forgettable as a GPU gen.

/thread

 

[ShiBDiB]

Historic in what sense? It's just a new generation of GPU's, they're powerful but also don't bring any revolutionary changes to the field. If anything the cost and power consumption make it a pass for most, especially considering the 3xxx series is now in a more affordable place and even more than powerful enough for literally everything on the market. Wouldn't shock me at all if sales fail to meet expectations.

IMO the 4xxx series are an unnecessary cash grab where the gain over the 3xxx cards is way too insignificant in almost all applications for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Auxityne]

I forgot the vanilla 3080 existed until you mentioned it just now.

 

[Moose Wayne]

2080s/ti did that.

 

[BSim500]

I believe the 3080 will forever be remembered as the card that got 4K mainstream, and the 4080 will forever be remembered as the card that got ray tracing mainstream. What do you guys think?

I'd probably wait until £1,200 GPU's can get more than 18fps in 15 year old games at native resolution at 1/3rd of the price, and more than 1-in-40 gamers are using 4k before calling either "mainstream".

 

[phanbuey]

Nvidia is enabling content creators to make their own games. RT is really just another step to that - imagine not having to know anything about lighting or materials and still be able to make stuff because you have a studio that does it for you.

The best RT implementations are remasters right now, and I can see that trend continuing as there are a ton of old games that would absolutely make a ton of money on the market with minimal effort.

 

[BSim500]

Nvidia is enabling content creators to make their own games. RT is really just another step to that - imagine not having to know anything about lighting or materials and still be able to make stuff because you have a studio that does it for you.

I'll be honest, "now game developers don't even need to know anything about video games to make video games!" does not inspire me with confidence. I mean, that you're already calling them "content creators" instead of game developers is already a red flag... I've already seen the result of some 20-man studios made up of 19 artists and 1 guy who actually knows how to code and it ain't pretty...

 

[caroline!]

Nah, raytracing is an overhyped volumetric lighting gimmick and a lame justification to increase prices of cards to the moon. AMD took the bait and did the same so it's no better.

Not everyone buying graphics cards is a gamer, and manufacturers/AIBs refuse to believe it.

 

[HD64G]

What? Mainstream at that price?

 

[Super Firm Tofu]

I'll be honest, "now game developers don't even need to know anything about video games to make video games!" does not inspire me with confidence. I mean, that you're already calling them "content creators" instead of game developers is already a red flag... I've already seen the result of some 20-man studios made up of 19 artists and 1 guy who actually knows how to code and it ain't pretty...

This. And if Portal is any indication of how Nvidia ReMix works, its whole purpose is to sell 4090's, not help content creators.

 

[alon123A]

2080s/ti did that.

I agree but I never considered it mainstream. I don't remember the exact msrp at the time but it was much more enthusiastic than the 4080 is today, in a broader economic and an unfortunately inflationary way.

Nah, raytracing is an overhyped volumetric lighting gimmick and a lame justification to increase prices of cards to the moon. AMD took the bait and did the same so it's no better.

Not everyone buying graphics cards is a gamer, and manufacturers/AIBs refuse to believe it.

I promise you - Try a 4080, and you'll change your mind. Saying this after playing The Witcher 3, Crysis 3 remastered, and Miles Morales. Coming from a 3080 I was sure that RT is overhyped, but it simply isn't and the 4080 proves that.

 

[phanbuey]

This. And if Portal is any indication of how Nvidia ReMix works, its whole purpose is to sell 4090's, not help content creators.

Portal is a perfect example - it's something that was done quickly and relatively cheaply by a few people with minimal effort compared to a full game release -- and it's actually great, the game itself is fun and the graphics are awesome. As of now, ReMix has enabled my kids to try one of my liked games (portal --they're still too young for quake 2), and me to replay it with amazing lighting and graphics. That's something that wasn't possible before.

During the Covid card apocalypse Cyberpunk had just come out, and there was no 3 series cards to be had under like $1500 where I was - I really wanted to play it on my 4k big screen tv and I still had my 2080ti (which I kept for over 2 years) and at the end of its life I was playing Cyberpunk at 4k tweaked settings with DLSS 2 on + sharpening filter, and it was a game changer. It's not something people who were shelling out $1400 for a 6900xt could even do - they were stuck at 50 under FPS.

Point is features that enable you to do things you couldn't do before are valuable. I agree with the OP -- the 4080 feature set is valuable, RT is valuable, and DLSS3 works really well (tried it in witcher3, portal, and flight sim) that will massively extend the life of this card.

 

[ShiBDiB]

Portal is a perfect example - it's something that was done quickly and relatively cheaply by a few people with minimal effort compared to a full game release.

ReMix is going to enable my kids to try some of my favorite games, and me to replay them with amazing lighting and graphics - I played portal RTX and it's actually great. Yes it runs like crap unless you use 4080/4090 and DLSS3 but works great with it, and looks amazing. Eventually you can buy 4090/4080 performance will be what $300-$400 in 2 years but the game will be around and it will still be worthwhile to play.

You may not like "content" creators putting out games, and yes 90% of them will be garbage. But the 10% that isn't total crap will be more than worth it.

Morrowind is something I'm looking forward to. This is tech that's actually expanding the gaming market, which is kind of huge.

I understand you need to justify the fact that you spent enough money to buy a used car on a GPU... but just no, the 4xxx series is in perhaps the worst cost/performance spot of any GPU release.

 

[birdie]

I'm surprised to see NVIDIA shills on TPU. Seriously.

Celebrating an x80 class card (whatever its performance is) at $1200 is pure insanity. Over 95% of gamers will never afford one.

My whole PC (with a 144Hz 1440p IPS monitor) costs less than that.

 

[phanbuey]

I'm surprised to see NVIDIA shills on TPU. Seriously.

Celebrating an x80 class card (whatever its performance is) at $1200 is pure insanity.

But what is the 7900XTX? You're getting 5-10% of the same performance on a card where all ther AIB are $1100+, and the 7900XT is $900??

And these cards don't have the software that the NV cards have so, IDK - if you think the 4080 is crap, then you should think the 7900 is crap too, or you're just shilling for AMD.

We're not celebrating an X80 class card at $1200 - we're celebrating that RT is a feature that's actually coming into reality and will add games and experiences that we didn't have before. Im gonna be celebrating my ass off playint RT morrowind.

 

[birdie]

But what is the 7900XTX? You're getting 5-10% of the same performance on a card where all ther AIB are $1100+, and the 7900XT is $900??

And these cards don't have the software that the NV cards have so, IDK - if you think the 4080 is crap, then you should think the 7900XTX is crap too, or you're just shilling for AMD.

We're not celebrating an X80 class card at $1200 - we're celebrating that RT is a feature that's actually coming into reality and will add games and experiences that we didn't have before. Im gonna be celebrating my ass off playint RT morrowind.

To think of me as a fanboy is an egregious insult. I've never ever ever loved or praised a single effing company over the other. I care about products, their qualities and pricing. Period.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Strange topic with LoL how long and provocative title. I'm just passing by to add that as form of protest, I will not buy a video card of this generation, and accordingly I do not support any brand, because of their excessive greed and excessively high markups.

 

[phanbuey]

To think of me as a fanboy is an egregious insult.

You're not -- you're consistent. But a lot of people are treating the 7900xtx as some sort of saving grace from the evil 4080 and think it's a great product when they're paying within $100 of it for within 10-15% performance.

 

[BSim500]

ReMix is going to enable my kids to try some of my favorite games, and me to replay them with amazing lighting and graphics - I played portal RTX and it's actually great. Yes it runs like crap unless you use 4080/4090 and DLSS3 but works great with it, and looks amazing. Eventually you can buy 4090/4080 performance will be what $300-$400 in 2 years but the game will be around and it will still be worthwhile to play.

^ Honestly it's hard to read this without laughing at the prediction in bold. You think RTX 4050's will = RTX 3090? Or that RTX 5050's will = RTX 4090's in 2 years? Reality = there's been literally zero progress at all in the $300 RTX sector in 3 years, ie, RTX 2060 (2019) was replaced by the RTX 3050 (2022) (same price, 10% slower). It hasn't "leapt forward", it's actually regressed. People seriously need to "keep it real" and stop drinking a little too much Remix marketing kool-aid. RT looks "prettier" but I 10000% guarantee it will not spawn off some utopia of perfect game developers who "don't need to know what they're doing" regarding lighting, rendering, etc.

Games aren't going to be RT-only for a very, very long time (possibly decades) simply because the main purpose of game studios is to actually sell as many games as possible, not put themselves out of business by making games that work only on the top 5% of epeen only GPU's. So "RT" games will still be coded "normally" anyway with RT being an option which is no different to now. "Any day now we'll have $300 RTX 4090's and game devs will have RT-only one-click tools" is as completely out of touch with reality as the Home Theatre Enthusiast who doesn't understand why movies aren't going to be made 8k exclusives simply because he bought himself an 8k TV and is looking for more stuff to use on it.

 

[Vya Domus]

1200 bucks is never mainstream, no matter what it does.

It's like saying a 300K Ferrari made fast cars "mainstream".

 

[phanbuey]

^ Honestly it's hard to read this without laughing at the prediction in bold. You think RTX 4050's will = RTX 3090? Or that RTX 5050's will = RTX 4090's in 2 years? Reality = there's been literally zero progress at all in the $300 RTX sector in 3 years, ie, RTX 2060 (2019) was replaced by the RTX 3050 (2022) (same price, 10% slower). It hasn't "leapt forward", it's actually regressed. People seriously need to "keep it real" and stop drinking a little too much Remix marketing kool-aid. RT looks "prettier" but I 10000% guarantee it will not spawn off some utopia of perfect game developers who "don't need to know what they're doing" regarding lighting, rendering, etc.

Games aren't going to be RT-only for a very, very long time (possibly decades) simply because the main purpose of game studios is to actually sell as many games as possible, not put themselves out of business by making games that work only on the top 5% of epeen only GPU's. So "RT" games will still be coded "normally" anyway with RT being an option which is no different to now. "Any day now we'll have $300 RTX 4090's and game devs will have RT-only one-click tools" is as completely out of touch with reality as the Home Theatre Enthusiast who doesn't understand why movies aren't going to be made 8k exclusives simply because he bought himself an 8k TV and is looking for more stuff to use on it.

What? right now you can get a brand new 6800xt for $550 with $80 worth of games... the 6800 for even less - that level of performance -- an OC'd 3060ti / 3070 is worth about $350-400 right now on the used market which were 2080super/2080ti levels of performance.

I build rigs on a regular basis, now is a great time for GPUs -- you're crazy if you think the 2060 is worth $300 and there's been 0 progress price/perf in the last 3 years.

 

[the54thvoid]

I don't know what to say. That this thread even exists or that it has that title?

We have a 'why hate the 4080?' thread already. We certainly don't need another one that seems designed to either troll, or suck-ass.

 

[BSim500]

What? right now you can get a brand new 6800xt for $550 with $80 worth of games... the 6800 for even less - that level of performance -- an OC'd 3060ti / 3070 is worth about $350-400 right now on the used market which were 2080super/2080ti levels of performance.

If the only GPU's you can find for your "mainstream" price tag are used ones, that's a literal admission that current / future RTX GPU's aren't priced for the mainstream...

Yo guys, why don't y'all own 8TB SSD's? I don't get it, there's a guy on Ebay selling an old 870 QVO with 25% life remaining for $299. That's mainstream that is!...

 

[alon123A]

Nah, the 3080 will be remembered as the powerful card that got released with a measly 10GB, so its defo not a true 4K card.

The 4080 will be remembered for its 12GB unlaunch as a 4070ti.

The problem here is that for cards to 'be remembered' people need to be able to buy them. The 970, that thing is 'remembered' favorably. As is the 980ti. And the 1080(ti). None though as the cards 'that made this or that happen'. Game performance scales up over time. 4K is a moving goal, and RT is like an arcade shooting range in comparison.

If you're going to see a quote like that in history, its going to be from a console generation. Otherwise; the cards that made RT happen were Turing cards, totally forgettable as a GPU gen.

/thread

The 1080 TI will also be remembered. It was affordable and a great product which rendered the 20 series obsolete, at least until DLSS 2.0.