Which Speed for 64 gigs of ram? AMD

[Yoshiii335]

It might work at a higher speed as well, depending on motherboard choice, but I wouldn't count on it.

I have a Asus Rog Swift B650E-E board

 

[Space Lynx]

Here is the shady thing about ALL QVL lists. They are arcuate for the in-house binned CPU, using special BIOS and or with a unhealthy amount of voltage. I use the lists for reference, but chances are the highest freq on the list won't work for your standard retail setup. Its a stupid marketing war between vendors. One says they support something higher and that company gets a sale....

I can 100% back up this claim, as it has happened to me on AMD and Intel rigs that a QVL set of ram did not work with said motherboard. I find its just best to play it safe. Right now I am running 4x8gb sticks at 3600 c18

for gaming I might be missing out on 10-20 fps, but eh, that 10-20 fps isn't worth the headache of better ram imo.

 

[AusWolf]

I have a Asus Rog Swift B650E-E board

The QVL list of your board only has two 4x 16 GB kits at 4800 MHz on it, so I wouldn't expect higher speeds with any dual rank kit of 4 sticks.

 

[Yoshiii335]

The QVL list of your board only has two 4x 16 GB kits at 4800 MHz on it, so I wouldn't expect higher speeds with any dual rank kit of 4 sticks.

I don't see that, everthing shows ram speeds of 5600-6200. Here is something from the manual :

 

[AusWolf]

I don't see that, everthing shows ram speeds of 5600-6200. Here is something from the manual :
View attachment 275850

I put a link onto the "QVL list" text in my post. You won't find it in the manual. Even your manual specifies that everything above 5200 MHz is over spec, and you should consult the website for the support list.

 

[ir_cow]

The QVL list of your board only has two 4x 16 GB kits at 4800 MHz on it, so I wouldn't expect higher speeds with any dual rank kit of 4 sticks.

That's not even the 128GB amount either the op wants. ASUS says they "tested" up to 4x 16GB (single rank) and it was 4800. But yeah its going to be a low freq for sure. 4x 32GB 6000 is def not gong to work.

 

[Yoshiii335]

I put a link onto the "QVL list" text in my post. You won't find it in the manual. Even your manual specifies that everything above 5200 MHz is over spec, and you should consult the website for the support list.

That's not even the 128GB amount either the op wants. ASUS says they "tested" up to 4x 16GB (single rank) and it was 4800. But yeah its going to be a low freq for sure. 4x 32GB 6000 is def not gong to work.

So if I do 128gigs of ram its going to be low speed?

 

[Space Lynx]

that's what he just said. re-read his post.


but, I must say, its extremely satisfying filling all 4 slots on a mobo.

it just...

feels good.

 

[Yoshiii335]

That's not even the 128GB amount either the op wants. ASUS says they "tested" up to 4x 16GB (single rank) and it was 4800. But yeah its going to be a low freq for sure. 4x 32GB 6000 is def not gong to work.

that's what he just said. re-read his post.


but, I must say, its extremely satisfying filling all 4 slots on a mobo.

it just...

feels good.

So this is from AMD's site

So I can run 2x single rank or 2x dual rank at 5200 and 4x single rank or 4x dual rank at 3600? Why does AMD and other users say 6000 is the sweet spot for AM5? So with the 6000 ram that came with the motherboard when I bought it, I have to enable EXPO to get the ram to go to 6000?

 

[Space Lynx]

So this is from AMD's site

So I can run 2x single rank or 2x dual rank at 5200 and 4x single rank or 4x dual rank at 3600? Why does AMD and other users say 6000 is the sweet spot for AM5? So with the 6000 ram that came with the motherboard when I bought it, I have to enable EXPO to get the ram to go to 6000?

cause AMD is referring to gamers only when they sweet spot, not people who need 64-128gb of ram, which gamers don't.

 

[Yoshiii335]

cause AMD is referring to gamers only when they sweet spot, not people who need 64-128gb of ram, which gamers don't.

So if I am going to game and use it for 3D design, 3D rendering, movie editing, and will have 64gb of ram, I can just get 5200 and save money?

 

[Mussels]

6000 will be the max supported on a lot of Motherboards for dual rank or 4x single. I think 5200 will be the safest though. It comes down to if you are willing to change the freq if 6000 doesn't work.

Edit: I should clarify it's more to do with the limitations of the CPU IMC, but often motherboards that have tested so far (even the expensive ones) struggle with anything above 6000 and that goes for single rank as well.

^ Trust IR-Cow, he's the DDR5 expert around here

So if I am going to game and use it for 3D design, 3D rendering, movie editing, and will have 64gb of ram, I can just get 5200 and save money?

Very likely

High speed RAM can help maximum FPS, but it doesnt magically give you better CPU performance - Think of it as responding faster to rapid small tasks while big tasks like rendering and productivity only care that they have enough ram

It'll probably save you a lot of time and effort to get cheaper slower stuff since you have lowered risk of needing to manually tweak settings

Maximum speeds supported is usually for two single rank sticks - the more ranks involved the lower that goes, and that's why there's just an 'upto' figure since each different RAM maker and their different series can vary that around a bit

 

[ir_cow]

So this is from AMD's site

So I can run 2x single rank or 2x dual rank at 5200 and 4x single rank or 4x dual rank at 3600? Why does AMD and other users say 6000 is the sweet spot for AM5? So with the 6000 ram that came with the motherboard when I bought it, I have to enable EXPO to get the ram to go to 6000?

What AMD officially supports and what is the best is not the same. Officially AMD does not support 4x DIMMs above 3600. In fact it will boot to those speeds if you never go into the BIOS and enable XMP/EXPO. Intel does the same thing. They need to have a safe number that works with every type of setup and MB on the market. It's a safety net so to speak.

DDR5-6000 is the "sweet spot" for AMD because it is the highest "out of the box" near guaranteed freq and best cost to perf ratio for....two single rank DIMMs. All the motherboards I tested so far can run two dual rank at 6000 as well.

As for 4 DIMMs, because I only have a single dual rank kit, I could not do 128GB, but 4x16GB works anywhere from 5600-6200 (using auto MB voltages). my suspicion is 4x 32GB (dual rank) will not work above 4800-5200. It just the limitation of the CPU IMC.

Here is my best results so far with 4x16GB and honestly 2x 32GB OC to 6200 is a lot easier to achieve. Either case both requires some BIOS tinkering. https://hwbot.org/submission/5095860_ir_cow_y_cruncher___pi_10b_ryzen_9_7950x_3min_43sec_88ms/

^ Trust IR-Cow, he's the DDR5 expert around here

Thanks, just a lot of hands on experience testing all these memory kits and motherboards. I'm not always right, but I think consensus here is pretty cut and dry.

So if I am going to game and use it for 3D design, 3D rendering, movie editing, and will have 64gb of ram, I can just get 5200 and save money?

You don't need anything "fast". That 5 hour render is will take 4.30 with faster memory (making up numbers), but it still a lot of time.

In fact when I do blender benchmark. You can see in the chart that 4800 is just as good. Still almost 4 minutes a frame.

 

[Yoshiii335]

What AMD officially supports and what is the best is not the same. Officially AMD does not support 4x DIMMs above 3600. In fact it will boot to those speeds if you never go into the BIOS and enable XMP/EXPO. Intel does the same thing. They need to have a safe number that works with every type of setup and MB on the market. It's a safety net so to speak.

DDR5-6000 is the "sweet spot" for AMD because it is the highest "out of the box" near guaranteed freq and best cost to perf ratio for....two single rank DIMMs. All the motherboards I tested so far can run two dual rank at 6000 as well.

As for 4 DIMMs, because I only have a single dual rank kit, I could not do 128GB, but 4x16GB works anywhere from 5600-6200 (using auto MB voltages). my suspicion is 4x 32GB (dual rank) will not work above 4800-5200. It just the limitation of the CPU IMC.

Here is my best results so far with 4x16GB and honestly 2x 32GB OC to 6200 is a lot easier to achieve. Either case both requires some BIOS tinkering. https://hwbot.org/submission/5095860_ir_cow_y_cruncher___pi_10b_ryzen_9_7950x_3min_43sec_88ms/


Thanks, just a lot of hands on experience testing all these memory kits and motherboards. I'm not always right, but I think consensus here is pretty cut and dry.


You don't need anything "fast". That 5 hour render is will take 4.30 with faster memory (making up numbers), but it still a lot of time.

In fact when I do blender benchmark. You can see in the chart that 4800 is just as good. Still almost 4 minutes a frame.
View attachment 275867

Ok, cool. So the chart above is from 2x single rank or 2x dual rank?

 

[Space Lynx]

Ok, cool. So the chart above is from 2x single rank or 2x dual rank?

ddr5 is only made in single rank right now to my knowledge.

 

[ir_cow]

Ok, cool. So the chart above is from 2x single rank or 2x dual rank?

It says in the chart. The point is if 4800 takes 1 second longer per frame and you add up say 1700 frames at 3min a piece. That is 85 hrs. Now sub track 28 minutes and that is the difference between 4800 and 6200. If you can use the GPU for rendering, it will be much much faster. I highly suggest it.

ddr5 is only made in single rank right now to my knowledge.

Nah, dual-rank is just uncommon and expensive.

 

[Yoshiii335]

ddr5 is only made in single rank right now to my knowledge.

So even the 32 gb stick is single rank?

It says in the chart. The point is if 4800 takes 1 second longer per frame and you add up say 1700 frames at 3min a piece. That is 85 hrs. Now sub track 28 minutes and that is the difference between 4800 and 6200. If you can use the GPU for rendering, it will be much much faster. I highly suggest it.


Nah, dual-rank is just uncommon and expensive.

I will use gpu for rendering just wanted to know about the speed of ram and how it affects how many sticks you use.

Thanks

 

[ir_cow]

So even the 32 gb stick is single rank?

No

 

[OkieDan]

If I put 128gigs (4x32gig ram sticks)DDR5 at 6000mhz, will the speed drop down because I am using 4 slots or will it stay the same? If it does drop down, what will it affect as far as speed and what programs I use?

If you enable XMP/EXPO profile or otherwise manually choose 6000 mt/s It would likely fail to POST and require you to clear CMOS and try a manual setting at a lower speed probably somewhere between 3600 to 4200 no matter which kit you get. If you watch the video I posted I'm pretty sure it was multiple kits on multiple MBDs topping out at 4200 max and not completely stable IIRC.

One thing to keep in mind is there will be at least one more gen on the AM5 platform and they may have a better IMC and allow you to use the full potential of a faster kit you buy now instead of purchasing another kit in a couple years. Of course faster kits should be cheaper in a couple years and the IMC may be so good that a great kit now is just mid-range by then.

@ir_cow I'll be interensted in what default speed is chosen, it apparently wouldn't be able to use the lowest JEDEC speed CPU-z reports from my kit (JEDEC #5 / 2166 MHz). I guess this is why there's always going to be some kind of training on AM5, at least with this gen.

 

[AusWolf]

So if I do 128gigs of ram its going to be low speed?

Not automatically. This:

If you enable XMP/EXPO profile or otherwise manually choose 6000 mt/s It would likely fail to POST and require you to clear CMOS and try a manual setting at a lower speed probably somewhere between 3600 to 4200 no matter which kit you get. If you watch the video I posted I'm pretty sure it was multiple kits on multiple MBDs topping out at 4200 max and not completely stable IIRC.

So if I am going to game and use it for 3D design, 3D rendering, movie editing, and will have 64gb of ram, I can just get 5200 and save money?

Yes. RAM speed doesn't really matter for gaming on Zen 4. As for rendering and 3D work, I don't know.

Besides, if you buy a higher speed kit, and it ends up not working, you'll have to manually experiment with lower speeds until you find the one that works, or run it at JEDEC standard, which is as far as I know, 4800 MHz on most kits - which might also not be stable depending on your motherboard and CPU IMC quality.

Question: do you really need 128 gigs of RAM? If so, would it not be better to build a cheaper Zen 3 (Ryzen 5000-series) system with 128 GB DDR4?

So I can run 2x single rank or 2x dual rank at 5200 and 4x single rank or 4x dual rank at 3600? Why does AMD and other users say 6000 is the sweet spot for AM5? So with the 6000 ram that came with the motherboard when I bought it, I have to enable EXPO to get the ram to go to 6000?

It is the sweet spot for gaming, for which even 16 GB is enough most of the time. That is, sweet spot in price-to-performance ratio and in terms of CPU IMC capability.

 

[Bronan]

Here is the shady thing about ALL QVL lists. They are arcuate for the in-house binned CPU, using special BIOS and or with a unhealthy amount of voltage. I use the lists for reference, but chances are the highest freq on the list won't work for your standard retail setup. Its a stupid marketing war between vendors. One says they support something higher and that company gets a sale....

On every pc i build i found problems with memory speeds especially if you want it to run faster or really OC yourself
I actually had 20 sets send back and forth from corsair memory and the mobo refused to ever run well with the preset XMP profile even though the set was in the list of good working memory
With DDR5 i fear it becomes even a bigger pain as it is brand new and with that high speeds i expect more problems will show up
Do not go for the highest speeds sold just stay at the lower end, in all the speed of memory has never really mattered so much
Another issue the bigger the set, expect more problems as funny enough 16 GB is still more than enough for any game, the swapping from/to any good nvme happens fast enough
However i love to use ramdisks which are much faster than any ssd sadly any attempt to install 128 of higher has this far constant failed on all 4 motherboards i bought and at the end of the tries ended with the same old mobo.
Sure i can buy a pro mobo + ditto cpu but those are not very good for gaming and of course alot more than the expenssive game boards i bought
So to switch to a pro system pumps up the price up alot and when you want to sell that pro stuff you end up with a huge money loss always
As people do not want to pay for these extreme expenssive stuff, just because their is not really a market for them in general
So i stopped trying to get a large amount of memory getting to work on my expenssive hobby
Sure i admit nothing really new in the gaming world, does make my 9900kf still fast enough for every game there is released as of yet with a speed of 5 up to 5,1 Ghz boost standard
The only change i will make is when AMD will release the new 7xxx3D cpu, if it is really pushing the performance forwards i might buy that
Then it will be the end of a long period Intel cpu since the intels kept the crown as a gaming cpu
I admit i probably will not need it but those xxxx3D seem to be very good as my friends all switched several times to a newer release of the newer AMD models and said the xxxx3D is so much nicer.
Om paper the Intels are faster but they sweared me, once i try it i never will return from it ever again
LoL i actually already am waiting for the newest release and if the dust settles after the initial dust of the release and prices become more normal i think it is gonna be my new game cpu so finally back to all AMD after a very long period of Intel / Nvidia only xD

 

[Hankieroseman]

If you enable XMP/EXPO profile or otherwise manually choose 6000 mt/s It would likely fail to POST and require you to clear CMOS and try a manual setting at a lower speed probably somewhere between 3600 to 4200 no matter which kit you get. If you watch the video I posted I'm pretty sure it was multiple kits on multiple MBDs topping out at 4200 max and not completely stable IIRC.

One thing to keep in mind is there will be at least one more gen on the AM5 platform and they may have a better IMC and allow you to use the full potential of a faster kit you buy now instead of purchasing another kit in a couple years. Of course faster kits should be cheaper in a couple years and the IMC may be so good that a great kit now is just mid-range by then.

@ir_cow I'll be interensted in what default speed is chosen, it apparently wouldn't be able to use the lowest JEDEC speed CPU-z reports from my kit (JEDEC #5 / 2166 MHz). I guess this is why there's always going to be some kind of training on AM5, at least with this gen.

Link to video? Trying to tweak memory speed myself.

 

[OkieDan]

It's embedded in post #20.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I have a Asus Rog Swift B650E-E board

I have its predecessor, the B550-E. It's been a relatively reliable motherboard for the time I have owned it, and it's been running with the previous generation's flagship, the 5950X. It should not be too fussy with memory, either. By all ends and means it is a high-end motherboard built around the midrange chipset, just like mine is

You may suffer a bit from early bugs here and there, but it should be down to newness and over time it should prove to be quite the great purchase. Enjoy!

 

[Mussels]

Yes. RAM speed doesn't really matter for gaming on Zen 4.

I'm wanting first hand experience from people on that, do they behave like the 5800x3D where the extra cache over zen3 just alleviates the issue early Zen had?

Are they still somewhat sensitive to timings? Or too early to tell (It's not like DDR4 started out at 3600 CL14)