temperature at high loads on Z790: MSI Carbon or Gigabyte AORUS Master

[techvslife]

My preferred choice for mobo (gigabyte Aero G) is still out of stock (since October actually), and might be for at least another month (sigh). It's about $200 more and ridiculous overkill to look at the MSI Carbon or AORUS master, but they are in stock and have the features that I need (two m.2-to-CPU slots on a Z790 board). I've ruled out the ASRock Taichi due to some negative reviews. I remember some testing here that showed the Z690 version of the MSI Carbon running hot under high load (and OC), and I think a lot hotter than the Gigabyte AORUS Master. Is that still true of the new MSI Carbon Z790? And any other thoughts on the two are welcome, esp. quality & stability. (I know the AORUS Master is E-ATX and the MSI Carbon is ATX, but I think I can fit them both in the Meshify 2 Compact.)

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Running hot ?
Cpu is the main silicon lottery winner or loser not the board.

Meaning some cpu's need more voltage than much better ones.

 

[techvslife]

The mobo is my question, not the CPU. (The CPU is 13900K.) The review I meant is here but it's about the old version of the Carbon (the Z690). Would the VRM torture test do better on the Z790 Carbon? And is the Carbon Z790 doing as well as the AORUS Master Z790? Any other thoughts on the two welcome.

MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi Review

MSI brings the MPG Carbon line to the Intel Z690 chipset with Gen5 PCIe slots and DDR5 support. Along with debuting new features on the LGA1700 socket, this motherboard has dual 8-pin EPS, reinforced Steel Armor PCIe slots, five M.2 sockets, Mythic Lighting, and Wi-Fi 6E.

www.techpowerup.com

The MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi in part did poorly in the VRM torture test because of the smaller VRM heatsink. However, the 75 A power stages did not help the situation. With a fan directly on the VRM section for the first 5 minutes, neither probe area plateaued and only continuously rose. Once the fan was removed after 5 minutes, temperatures quickly rose until the torture test was over, reaching upwards of 95°C by the end. These shockingly high temperatures during the torture test prompted me to see what a stock CPU running Prime95 would look like. After all, Prime95 had drawn a lot of current. I was curious how well this motherboard's VRM would hold up under a practical use case. The results clearly show that the VRM is designed around moderate use instead of an all-core overclock.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
You can't run hot or cold without a cpu.
They request how much auto voltages are used
Even if you try to limit the core voltage with -offsets often the settings will be ignored.

Asus boards show sp# of all chips used it's actually a good story teller of a cpu's quality
They also have v-f curves which really tell you why
So if giga has some of these features get that board lol

 

[techvslife]

Thanks, not sure it does have that screen, but it has a lot of OC screens.

https://www.gigabyte.com/FileUpload/Global/KeyFeature/1976/innergigabyteimages/Z690-OC-GUIDE.pdf

Again, I'm asking which mobo runs hotter under CPU load or OC stress (in this case, the 13900K) -- or anything else on stability, quality etc between the two boards. But I don't see these kinds of tests with the new Z790 MSI Carbon or the new Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master. Based on previous tests, I'm inclined to go with the AORUS. To repeat: the question is about the motherboard, not the CPU. (i.e. assume the same CPU on both motherboards, which motherboard runs hotter under heavy load or torture tests).

Here is another test showing the AORUS Master (Z690) running a lot cooler than MSI boards and a bit cooler than ASUS, but again, I'd like some insight into Z790 boards, specifically the AORUS Master vs MSI Carbon. Otherwise, I'll go by the Z690 tests -- unless I'm overlooking some other factor that favors one or the other.

The GIGABYTE Z690 Aorus Master Mobo Review: 10GbE Rounds Out A Premium Board

www.anandtech.com

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Maybe @ir_cow can help you figure out which board to use he does lots of reviews

 

[techvslife]

Thanks. After seeing now some user posts complaining of surprisingly high thermals on the Z690 Carbon, I guess I'd have to see some positive test on the Z790 MSI Carbon before going with that over the AORUS Master. (I just wish the Master were ATX and cheaper....)

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Here's his latest review might checkout his itel setup on some others

G.SKILL Flare X5 DDR5-6000 CL32 (AMD) 2x 16 GB

G.SKILL brings forward the Flare X line to the DDR5 market. In today's review we will be using the new EXPO 6000 MT/s profile that's optimized for Zen 4 using modest primary timings of 32-38-38-96. This kit is designed and marketed for AMD and targets the "sweet spot" that is getting all the...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[ir_cow]

I changed my VRM testing a lot since than. Now I do the tests with both the fan and without for the full duration including Prime95, R23 and Gaming. Don't let those VRM temps get you though. The that Z690 Carbon Prime95 is a abusive test with the CPU pulling 320~ watts and no fan. The point was to show worse possible case setup. Are you running a mega overclock with NO case airflow? doubtful.

Would the VRM torture test do better on the Z790 Carbon?

I don't have the Z790 on hand, but it seems to be using the same heatsink and gained 1 extra phase. I would say the results would be similar if you did the same thing of 320W load on Prime95 with 1.35V. (doesn't matter the CPU really).

 

[techvslife]

Thank you! I will be pushing this hard (all cores at max), but not overclock (or only the safest and smallest, as I loathe crashes, esp. hardware-related ones). My view is, cooler while tortured indicates a better design. But MSI claims the z790 vs z690 VRM thermal difference is this, but I have no idea if their "huge advances" are more marketing fluff than real:

The huge advances in MSI Z790 motherboards' power design also come with an equally impressive thermal solution for a better OC performance. While the brand new U-shaped heatsink covers all of the VRM components including the capacitors on all three sides, the two heat pipes integrated within ensure that the produced heat is transferred quickly to the extended heatsink with an enlarged surface area for maximum heat dissipation. While the brand new U-shaped heatsink covers all of the VRM components including the capacitors on all three sides, the two heat pipes integrated within ensure that the produced heat is transferred quickly to the extended heatsink with an enlarged surface area for maximum heat dissipation.

https://us.msi.com/Landing/intel-13th-gen-raptor-lake-z790-b760-motherboard
https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-Z790-CARBON-WIFI
and

While our combination of a fin stack array heatsink and top-tier components already managed heat pretty well, we just can’t help but kick it up a notch with premium Z790 motherboards. A wavy fin stacked heatsink now further improves heat dissipation, thanks to the additional surface area. That’s not all, though! We’ve also added a cross heatpipe to efficiently transport heat away from power delivery components – allowing for better thermals and stability.

https://www.msi.com/blog/msi-z790-v-z690-motherboards-what-to-expect

I was a bit concerned by user posts like this on the z690 carbon:
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/crazy-pch-temperature-on-z690-carbon.370039/
But if MSI made changes that address things like that on the z790, that seems like a very good sign, so maybe I'll save a few bucks and go for the carbon (which is ATX also, rather than the Master's E-ATX).

 

[ir_cow]

I have no temp ref for the PCH. I generally do not monitor it. I would need to know the max safe temp for the silicon to have a opinion. Google says 75-80C. That could be for just one chipset 10 years ago, or just Intel or AMD. I don't like to accept random internet numbers unless I have factual evidence.

I guess I could just destroy one by removing the heatsink and see where it dies....

Thank you! I will be pushing this hard (all cores at max), but not overclock (or only the safest and smallest, as I loathe crashes, esp. hardware-related ones). My view is, cooler while tortured indicates a better design. But MSI claims the z790 vs z690 VRM thermal difference is this, but I have no idea if their "huge advances" are more marketing fluff than real:

The Carbon looks to have the same heatsink design from the pictures. Maybe its better..idk. Couldn't tell you without it in hand. I'm testing the Z790 Ace right now (different heatsink).

 

[techvslife]

Thank you, I look forward to seeing your tests on the ACE and the other new (and expensive!) z790 boards. I just went to the store and picked up the Carbon z790, because it's ATX, was on "sale," and the store this year has had fewer returns on boards from MSI. Also it's vaguely reassuring MSI (unlike Gigabyte) hasn't shut down their support forum. I'll report if I have any problems.

btw, here's one review covering the difference between the z690 and z790 Carbon (and claiming for one thing that the z790 Carbon incorporates some elements of the z690 ACE):

The last generation Z690 Carbon came with a rather chonky power delivery subsystem using 18(+1+1), 75 Amp Renesas RAA220075 on an all-digital 20-phase Renesas RAA229131 PWM IC. It was big, it was rather beefy, and it was more than up to the task of handling last gen i9s at moderately high overclocks. It however did get a bit poo-poo’ed in certain circles. Circles with unrealistic expectations from mid-range motherboards… and no memory for how things were back in the HEDT days (e.g. ASUS ‘Tuf’ with a VRM that was maybe a third as capable as the MSI Z690 Carbon’s VRM).

In either case… MSI’s design team took it personally. Therefore, this generation not only increases it from 18 phases to 19, the 75 Amp Renesas have been swapped out for 105Amp Renesas RAA2201054’ers. AKA a similar configuration to what MSI used on their Z690 MEG ACE motherboard. Put bluntly, we ran many an X299 system pushing overclocked (~450 watts) CPUs on motherboards that had poorer VRM than this board has. Needless to say, it is noticeably better than the Asus STRIX Z790-E and its relatively wimpy 18-phase, 90Amp configuration.

To further keep things cool, calm and collected MSI has further increased / enhanced the VRM heatsinks (but kept the four already good 7W/mK thermal pads). As with the past gen they are connected to each other via a heat pipe, but the mass of them has been increased for this generation. To be precise the VRM heatsink tips the scales in at 476.25grams (or 1.05 pounds). Increased mass + increased size means lower temperatures inside cases with even a semblance of decent air flow.

https://realhardwarereviews.com/msi-mpg-z790-carbon-wifi-review/5/

 

[ir_cow]

btw, here's one review covering the difference between the z690 and z790 Carbon (and claiming for one thing that the z790 Carbon incorporates some elements of the z690 ACE):

Interesting. I can't get a read on the picture but the article says 19 phase 105A now. Heatsink looks slightly beefier, but those higher amp power stages will degrease the the thermal load a bit. But if you actually tried to put 105A load on them, it would just explode with that cooling solution. Same goes for many others. The power delivery is overkill at this point.