TPU's Nostalgic Hardware Club

[Veseleil]

You mean, this keyboard right here?


Yes I actually had one, myself! As you can probably tell from the photo, it was used in parallel with the other BTC keyboard, the one I recently found & restored.

Seems that BTC doesn't exist anymore. And the "BTC" naming makes it even harder in web search. I was wrong though, it's actually a dome with sliders keyboard. Any particular info about BTC I should know about? BTW I like your setup, and the mentioned KB seems to be used a lot, I can see the silver paint stripped under the arrow keys.

Edit: Found the website

BTC英群企業股份有限公司 │ EMS 專業代工 │ 智慧控制 │ 智慧影音 │ LED Lighting

英群/鈺群企業累積了多年電子代工專業技能,專精EMS代工.SMT代工推薦,DIP,組裝.測試,包裝,OEM全製程服務,近年更因應全球環保意識,發展各式節能標章LED室內照明產品,未來將持續發展智能照明及其系統,營業項目包含停車場節能標章、節能補助led燈管推薦,燈具推薦,天井燈,無塵室黃光燈等,嚴格要求為客戶提供、推薦最優良的品質及最好的服務,成為客戶加工夥伴為我司努力目標

www.btc.com.tw

And a wiki:

Behavior Tech Computer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TRWOV]

I have just bought this Asus P8H61-MX with a i5 2400 and a want to update the CPU at a later date.What i want to ask is the difference between a CPU with s. at the end of the CPU?I managed to get another £1 off on top of the £4 he had offered me.


View attachment 278182

The S means it's a 65w CPU. Regular 95w 2400 runs at 3.1GHz while the s-version runs at 2.5Ghz.

There's also T versions which are rated at 35w.

 

[Greenslade]

The S means it's a 65w CPU. Regular 95w 2400 runs at 3.1GHz while the s-version runs at 2.5Ghz.

There's also T versions which are rated at 35w.

​

So that is the only difference why they say the s is better than the non s version.Lower power.Mind you in the energy crises we have in the UK the lower the better. Thanks for your answer TRWOV . eBay i just put on a refund for something i have not received.The Postal service here in the uk have been striking, so post has been taking longer.But i have given this seller two months before i asked for a refund.But he has only given me a partial refund of £9.94 the full amount should be £15.94.If that was Amazon i would have got a full refund.It is not my fault i have not received it.

 

[Trekkie4]

Seems that BTC doesn't exist anymore. And the "BTC" naming makes it even harder in web search. I was wrong though, it's actually a dome with sliders keyboard. Any particular info about BTC I should know about? BTW I like your setup, and the mentioned KB seems to be used a lot, I can see the silver paint stripped under the arrow keys.

Edit: Found the website

BTC英群企業股份有限公司 │ EMS 專業代工 │ 智慧控制 │ 智慧影音 │ LED Lighting

英群/鈺群企業累積了多年電子代工專業技能,專精EMS代工.SMT代工推薦,DIP,組裝.測試,包裝,OEM全製程服務,近年更因應全球環保意識,發展各式節能標章LED室內照明產品,未來將持續發展智能照明及其系統,營業項目包含停車場節能標章、節能補助led燈管推薦,燈具推薦,天井燈,無塵室黃光燈等,嚴格要求為客戶提供、推薦最優良的品質及最好的服務,成為客戶加工夥伴為我司努力目標

www.btc.com.tw

And a wiki:

Behavior Tech Computer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, BTC was a huge company back in a day, known for their optical drives. I already mentioned their CD-ROM drives in this very thread countless of times, and from what I can tell they're not exactly known (and remembered) kindly by most of the folks. In fact, most of them refer to BTC as junk & low budget crap which (in my opinion) isn't fair or even accurate to begin with.


But yes, BTC (Behavior Tech Computer) also made & designed some of the other components such as mice, keyboards & sound cards. Some of these were just simply re-labeled BTC by them (but actually made by someone else), while some components (keyboards & optical drives in particular) were made specifically by them, but they were hugely popular some time between the early 90s and early 2000s. Soon after ... around 2006, 2007 it would seem they've given up & disappeared from the scene never to be seen or heard from again. Of course, if you Google for "BTC" nowdays you're only going to find BitCoin stuff, as if BTC corporation never existed which is kinda sad if you ask me

As for the keyboard from my photo, yes - it was already pretty worn around the arrow keys in 2004 and was eventually replaced with cheap, generic keyboard in 2006. It really looked kinda cool (I'll give you that), but it didn't have anything "special" to it, which would make me want to buy the same one, again. Where on the other hand, "8110" (that ergonomic keyboard from the previous page) had ... and still has quite unique layout which isn't exactly common or standard nowdays, and is considered pretty rare.

 

[MachineLearning]

Hi everyone

I don't know why, but I have a strange obsession with mediocre motherboards. Especially Foxconn and Intel boards, which enthusiasts largely ignored even in their heydays. After playing around with the Bad Axe 2, I was hooked, because I really had low expectations for the board and it exceeded them - Bonetrail had to be next. Smackover 1 & 2 are in the future... and that will make my Intel board collection complete.

Teased at IDF 2007, Bonetrail in the form of the DX38BT was the successor to the aforementioned D975XBX2/KR. Despite nearly a two years' gap, the layout of Bonetrail is strikingly similar to the Bad Axe.
Bonetrail:

Bad Axe 2:

In my opinion, Bonetrail looks far more organized and finished than the Bad Axe, except for the barren rear I/O spot.

Looking closer, there have been numerous additions and omissions, most notably the absence of floppy or PS/2 connectors on Bonetrail. Also, a lot of minor components have been shifted around, such as the 4-pin molex, EPS, & ATX 24-pin. The northbridge uses a far better retention system in my opinion, using screws and a small metal bracket instead of flimsy plastic U-bars.

It sort of looks like a mini socket 370 / 462 heatsink + bracket. I like the rear metal retention plate.
PWM cooling may now be removed, Intel decided to use push-pins (albeit weird ones with a throughpin) instead of thermal adhesive.

CPU power delivery is a true 5-phase PWM controlled by an ADP3189, on both boards. However, while I haven't removed the Bad Axe's VRM heatsinks to see what makes up each phase, I can guarantee it's organized differently than Bonetrail. On the Bad Axe, the MOSFETs are double the height - plus, Bonetrail has 4 MOSFETs/phase while Bad Axe only has 3 FETs per phase.

Per phase: 2x Infineon 79N03S (40A) & 2x OnSemi 4835N (104A).

Capacitors are from:
- Rubycon
- Nichicon
- Fujitsu
- Panasonic / Sanyo
- SamXon

The northbridge was produced Wk36/2008, and the southbridge Wk31/2008. The PCB date code is a surprise - it's nearly a full year before either other component (Wk50/2007). Just as with the Bad Axe, I can't find a PCB layer count, but I assume it's a 6-layer.

I replaced both the NB & SB paste with MX-4, and gave each phase its own 1.0mm Arctic APT2560 (now TP-2) thermal pad. I also attached a 40mm Noctua which I had on-hand to the NB.

Overclocking
--- 555.98 MHz, #1 for board, top 100 X38
hwbot.org/submission/5163725_
Memory:
~ 1800 DR Dual-channel
~ 1900 SR Dual-channel
~ 2050+ SR Single-channel
Will POST 2200MHz 1/3 times, but will never get into windows.
--- 2080 MHz DDR3 (SR, Single-channel, slot #0)
hwbot.org/submission/5165540_

This motherboard does significantly better than I assumed it would. The 556MHz FSB makes it the top Intel-branded motherboard in that regard. The DX38BT and DX48BT2 are identical except for the chipset, so I thought the DX38BT would just be inherently worse due to Intel handicapping it. Surprisingly, it seems that's not the case, and any issues with the board are probably due to ineptitude rather than sabotage. In fact, both boards use the exact same BIOS, with the only assumed difference being different internal MCH timings.
I discovered that at 550MHz, there is a wall for 1333MHz FSB CPUs. Macsbeach98 recommended BCLK modding the CPU, and it worked like a dream. This is because the clockgen (SLG505YC256BT) will only allow ~ 550MHz - 720MHz to be selected if it believes there's a 1600MHz FSB CPU socketed. However, 550 MHz is already close to the board's maximum - at least with the 1.7v limit in BIOS. I fully intend on modding the NB voltage (controller: Intersil ISL6545) after I learn from GTX 260 modding.

Also, I gave a random Q9550 a go - it became unhappy at around 480MHz... Well, it's surely no Gigabyte P45.

Intel Integrator Toolkit 4.x still works with this board just like the Bad Axe 2. So of course, I made a custom BIOS that makes OC go a bit more smoothly. Loading Optimal Defaults will make the board ready for OC, including disabling watchdog timer, eSATA / IDE, and other unnecessary onboard devices. However, I didn't bother making a changelog this time around, since I don't think it's all that important here. If anyone is interested in all my changes, opening up the supplied .ITW file in ITK will show what has been changed from default.

Links:
- Warp9 Intel Bonetrail BIOS (works for both DX38BT & DX48BT2)
- Intel Integrator Toolkit 4.0.1.258
- Intel Desktop Control Center 4.2.0.769
- All stock Bonetrail BIOSes

It may take me a massive amount of time, but I do eventually intend on taking a look at:
- Abit AN7
- Abit IS7-E
- ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
- MSI K8N Neo3-F
- *Potential* DX58SO, DX58SO2

 

[Trekkie4]

Here's (even) more BTC-related material ... since you guys seem to enjoy it so much
A "stack" of BCD XH drives (Hitachi Loader), imported from the USA:


The loading tray for XH series uses one of the most complicated (yet extremely durable) parts & arrangements:

A brand new, never-used BTC optical mouse & still inside its original box. I'm saving this one for a VERY special occasion which may (or may not) happen some time in 2023 ... mostly depending on my financial situation:

 

[Greenslade]

Can i use a Rev NO. on a E1 motherboard?All though someone had used a REV NO on a 61.-mx board on user benchmark site.
This one i5 3570 REV NO all though i5 3570k is E1 is a supported cpu for my motherboard.

The first ever GeForce GPU in 1999​

 

[İsmailTPC_Hastanesi]

Hi everyone

I don't know why, but I have a strange obsession with mediocre motherboards. Especially Foxconn and Intel boards, which enthusiasts largely ignored even in their heydays. After playing around with the Bad Axe 2, I was hooked, because I really had low expectations for the board and it exceeded them - Bonetrail had to be next. Smackover 1 & 2 are in the future... and that will make my Intel board collection complete.

Teased at IDF 2007, Bonetrail in the form of the DX38BT was the successor to the aforementioned D975XBX2/KR. Despite nearly a two years' gap, the layout of Bonetrail is strikingly similar to the Bad Axe.
Bonetrail:

Bad Axe 2:

In my opinion, Bonetrail looks far more organized and finished than the Bad Axe, except for the barren rear I/O spot.

Looking closer, there have been numerous additions and omissions, most notably the absence of floppy or PS/2 connectors on Bonetrail. Also, a lot of minor components have been shifted around, such as the 4-pin molex, EPS, & ATX 24-pin. The northbridge uses a far better retention system in my opinion, using screws and a small metal bracket instead of flimsy plastic U-bars.

It sort of looks like a mini socket 370 / 462 heatsink + bracket. I like the rear metal retention plate.
PWM cooling may now be removed, Intel decided to use push-pins (albeit weird ones with a throughpin) instead of thermal adhesive.

CPU power delivery is a true 5-phase PWM controlled by an ADP3189, on both boards. However, while I haven't removed the Bad Axe's VRM heatsinks to see what makes up each phase, I can guarantee it's organized differently than Bonetrail. On the Bad Axe, the MOSFETs are double the height - plus, Bonetrail has 4 MOSFETs/phase while Bad Axe only has 3 FETs per phase.

Per phase: 2x Infineon 79N03S (40A) & 2x OnSemi 4835N (104A).

Capacitors are from:
- Rubycon
- Nichicon
- Fujitsu
- Panasonic / Sanyo
- SamXon

The northbridge was produced Wk36/2008, and the southbridge Wk31/2008. The PCB date code is a surprise - it's nearly a full year before either other component (Wk50/2007). Just as with the Bad Axe, I can't find a PCB layer count, but I assume it's a 6-layer.

I replaced both the NB & SB paste with MX-4, and gave each phase its own 1.0mm Arctic APT2560 (now TP-2) thermal pad. I also attached a 40mm Noctua which I had on-hand to the NB.

View attachment 278224

Overclocking
--- 555.98 MHz, #1 for board, top 100 X38
hwbot.org/submission/5163725_
Memory:
~ 1800 DR Dual-channel
~ 1900 SR Dual-channel
~ 2050+ SR Single-channel
Will POST 2200MHz 1/3 times, but will never get into windows.
--- 2080 MHz DDR3 (SR, Single-channel, slot #0)
hwbot.org/submission/5165540_

This motherboard does significantly better than I assumed it would. The 556MHz FSB makes it the top Intel-branded motherboard in that regard. The DX38BT and DX48BT2 are identical except for the chipset, so I thought the DX38BT would just be inherently worse due to Intel handicapping it. Surprisingly, it seems that's not the case, and any issues with the board are probably due to ineptitude rather than sabotage. In fact, both boards use the exact same BIOS, with the only assumed difference being different internal MCH timings.
I discovered that at 550MHz, there is a wall for 1333MHz FSB CPUs. Macsbeach98 recommended BCLK modding the CPU, and it worked like a dream. This is because the clockgen (SLG505YC256BT) will only allow ~ 550MHz - 720MHz to be selected if it believes there's a 1600MHz FSB CPU socketed. However, 550 MHz is already close to the board's maximum - at least with the 1.7v limit in BIOS. I fully intend on modding the NB voltage (controller: Intersil ISL6545) after I learn from GTX 260 modding.

Also, I gave a random Q9550 a go - it became unhappy at around 480MHz... Well, it's surely no Gigabyte P45.

Intel Integrator Toolkit 4.x still works with this board just like the Bad Axe 2. So of course, I made a custom BIOS that makes OC go a bit more smoothly. Loading Optimal Defaults will make the board ready for OC, including disabling watchdog timer, eSATA / IDE, and other unnecessary onboard devices. However, I didn't bother making a changelog this time around, since I don't think it's all that important here. If anyone is interested in all my changes, opening up the supplied .ITW file in ITK will show what has been changed from default.

Links:
- Warp9 Intel Bonetrail BIOS (works for both DX38BT & DX48BT2)
- Intel Integrator Toolkit 4.0.1.258
- Intel Desktop Control Center 4.2.0.769
- All stock Bonetrail BIOSes

It may take me a massive amount of time, but I do eventually intend on taking a look at:
- Abit AN7
- Abit IS7-E
- ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
- MSI K8N Neo3-F
- *Potential* DX58SO, DX58SO2

If you allow me, I would like to support your work.
How will this be?
I can prepare a Bios file that supports NVMe SSD drives for the 2 motherboards you listed below.
All I need is the hardware credentials of the NVMe SSD drive you are using.
I can inject NVMe SSD modules into the motherboard's bios file.
It will be very interesting and surprising.

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
MSI K8N Neo3-F

 

[MachineLearning]

If you allow me, I would like to support your work.
How will this be?
I can prepare a Bios file that supports NVMe SSD drives for the 2 motherboards you listed below.
All I need is the hardware credentials of the NVMe SSD drive you are using.
I can inject NVMe SSD modules into the motherboard's bios file.
It will be very interesting and surprising.

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
MSI K8N Neo3-F

Thank you kindly, Ismail. I sincerely appreciate your efforts and support.

The two modules will be:

PCI\VEN_10EC&DEV_5763
PCI\VEN_144D&DEV_A804

What an interesting experiment for those two boards! I will report back with photos and results ASAP.

- Additionally, you can expect the X58 Classified3 NVMe results by the end of this week.

 

[İsmailTPC_Hastanesi]

Thank you kindly, Ismail. I sincerely appreciate your efforts and support.

The two modules will be:

What an interesting experiment for those two boards! I will report back with photos and results ASAP.

- Additionally, you can expect the X58 Classified3 NVMe results by the end of this week.

Ok, the information has been received and the files will be ready as soon as possible..
What I'm most curious about here is the NVMe SSD drive speeds for the MSI K8N Neo3-F motherboard.
It is interesting that this motherboard has both a PCIExpress slot and an MSI AGR (Advance Graphics Riser) slot.

 

[MachineLearning]

Ok, the information has been received and the files will be ready as soon as possible..
What I'm most curious about here is the NVMe SSD drive speeds for the MSI K8N Neo3-F motherboard.
It is interesting that this motherboard has both a PCIExpress slot and an MSI AGR (Advance Graphics Riser) slot.

I will run CrystalDiskMark on all three boards so we can see how they do.

Something else important, is if the AGR slot & PCIe x16 slot may be used in tandem. I don't have any PCIe x1 graphics-cards, but I can try a PCI one. Otherwise, I run out of slots on the Neo3-F.

 

[MaxiPro800]

Another set of oldies but goldies I took out from the storage. ASUS P5B, a HD4850 (also by ASUS, lol) and a Q6600.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Another set of oldies but goldies I took out from the storage. ASUS P5B, a HD4850 (also by ASUS, lol) and a Q6600.

Ah, that ASUS yellow... Didn't like it then, still dislike it now!

 

[MaxiPro800]

Honestly, not a fan of it either - but considering I had the Plus variant that was dead, having a vanilla P5B alone was something. That, and it's probably among the most modded boards I could ever think of.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Honestly, not a fan of it either - but considering I had the Plus variant that was dead, having a vanilla P5B alone was something. That, and it's probably among the most modded boards I could ever think of.

Oh of course! It's a badass board. It's just ugly. It was their stupidly ugly hallmark colour.

 

[MaxiPro800]

Oh of course! It's a badass board. It's just ugly. It was their stupidly ugly hallmark colour.

Some DFI and Winfast-branded Foxconns also had this color scheme, more or less as well. I have a Infinity NF4 SLi in storage (which I might ressurect out of storage if I can find at least a cheap 939 x2 chip as well) that's about the same color as the ASUS.

For a fact, ASUS kept that gold colour to a degree, while DFI's take seems to have some slight green tinge to it in some places (where there aren't any traces running.)

As for Foxconn, the only I've seen to bear that colour were usually Winfast boards from the 462 and 754/939 era. Their 478 and 775 mobos were blue and the few AM2s I've seen from Winfast (of which I have one waiting for parts) had a orange-ish PCB.

Another option would have been a G41+DDR3 based ECS. Unfortunately, it's so severely crippled that any RAM I throw at it runs at 800MHz, and the BIOS is an obscenely lackluster AMIBIOS implementation. Maybe I'll try to trade it for a MSI G41T-P23, who knows. Also have a GB G41 Combo which has DDR3 and DDR2, but yet again, it's crippled by poor VRM design (originally had a Q8300 that was burning the FETs from too much power draw - you can imagine how crappy of a board it is if even as much as a 65nm C2D has troubles running on it.)

 

[stinger608]

if I can find at least a cheap 939 x2 chip as well

Dang, wish you were in the US. I still have 3 or 4 939 x2 chips and I'd just send ya one.

 

[MaxiPro800]

Welp, got the P5B up and running.

Note to self: never ever use a 2004 Raptor as main OS drive ever again. I feel like even a laptop drive would've been a faster choice than this Raptor, despite being 10k RPM. Will probably keep them for the DFI nF4 machine that I'm gonna build. At best, if I can't find any x2 (the only I found so far are complete kits on a rather barren Gigabyte mobo, and the price doesn't seem worth it for me), I still seem to have a pair of 3500s. No idea where they came from, but I guess they'll do just fine with a HD4650 and a random run of 512MB sticks.

 

[Greenslade]

What does Rev N mean?All the cpus for my board

ASUS P8H61-MX CPU compatibility list​

apart from the one i would go for
Core i5-3570 (3.4G,L3:6M,iGPU,4C,VT-d,77W,rev.N0)
This one is not supported on my Motherboard it seems to be the only one that doesn,t The IVY BRIDGE have an E1.
Intel Xeon E3-1230 v3 3 this one is but at £30 that is to exspencive.

 

[Veseleil]

To continue in the the LGA 775 spirit, I found this on the market, all quite cheap:



Luckily my wallet is empty ATM. Any thoughts? I know the first one is a must buy though.

Edit: left photos only of the suggested ones, for my own future reference.

 

[stinger608]

Oh man @Veseleil , the Rampage Formula's are hard to find. That would be awesome if you can pick that one alone.

 

[68Olds]

I still used my Rampage Formula with a q9650 & a GTX 970 for folding@home until I switched to the RX6800XT in my primary rig. That was a fun system when it was my gamer.

 

[MachineLearning]

Rampage Formula, EP35-DS4, and P5E3 Deluxe are the good ones there IMO. P5E3 Deluxe can be flashed to the X48 Premium.

 

[MaxiPro800]

Rampage Formula, EP35-DS4, P5B Deluxe and P5E3 Deluxe would be my choices too.

 

[Veseleil]

Actually there are 2 rampage formulas, it's just a different sticker on the south bridge (the second one)?
@stinger608 @MachineLearning @MaxiPro800 thanks for the info, I'll keep that in mind (and buy a few as soon as i can).