You don't need high voltages on the 5800X3D

[CiroDiMarzioIT]

So i have been playing with zen3 for quite a while now, first the 5600x and for the last couple of months with the 5800X3D. I spend days and nights of trying to achieve the maximum performance out of these cpu's. I'm not proud of this no-life behaviour, but i did this so you don't have to. You're welcome btw. I can't help noticing that a lot of advices here on reddit are straight up bullsh*t. Soc voltage of above 1.1000, curve optimizer (good luck with that...) and higher PBO limits. Haha. All of this so you can have some slightly higher numbers in cinebench and less performance in games.

Since im not greedy i would like to share my knowledge to all of you.

I took the first place on userbenchmark for this cpu (even if the owners of this site are a bunch of intel fanboys) and for some reason they are ignoring my first place on their leaderloserboard
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/58047177

For 3dmark Firestrike it's the fastest 5800x3d and 6700xt combo in the world.
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/29046996

3dmark CPU profile
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/86909361

CPU-Z result: 632/6502

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4465.15 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[wl2vxp] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2023-01-05 07:21:53) - MB: MSI MPG B550 GAMING PLUS (MS-7C56) - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

This may not mean much in general, but it shows i'm not doing it wrong...

First of all:

- Get cheap Samsung B Die sticks (i recommend Gskill FlareX, take the fugly headspreaders off for
better temps and sexy naked look) set them to 3600-3733 range. cl15 will do just fine. Since im running 4 modules i think putting cl14 is to much for the memory controller.

- The bios: get the bios with AGESA 1.2.0.6c and disable TPM. All other bios versions suck but AGESA 1.2.0.7 deserves some special attention since it's the worst bios ever made... it makes PBO irrelevant. It will barely boost above stock frequencies. JUST DONT USE THIS.

- Make sure the FCLK is the same as memory clock.

- Set the gpu in pcie 3.0 mode instead of 4.0. (we do this for the next step)

- Raise the FCLK to 100.98 just one step below 101, this will prevent your nvme disks to die and your
gpu will stay reliable)

- Set soc voltage of 1.000 for 5800x3d, for other Zen3 cpu's i would start with 1.050

- VDDP voltage to 0.9

- VDDG CCD 0,95 and VDDG IOD 0,99

- For memory set: ProcODT 36,9 - 40 - 43 (recommendation: 40)

- Feel free to use the timings for the above zentimings screenshot, just go easy on the trfc

- Disable spread spectrum

- Enable CPPC

- Disable CPPC Preferred Cores

- Disable SMT

- Forget about memory speeds of 3800 and higher. This cpu actually does 3800 fclk without whea errors but there are no benefits at all. Just don't bother with that.

With these settings the Dark Rock Pro4 never ran above 900 rpm during prime95 while keeping the cpu under 80c. Ingame it runs between 650-800 rpm.

Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?

Some will disagree on the raising the FCLK part. It's a personal choice. If you have a non NVMe ssd, you can raise it further and you'll be the king of the leaderboards everywhere.

 

[3x0]

Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?

High voltages? Curve Optimizer lowers voltages for a given frequency

 

[damric]

Confusing base clock with fabric clock?

Anyways, if you know what you are doing you can raise base clock to about 104 without dropping PCIE speed.

Also those specific voltages and settings won't work on every 5800x3d because there are simply too many quality variations, so it's just poor advice to mislead. Who uses userbenchmark? Try HWBOT.

 

[3x0]

Anyways, if you know what you are doing you can raise base clock to about 104 without dropping PCIE speed.

Is there any tweaking to do voltage wise if 102 BCLK is bootable but has weird stutters/lag with mouse movement during load?

 

[GerKNG]

I can't help noticing that a lot of advices here on reddit are straight up bullsh*t.

Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?

the voltage is hard locked in the silicon.
curve optimizer has no influence on voltage... it only moves the Frequency in the V/F Curve. the Peak and Bottom is identical. (on every ryzen CPU)
"Higher PBO Limits"
what Limits? Scalar is locked, Clock offsets are locked and Powerlimit makes no sense since this chip can't even pull 140W in P95.
PCie 3.0 for a tiny BCLK OC?
Disable SMT? = worse performance across the board in almost every game and application except a handful of cherry picked titles.
i have two 5800X3Ds and tested a bunch of RAM configurations. not just that a crappy 3200mb/s XMP kit and a hand tuned 3800 Kit is within like 2-3% at best. tight timing single rank dimms perform worse with that chip compared to almost any somewhat solid dual rank kit. (except you can reach 2GHz FCLK.)

 

[CiroDiMarzioIT]

I meant with voltages the soc voltage and the vddp and vddg's.
The only reason i dont go above bclk 101 anymore is because at 102 i had a crash and windows wouldn't boot anymore... i had to go to the bios and change the boot order.
I don't really see a difference between pcie 3.0 and 4.0 at this point either, in the future with faster cards it will be there. Plenty youtube vids out there that will show this.
The memory is something that was more needed for the previous cpu but i see no reason to replace it with the 7800x3d coming soon and ddr5 getting better.
If you google this SMT stuff i see more people saying off then on.

That you have two 5800x3ds and have tested some ram configurations is fantastic but not very relevant since this topic is about voltages.
My point is that the cpu works as expected, stays cool and with lowering the soc voltages you gonna save some watts.

Since the Germans are kicking out entire villages so they can make oldschool power again i think this might be the next thing you should do with your 5800x3d's.

 

[freeagent]

Cool thanks for sharing

 

[tabascosauz]

I meant with voltages the soc voltage and the vddp and vddg's.
The only reason i dont go above bclk 101 anymore is because at 102 i had a crash and windows wouldn't boot anymore... i had to go to the bios and change the boot order.
I don't really see a difference between pcie 3.0 and 4.0 at this point either, in the future with faster cards it will be there. Plenty youtube vids out there that will show this.
The memory is something that was more needed for the previous cpu but i see no reason to replace it with the 7800x3d coming soon and ddr5 getting better.
If you google this SMT stuff i see more people saying off then on.

That you have two 5800x3ds and have tested some ram configurations is fantastic but not very relevant to since this topic is about voltages.
My point is that the cpu works as expected, stays cool and with lowering the soc voltages you gonna save some watts.

Since the Germans are kicking out entire villages so they can make oldschool power again i think this might be the next thing you should do with your 5800x3d's.

VSOC and VDDGs are not something you can just tell people to run...........this advice is no better than the bad reddit advice you deride. They'll run whatever the silicon lottery allows them to run. This is not something unique to the 5800X3D and has always been true since Ryzen 3000, there's always a huge variation from chip to chip in IO die and Fabric quality. There is no shortage of people with Matisse/Vermeer/Vermeer-X CPUs that need 1.1V+ VSOC and VDDG_IOD over 1.0 just to sustain 3600 or 3733.

CPPC on/Preferred cores off is the go-to for months now on 5800X3D, but I don't think I have to explain why SMT off is a hugely problematic recommendation. Play a broader range of games if you think SMT off is a good idea.

Lowering VSOC to gain core power budget is a good idea but it only really works when limited by PPT (ie. user intentionally sets lower limits that will actually be reached). 142W PPT for 5800X3D is basically unattainable by reasonable means, so it really doesn't mean as much as it does for other Zen 3 CPUs.

 

[damric]

Is there any tweaking to do voltage wise if 102 BCLK is bootable but has weird stutters/lag with mouse movement during load?

Yes it's called tune your platform. On AM4, the base clock affects pretty much everything. I usually see SATA acting up first before PCI, but often people don't understand that RAM might need to be retuned.

 

[freeagent]

I pretty much disagree with everything in the OP.

But it was a cool story bro

 

[3x0]

Yes it's called tune your platform. On AM4, the base clock affects pretty much everything. I usually see SATA acting up first before PCI, but often people don't understand that RAM might need to be retuned.

Thanks for replying. RAM isn't the problem for me, @102 bclk mouse stutters, GPU drops out and driver crashes with display resolution being low. I guess 102+ is a no go for me unless I try dropping PCIe gen 4

 

[Blaeza]

So i have been playing with zen3 for quite a while now, first the 5600x and for the last couple of months with the 5800X3D. I spend days and nights of trying to achieve the maximum performance out of these cpu's. I'm not proud of this no-life behaviour, but i did this so you don't have to. You're welcome btw. I can't help noticing that a lot of advices here on reddit are straight up bullsh*t. Soc voltage of above 1.1000, curve optimizer (good luck with that...) and higher PBO limits. Haha. All of this so you can have some slightly higher numbers in cinebench and less performance in games.

Since im not greedy i would like to share my knowledge to all of you.

I took the first place on userbenchmark for this cpu (even if the owners of this site are a bunch of intel fanboys) and for some reason they are ignoring my first place on their leaderloserboard
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/58047177

For 3dmark Firestrike it's the fastest 5800x3d and 6700xt combo in the world.
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/29046996

3dmark CPU profile
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/86909361

CPU-Z result: 632/6502

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D @ 4465.15 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

[wl2vxp] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2023-01-05 07:21:53) - MB: MSI MPG B550 GAMING PLUS (MS-7C56) - RAM: 32768 MB

valid.x86.fr

This may not mean much in general, but it shows i'm not doing it wrong...


View attachment 278469
View attachment 278468
First of all:

- Get cheap Samsung B Die sticks (i recommend Gskill FlareX, take the fugly headspreaders off for
better temps and sexy naked look) set them to 3600-3733 range. cl15 will do just fine. Since im running 4 modules i think putting cl14 is to much for the memory controller.

- The bios: get the bios with AGESA 1.2.0.6c and disable TPM. All other bios versions suck but AGESA 1.2.0.7 deserves some special attention since it's the worst bios ever made... it makes PBO irrelevant. It will barely boost above stock frequencies. JUST DONT USE THIS.

- Make sure the FCLK is the same as memory clock.

- Set the gpu in pcie 3.0 mode instead of 4.0. (we do this for the next step)

- Raise the FCLK to 100.98 just one step below 101, this will prevent your nvme disks to die and your
gpu will stay reliable)

- Set soc voltage of 1.000 for 5800x3d, for other Zen3 cpu's i would start with 1.050

- VDDP voltage to 0.9

- VDDG CCD 0,95 and VDDG IOD 0,99

- For memory set: ProcODT 36,9 - 40 - 43 (recommendation: 40)

- Feel free to use the timings for the above zentimings screenshot, just go easy on the trfc

- Disable spread spectrum

- Enable CPPC

- Disable CPPC Preferred Cores

- Disable SMT

- Forget about memory speeds of 3800 and higher. This cpu actually does 3800 fclk without whea errors but there are no benefits at all. Just don't bother with that.

With these settings the Dark Rock Pro4 never ran above 900 rpm during prime95 while keeping the cpu under 80c. Ingame it runs between 650-800 rpm.

Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?

Some will disagree on the raising the FCLK part. It's a personal choice. If you have a non NVMe ssd, you can raise it further and you'll be the king of the leaderboards everywhere.

When I very first read this post, I thought to myself "He seems a knowledgeable chap, how long before all the brainiacs absolutely shit on him?" Turns out it wasn't very long.

 

[damric]

When I very first read this post, I thought to myself "He seems a knowledgeable chap, how long before all the brainiacs absolutely shit on him?" Turns out it wasn't very long.

Well I had a turd locked and loaded, and saw the opportunity. Time to flush it away.

 

[Blaeza]

Well I had a turd locked and loaded, and saw the opportunity. Time to flush it away.

Maybe on other sites, he wasn't questioned and was congratulated instead? Then OP came here and thought "I hope everyone likes my findings." which soon turned to "Why did I go on TPU?" This does seem to be a hard place to just come and state your opinions, only to have them shot down by the guru's who have all the knowledge.

 

[Udyr]

You're welcome btw
Haha
Since im not greedy i would like to share my knowledge to all of you.
I took the first place on userbenchmark for this cpu (even if the owners of this site are a bunch of intel fanboys) and for some reason they are ignoring my first place on their leaderloserboard
king of the leaderboards everywhere.

All these were red flags when I read the post, especially from a new member.

Welcome, by the way.

 

[freeagent]

Its all good, but everyone has different results because each chip is different. What works for you might not work for someone else, and vice versa. I went about tuning my X3D in a different way and got my results, just like every other X3D owner who did not reply to this thread.

 

[GerKNG]

That you have two 5800x3ds and have tested some ram configurations is fantastic but not very relevant since this topic is about voltages.

everything you claimed is nonsense since you can NOT increase the stock voltage by a single mv like you said "Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?"

Since the Germans are kicking out entire villages so they can make oldschool power again i think this might be the next thing you should do with your 5800x3d's.

and i seem to hit a nerve already after your whole post is just some random pseudo knowledge gibberish.
great start on TPU.

 

[INSTG8R]

I mean my MSI has "Kombo Strike" which has 3 levels that basically mimic Curve Optimizer. -10 to -30 basically. I run Level 3 so -30 and I top out at maybe 1.31. I'd have to do some logging, just going by my LCDs monitor via AIDA64
Also coming from a 5600X which I ran at 1.35V

I pretty much disagree with everything in the OP.

But it was a cool story bro

This guy gets it

 

[freeagent]

I mean my MSI has "Kombo Strike" which has 3 levels that basically mimic Curve Optimizer. -10 to -30 basically.

Asus has CO available now as well. My chip was stable at -30, but for some reason I would occasionally get a higher R23 score with -25. Thanks to @tabascosauz for showing us that. I am fairly confident the chip would be ok at 4600MHz, they should have just left it. And I should have left mine because it wouldn't have those bent pins right now

 

[damric]

everything you claimed is nonsense since you can NOT increase the stock voltage by a single mv like you said "Why on earth are people messing with Curve Optimizer? Why such high voltages?"



and i seem to hit a nerve already after your whole post is just some random pseudo knowledge gibberish.
great start on TPU.

Lmao. If I ever unlock the custom title, it's going to be like:

damric
pseudo knowledge

 

[Othnark]

Props for hunting performant configurations instead of focusing on freq. Configuring your system to your cooling, use, and sample is always worth the time and effort.

All my #1 positions for 5800x3d on HWbot, OCCT benchmark rankings, Corona 1.3, 3dmark etc directly refute most of this post however, and your post indicates a flawed causal analysis. What I see, is an X3D being choked by heat, leveraging reduced voltage to gain more thermal headroom to improve effective clocks.

Claviger/tcclaviger across the rankings.

YOUR board may not have voltage control.
YOUR GPU may not like 102+ BCLK.
YOUR 5800X3D may not benefit from CO(directly impacted by the below).
YOUR cooling may not shift the volt/freq curve enough to benefit from more voltage.

5800X3D scales with voltage, like every other Zen2 and Zen3, to a point. What differs is the point when it stops scaling, it's not silicon quality limited, it's SMU limited by 1.3 latch voltage and fixed upper power limit.

Visible here: OCCT Result Over 142w

When you start pushing 105BCLK+ @ 1.3svi2tfn, you start running into the PPT wall.

I've been running 103.6+ BCLK since a week before x3d release, zero NVME corruption. It's drive/MB specific as to when it occurs. Same with GPU drop out, my 6950xt tolerates more BCLK than my CPU, my 3080ti throws fits past 104.2.

PS: If you think scoring high on X3D is as simple as ++ BCLK, send it, you're wildly mistaken. Until zen4 x3d release, zen3x3d was the CPU requiring the most finesse to get performance gains comensurate with the reported frequency gains.

PPS: CO does have an impact on voltage, indirectly. Since there no more freq headroom for most people, instead of voltage remaining constant and freq rising, freq stays constant and voltage drops. Different effect than X skus, for the same operation. It's ISO freq instead of ISO voltage.

 

[freeagent]

Yup, they love power, don’t take the power away

 

[Mussels]

You should join the Zen Garden thread
The thing is you can definitely undervolt the 5800x3D (I certainly have) but after a certain point it begins to downclock the CPU, so while it uses less and less power you lose performance at the same time


You asked a lot of questions that have been answered by numerous people testing these things - you also have some advice that just doesnt work, many motherboards if you adjust the BCLK even the tiniest amount, all CPU boosting is disabled and it's locked to base clock

 

[INSTG8R]

I just did a slight experiment with FClck as in 101, it did not go well...Sure I passed Timespy with a nice CPU score but then trying to even open R20 WIndows was already struggling and ready to crash. My GPU wasn't liking it much either...

 

[freeagent]

I would just go straight to 102.25 that should work a bit better. Could maybe use some extra vddg and soc..