Intel Reports Fourth-Quarter and Full-Year 2022 Financial Results, Largest Loss in Years

[damric]

This is what happens when you kick yourself in the balls with trade wars.

 

[Daven]

Yeah, I was very sus about those numbers seing as Radeon is finally being a very real competitive but it was what google gave me. My point was just that why would intel quit after a single generation when they even were able to bring some very interesting things to their product line!?



As said above, it's just the first generation product and they still need to incorporate competive solutions for the integrated soc's even if they were to drop the discrete part. It would make little sense to throw in the towell right away when they barely scratched the surface on what they can do.

And while the discrete graphics business is still a very small part of Intel's revenue, that's also a testament to the ammount of different things they do, their product portfolio is quite large, let's not try to create another "Google" that drops anything that doesn't make huge profits right away (to the point they're kind screwed if they're forced to breakup the ad business now)

Intel has cancelled Xeon Phi, Itanium, Larrabee, Optane, 5G modem and numerous CPUs such as Cannon Lake. They have yet to announce another customer beyond Argonne for Ponte Vecchio and they finally just updated their server lineup from the Skylake architecture after almost 5 years. The Icelake 2 socket stop gap barely did anything. And they are looking to offload Mobile Eye. I would hardly say this is a testament to anything and their product portfolio is shrinking and full of cancelled products to say the least. Not to mentioned long launch delays such as Arc.

 

[trsttte]

And they are looking to offload Mobile Eye

They launched an IPO of off it, I wouldn't call that offload, it has been a very successfull business venture. But yeah, the cpu/gpu roadmap has been full of bumpsin the road, but they also do (or bought) a lot of other things: fpgas, wireless chipsets and all kinds of network controllers, etc etc etc

Mobileye stock rises after earnings beat, ‘ramping volumes’

Shares of Mobileye Global Inc. were up 7% in premarket trading Thursday after the maker of autonomous-driving technology topped earnings and revenue...

www.marketwatch.com

I'm overall optimistic on the company, they are going through a rought patch but they have many advantages (some of them not exactly fair but yay for capitalism) that put them in very solid ground and aren't going out of business anytime soon

 

[prtskg]

I think you don't realize how profitable the Custom SoC market is an how Graphics IPs play a large part in it....AMD's Graphics IPs make it into many more products than just consumer GPUs.


"Lag behind in R&D..."....compared to whom? Intel's R&D budget is over $15 billion (Nvidia's is $5.27 Billion and AMD's $2 billion)....they're certainly not lagging behind with respect to financial resources, Intel's R&D budget make's AMD's look like pocket change. As for the "government funding" (I call it a huge corporate hand out with absolutely zero tangible benefits for the average working class person), Intel wanted it because they knew they could extort the money from the tax payer, and that once they got it they'd use it for huge bonuses and stock buy backs. There REALLY should have been some strict stipulations on that tax payer money (i.e. no mass layoffs for a stated period of time, no stock buy backs for a stated period of time, no bonuses for management, etc, etc, etc....personally, I think the American government shouldn't have given Intel any money and instead told Intel that if they DON'T build that fab in America, every subsidy would be cut, every tax loop hole, and the IRS would have a microscope up Intel's a** for the next ten years making sure they didn't owe a single penny....but that's just me.

You should check your R&D data. This quarter Intel is spending around $5.5B while AMD and Nvidia invested around 2.5B last quarter. They're getting closer with each quarter.

 

[Daven]

They launched an IPO of off it, I wouldn't call that offload, it has been a very successfull business venture. But yeah, the cpu/gpu roadmap has been full of bumpsin the road, but they also do (or bought) a lot of other things: fpgas, wireless chipsets and all kinds of network controllers, etc etc etc

Mobileye stock rises after earnings beat, ‘ramping volumes’

Shares of Mobileye Global Inc. were up 7% in premarket trading Thursday after the maker of autonomous-driving technology topped earnings and revenue...

www.marketwatch.com

I'm overall optimistic on the company, they are going through a rought patch but they have many advantages (some of them not exactly fair but yay for capitalism) that put them in very solid ground and aren't going out of business anytime soon

I actually do hope you are right. I was optimistic that Pat would be able to right the ship. But it looks like he is slowly slipping into the overreached, over promised, grandiose positions of his predecessors. The current climate is more competitive than at any point in transistor market history. Such an occurrence requires a very different kind of executive team than Intel has ever possessed. Pat and his crew just ain’t it. Maybe the next team if it isn’t too late.

 

[mechtech]

Hmmm am I reading this right??

7.6$ billion in profit for the year? So back to pre-covid profits??

 

[thesmokingman]

Hmmm am I reading this right??

7.6$ billion in profit for the year? So back to pre-covid profits??

Hmm, 2019 was $33.1B and 2020 was $35.4B so no, a big NO. They are bleeding so bad it needs a new definition.

Document

 

[Minus Infinity]

More significant cost cutting to come then. But on the bright side, Meteor Lake later this year (hopefully).

Laptop only. Let's see how it stacks up against Apple M3.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Hmmm am I reading this right??

7.6$ billion in profit for the year? So back to pre-covid profits??

More like 2010 in terms of profit that can be attributed to common shareholders (EBITDA).

But to understand their earnings, you have to understand this expense, Intel's R&D in billions. They are spending about 1/3 more on this now than they were 3 years ago. Intel could chop off that extra 1.5B/quarter and instantly increase their annual profit by 50%. That would be stupid ofc, but that's exactly what some of their CEOs from 7 or 8 years ago would have done.

Also understand, this is entirely separate from the cost of building Fabs.

 

[qcmadness]

Laptop only. Let's see how it stacks up against Apple M3.

They have to match and beat M1 / M2 before they could match M3.

 

[Assimilator]

Intel's 'historic collapse' erases $8 billion from market value

Intel Corp saw about $8 billion wiped off its market value on Friday after the U.S. chipmaker stumped Wall Street with dismal earnings projections, fanning fears around a slump in the personal-computer market.

www.reuters.com

Intel's 'historic collapse' erases $8 billion from market value

"No words can portray or explain the historic collapse of Intel," said Rosenblatt Securities' Hans Mosesmann, who was among the 21 analysts to cut their price targets on the stock.

"AMD's Genoa and Bergamo (data center) chips have a strong price-performance advantage compared to Intel's Sapphire Rapids processors, which should drive further AMD share gains," said Matt Wegner, analyst at YipitData.

"It is now clear why Intel needs to cut so much cost as the company's original plans prove to be fantasy," brokerage Bernstein said.

"The magnitude of the deterioration is stunning, and brings potential concern to the company's cash position over time."

It's going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better.

 

[trsttte]

Intel's 'historic collapse' erases $8 billion from market value

Intel Corp saw about $8 billion wiped off its market value on Friday after the U.S. chipmaker stumped Wall Street with dismal earnings projections, fanning fears around a slump in the personal-computer market.

www.reuters.com

It's going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better.

Yup

As long as they keep paying those sweet divideds the stock bleed will continue to be a bit limited at least

 

[rruff]

What the hell is Intel doing?

Digging themselves out of a hole! They got very complacent when AMD was floundering badly... they literally had no competition. They needed to stall for years just so AMD wouldn't go bankrupt; if that had happened the government would have stepped in to prevent a monopoly. When AMD suddenly hit a homerun with Ryzen, Intel was caught with their pants down.

I'm very impressed with Intel's 12th (and now 13) Gen processors though. They are beating AMD (TSMC) even with a much larger node. In laptops this year (particularly gaming) Intel is premium and AMD is 2nd tier... and that is a space where power efficiency really matters. I expect market share to begin to reverse for consumer products, but maybe not data center right away. If Intel gets the next node off on schedule they will be clear leaders, and should be able to grow market share again.

AMD will be in trouble soon IMO. They were starting to make some headway with laptop GPUs (in the mid-tier), but that seems to be reversing this year. I don't know what the issue is exactly, but they've always struggled with drivers. Nvidia toys with them as usual; they just make their GPUs good enough to beat AMD (I'm guessing they have good spies), but unlike Intel's recent past, they are always prepared to up the ante in a hurry if AMD makes a significant advance. The RTX 4000 GPUs are a good example. Nvidia could have given us a huge generational boost, but they are holding back and banking. The Vram, bandwidth and shaders are a big reduction vs 3000 for all but the very top card (which is mega $$$). They are heavily leveraging the smaller node, frequency boost, and DLSS3 to still deliver a nice fps/$ improvement anyway. Very calculated.

I do kinda hate Intel and Nvidia, but think they will do well vs the competition, and put AMD in a tough place soon.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Market has been flooded with to many lakes compared to amd releases
So buyers are laked out, two chips per year almost three is a crazy ass childs game against amd single release cycle.
Then you get a meager intel gpu.

 

[thesmokingman]

Intel's 'historic collapse' erases $8 billion from market value

Intel Corp saw about $8 billion wiped off its market value on Friday after the U.S. chipmaker stumped Wall Street with dismal earnings projections, fanning fears around a slump in the personal-computer market.

www.reuters.com

It's going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better.

Yea, a lot worse. And it feels ironic since they lured Gelsinger in to do what, make things worse? They need to start with this...

Goldman’s Solomon Joins CEOs Taking Pay Cuts After Laying Off Thousands

Executive compensation packages are in focus as top Silicon Valley and Wall Street CEOs slash jobs

www.bloomberg.com

 

[TechLurker]

AMD will be in trouble soon IMO. They were starting to make some headway with laptop GPUs (in the mid-tier), but that seems to be reversing this year. I don't know what the issue is exactly, but they've always struggled with drivers. Nvidia toys with them as usual; they just make their GPUs good enough to beat AMD (I'm guessing they have good spies), but unlike Intel's recent past, they are always prepared to up the ante in a hurry if AMD makes a significant advance. The RTX 4000 GPUs are a good example. Nvidia could have given us a huge generational boost, but they are holding back and banking. The Vram, bandwidth and shaders are a big reduction vs 3000 for all but the very top card (which is mega $$$). They are heavily leveraging the smaller node, frequency boost, and DLSS3 to still deliver a nice fps/$ improvement anyway. Very calculated.

I do kinda hate Intel and Nvidia, but think they will do well vs the competition, and put AMD in a tough place soon.

Part of AMD's strength is also their weakness; they're on record stating that in order to rapidly innovate in CPUs, they do run two teams focused on building upon previous generations and lightly competing against each other, and sometimes that includes throwing out some of the old code and basically redoing the code up to get those improvements. IIRC, it's the same for their GPU division. And it's also partly why every generation from AMD has teething issues for the first few months (except Zen+, which was just a straight refinement of Zen 1).

At the same time, AMD is still suffering from growth pains (needing to strategically spend their money where it's needed, vs just going all-out, and right now that market is the very lucrative enterprise/corporate sector) and long-held myths among the crowd that bias the average person away from AMD products, to say nothing of rivals manipulating deals and making it hard for AMD to be offered on the same brand platforms, often relegated to a secondary, slightly inferior one, esp. in laptops.

On the other hand, AMD's purchase of Xilinx could help them further rise with the right strategies, as Xilinx IP would let AMD quickly offer more counters in old entrenched spaces such as networking, aerospace, cellular/tel/comm, industrial, and automotive, given the pervasiveness of Xilinx IP within those sectors, while also helping to boost AMD's own products. I recall AMD teasing the possibility of FPGAs added to their GPUs and CPUs as a way to add more flexibility in things such as AI learning or a reprogrammable element set up for each client. In addition, replacing a bunch of 3rd party IP used in their products with Xilinx options could actually save them money, and allow them to field more custom solutions since more of it is in-house.

In the near term, AMD is likely to continue suffering in the consumer space while they focus on the enterprise and prosumer space, but their goal is taking over the much more lucrative markets that Intel has been trying to hold (and as of last year, was still losing ground to AMD in). With Intel now dropping yet another area that they mismanaged (networking switches), AMD could easily move into that market with leveraged Xilinx IP. They even mentioned sometime last year that they were looking into entering the networking sector via Xilinx, and we might one day see AMD NICs and switches in the near future.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

I sure hope that Intel don't cancel their Arc GPUs! IMHO, that would be a Google+-like fiasco, if Intel does!

 

[Assimilator]

And right on cue come the cuts: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/01/intel-executives-take-pay-cuts-after-disastrous-earnings.html

Ol' Patty's 25% cut is nothing more than virtue signalling because as the article notes, ol' Gelsinger's annual salary is less than 1% of his total compensation package, and the cut is les than 0.2% of that. In contrast, for the ordinary plebs:

Intel will cut 401(k) matching in half from 5% to 2.5%, potentially saving Intel hundreds of millions of dollars. ... Intel will also suspend merit raises and quarterly bonuses.

Yeah, that's the absolute best way to attract and retain talent at a time when your company is drowning due to lack of it.

 

[thesmokingman]

And there were some who argued it'd never happen, lol. And concur, Pat's compensation package is ridonkulous especially given the steep ladder he's taken them down.

 

[rruff]

And right on cue come the cuts: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/01/intel-executives-take-pay-cuts-after-disastrous-earnings.html

Ol' Patty's 25% cut is nothing more than virtue signalling because as the article notes, ol' Gelsinger's annual salary is less than 1% of his total compensation package, and the cut is les than 0.2% of that. In contrast, for the ordinary plebs:

Yeah, that's the absolute best way to attract and retain talent at a time when your company is drowning due to lack of it.

Gelsinger's pay is surely linked to stock performance, or some metrics that have to do with company performance, yes? That would be a greatly reduced number currently.

The same goes for "talent". Stock options are their real pay.

 

[claes]

And right on cue come the cuts: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/01/intel-executives-take-pay-cuts-after-disastrous-earnings.html

Ol' Patty's 25% cut is nothing more than virtue signalling because as the article notes, ol' Gelsinger's annual salary is less than 1% of his total compensation package, and the cut is les than 0.2% of that. In contrast, for the ordinary plebs:



Yeah, that's the absolute best way to attract and retain talent at a time when your company is drowning due to lack of it.

Gelsinger's pay is surely linked to stock performance, or some metrics that have to do with company performance, yes? That would be a greatly reduced number currently.

The same goes for "talent". Stock options are their real pay.

FWIW the stock holders voted against stock options the past two years, and Intel didn’t hit the $74 mark. Not saying yay Intel or anything, just saying

Intel cuts CEO stock payouts amid layoffs

The reforms could be mostly symbolic because Intel’s declining share price may have put many of the awards out of reach.

www.oregonlive.com

Intel makes it harder for Gelsinger to earn beaucoup bucks

Shares have already been moving in the wrong direction for Gelsinger's stock awards

www.theregister.com