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ASRock NUCS BOX-1360P/D4 Mini-PC

crazyeyesreaper

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ASRock's NUCS BOX-1360P/D4 brings Intel's latest and greatest, namely Raptor Lake, to the mini-pc world. The powerful and efficient Core i7-1360P processor, with its combined 12 cores, 16 threads, and Iris Xe Graphics. Just don't forget you need to supply the memory, SSD, and operating system.

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Did the manufacturer provide any data about USB PD support and available power?
 

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Did the manufacturer provide any data about USB PD support and available power?
No i have no data on tthe exact specs for the USB functionality. Other than the generation. USB 4.0 supports eGPUs but apparently its an optional part of the standard so I have no info on what it does or does not offer sadly. Hoping I can get more info on this but as it is current Chinese New Year it will likely be a bit before that info is available to me.
 
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crazyeyesreaper

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The comments on power are very timely, as intel has started locking down voltage on their chips so no more undervolting on tinkering on these types of systems.

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/10dcjd9
I didnt bother with undervolting but Throttlestop did work to increase the TDP limit. Resulting in some interesting performance gains on the CPU side, GPU side it was starved for more bandwidth. In a typical office you can expect the cooler to handle about 35-watts within reason with some headroom under heavy load (Cinebench R20). Beyond that is still possible at least with my unit.
 
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No i have no data on tthe exact specs for the USB functionality. Other than the generation. USB 4.0 supports eGPUs but apparently its an optional part of the standard so I have no info on what it does or does not offer sadly.
Thank you for this review. USB4 is actually the most interesting development on this line of Raptor Lake devices.
Anantech has published the specs of all mini-PCs in this line. Please see below.
They asked Asrock to clarify the spec for USB4 port on D5 BOX. It turns out that this might be the first ever commercial USB4 port that supports both DisplayPort 2.1 output from integrated graphics at 40 Gbps and USB 20 Gbps. This is because the motherboard features new Hayden Bridge retimer chip. It would be important to test and take picture of this chip on D5 motherboard.

Raptor Lake mobility CPUs do not natively support DP 2.1 from iGPU, so it would be interesting to see how Asrock is able to claim such support. Apart from JHL9040R retimer, there must be an additional chip on the motherboard that converts DP 1.4a signal HBR3 into DP 2.1 UHBR.

Would you, kindly, request from Asrock to send you a sample of NUC 1300/D5 BOX to test and review?

Here is a TPU diagram for RPL mobility H/P/U SKUs. If Asrock is to be believed, they are able to do some "magic" here and enhance Thunderbolt 4 with two new features. Can we check this, please?
INTEL MOBILE 13TH GEN H-P-U.png
 
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Anandtech also found out that this box can do in-band ECC on plain non-ECC RAM. The way it works is more weirder than I could have imagined, and it's not certain it's supported on this CPU, but it works.
 
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Nice little mini-me box overall, but $700 for a barebones machine is a tad high IMO, since there are many others out there with similar specs for less $$....

Make it ~$550, and I might consider it as a replacement for my aging i5 box :)
 
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If Asrock is to be believed, they are able to do some "magic" here and enhance Thunderbolt 4 with two new features. Can we check this, please?
The magic is not by Asrock, but by Intel themselves. They have already told the world that on the H, P and U series 13th gen chips will support DP2.1 on TB4 when paired with a Hayden Bridge Re-Timer. Asrock is just implementing Intels magic.
 

crazyeyesreaper

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Nice little mini-me box overall, but $700 for a barebones machine is a tad high IMO, since there are many others out there with similar specs for less $$....

Make it ~$550, and I might consider it as a replacement for my aging i5 box :)
Pretty much this, while the unit offers amazing performance for the power used / noise older units like ASRocks 4X4 4800U unit still deliver good performance and are quite old at this point. The Beelink unit with the 5600H is also a better unit and if given dual channel memory would likely outperform it. The problem with cost is the CPU itself Intel recommends a $480 price tag via CPU. So even if we consider the OEM pricing the fact remains its an expensive CPU. Also due to TDP constraints gains in the mobile space are more tepid meaning older chips still do quite well all things considered as the benchmark charts show.
 
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The magic is not by Asrock, but by Intel themselves. They have already told the world that on the H, P and U series 13th gen chips will support DP2.1 on TB4 when paired with a Hayden Bridge Re-Timer. Asrock is just implementing Intels magic.
Not so fast. Devil is always in details. Intel has never told us how this solution is meant to work. Intel only provided Hayden Bridge JHL9040R retimer component for DP 2.1. As you can see on the diagram you posted, CPU has native support for DP 1.4a HBR3 signals up to 32 Gbps. Intel's website also shows this for CPUs.

Moreover, Intel did not advertise at CES that DP 2.1 on 13th Gen CPUs are pending VESA's certification for DP 2.1, which suggests that CPU itself cannot be certified. For DP 2.1 to work from iGPU, we need either native support for UHBR signal, or a few other components outside of CPU, in addition to the retimer.

1. video signal from CPU - Raptor Lake doesn't have native DP 2.1, unlike Rembrandt, Raphael and Phoenix CPUs and APUs - so, DP 2.1 is not from CPU
2. PCON - this chip could convert HDMI 2.1 FRL into DP 2.1 to bring UHBR10 signal at 40 Gbps - RPL CPU does't have native FRL, so not a PCON
2. redriver - such as Texas Instruments SN65DP141 DisplayPort Linear Redriver for link training and amplification - 1300/D5 BOX might have this or similar chip
3. retimer - Intel provides Hayden Bridge chip to recover DP 2.1 signal and retransmit it towards USB4 port in systems with longer traces

VESA can certify either a single component as DP 2.1 compliant, such as Rembrandt APU that has 40 Gbps native output since last year, or a motherboard/system, such as the one inside NUC 1300/D5 BOX. Therefore, Intel does seem to do any "magic" here in terms of DP 2.1, but it provides one retimer chip as optional transitional solution that enhances Thunderbolt 4 until delayed Thunderbolt 5 is released, which could happen after Meteor Lake CPUs. Also, Thunderbolt 4 is certified for DP 1.4 signals and although it could provide DP 2.1 through its 40 Gbps port, TB4 can never be certified by VESA as DP 2.1 device.

So, this seems to be a hybrid solution for Intel for time-being. Intel was left behind after USB4 advancements to integrate DP 2.1. USB4 is more flexible here, as those ports can simply take native UHBR signal from AMD's CPUs and transmit at 40 Gbps.

@crazyeyesreaper
That's why I requested from the reviewer to ask Asrock to send a sample of NUC 1300/D5 BOX to test and review. When motherboard is exposed and photographed, we will be able to see all chips on it and solve this DP 2.1 mistery.
 
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Seems good for space saving, but a NUC needing 90w and fan cooling doesnt feel right.

My qotom I brought about 4 years ago was £120, passively cooled and consumes 10-30w.

Still 25w browsing the web is much better than a typical PC i guess if turbo clocks are disabled the peak consumption would be below 50w?

If this was under $500/£400 might be worth using for non gaming tasks as with UK electric costs it would save me about £20 month. So two years pays for itself.
 
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SomeRando

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The comments on power are very timely, as intel has started locking down voltage on their chips so no more undervolting on tinkering on these types of systems.

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/10dcjd9
I was going to buy this but this might be a huge deal breaker for me. So I have a few questions.

So does that mean you can not do any undervolting at all in XTU and ThrottleStrop?

Can you still adjust clocks "underclock" (set lower clocks) and increase TDP in XTU/TS? Or is this also blocked?

Is it possible to load an older microcode to get this functionality back? Does the 1360P gave that option? If not does the older 1260P model have that option?

I have always played with these settings on my 2-1 8550U laptop and gotten big performance gains like setting -.1v and putting TDP to 45W, which was huge. Or setting lower boost clocks with the undervolt to get better battery life.

I was planning on doing that undervolt and increasing the TDP on this thing to get great performance from it but if not an option at all. I'll have to rethink this. I also was planning on taking the opportunity to continue some of my testing/research into demonstrating these specific CPUs efficiency at lower clocks and showing how it scales like I have done with other generations.
 

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I was going to buy this but this might be a huge deal breaker for me. So I have a few questions.

So does that mean you can not do any undervolting at all in XTU and ThrottleStrop?

Can you still adjust clocks "underclock" (set lower clocks) and increase TDP in XTU/TS? Or is this also blocked?

Is it possible to load an older microcode to get this functionality back? Does the 1360P gave that option? If not does the older 1260P model have that option?

I have always played with these settings on my 2-1 8550U laptop and gotten big performance gains like setting -.1v and putting TDP to 45W, which was huge. Or setting lower boost clocks with the undervolt to get better battery life.

I was planning on doing that undervolt and increasing the TDP on this thing to get great performance from it but if not an option at all. I'll have to rethink this. I also was planning on taking the opportunity to continue some of my testing/research into demonstrating these specific CPUs efficiency at lower clocks and showing how it scales like I have done with other generations.
If you read the review in the conclusion i noted at least on my retail sample that I was able to use throttlestop to boost the TDP limit higher allowing for more performance. As far as underclocking / undervolting I didnt have much success in that if it was working the gains were minimal. The cooling solution is capable of giving even better performance tho but that is the only aspect I had any success. 35-watt TDP seemed to be the sweet spot for boosted performance during longer work loads. For example depending on the setting / ambient temps i saw gains of 20-40% in multi threaded tests via Cinebench etc. So as far as I am aware having reviewed the product there was more performance on the table still but with Intel's stance its possible even that has been locked down.Z

That said on mini-pcs themselves i have never had XTU work in any capacity. Only ThrottleStop.
 

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If you read the review in the conclusion i noted at least on my retail sample that I was able to use throttlestop to boost the TDP limit higher allowing for more performance. As far as underclocking / undervolting I didnt have much success in that if it was working the gains were minimal. The cooling solution is capable of giving even better performance tho but that is the only aspect I had any success. 35-watt TDP seemed to be the sweet spot for boosted performance during longer work loads. For example depending on the setting / ambient temps i saw gains of 20-40% in multi threaded tests via Cinebench etc. So as far as I am aware having reviewed the product there was more performance on the table still but with Intel's stance its possible even that has been locked down.Z

That said on mini-pcs themselves i have never had XTU work in any capacity. Only ThrottleStop.
what was the max TDP cooling system could do continuously before temp throttling? It looked like the heatsink/fan could easily handle 60W+

EDIT: I read your review but I didn't see you increased the TDP. It sounded like you just increased the boost times not actual TDP limit. It would be good and nice if you did a graph showing temps and TDP on a continuous benchmark especially showing the max TSP the cooling system can handle. Its an easy 15 minute test that tells a lot about the cooling system and peak performance. Its nice to know what's the maximum the cooling system can handle compared to other miniPCs.

Also, what about that microcode? can you downgrade it so you don't have this issue?
 
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