Which system should i keep for gaming? (older i9 or newer xeon)

[Dr. Dro]

Hi,
lol yeah same born on date hehe maybe 7980xe hasn't been used and abused yet seen some on ebay for a couple hundred

Must of really screwed his 7940x to think up this 7980xe purchase choice :/

7980XE isn't exactly a new CPU anymore. That they go for a few hundred on eBay should be no surprise, they're practically obsolete when compared to something like a i7-12700K you could buy for $300 *new* if you happened to be in the US and with access to a micro center.

 

[ThrashZone]

7980XE isn't exactly a new CPU anymore. That they go for a few hundred on eBay should be no surprise, they're practically obsolete when compared to something like a i7-12700K you could buy for $300 *new* if you happened to be in the US and with access to a micro center.

Hi,
Yep thing is op changed
Before it was just which to keep Xeon or x299 which is okay
It's another thing throwing more money down a dry hole with a 7980xe for this

Might as well make the argument for 10980xe lol

Or the best alternative again is to sell all and save up for a real gaming rig.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Cache/memory hierarchy on Cascade Lake is the same as on Skylake, too. They are the same architecture.

Cascade Lake - Microarchitectures - Intel - WikiChip

Cascade Lake (CSL/CLX) is Intel's successor to Skylake, a 14 nm microarchitecture for enthusiasts and servers. Cascade Lake is the 'Optimization' phase as part of Intel's PAO model.

en.wikichip.org

Pardon me, I was typing in a hurry. Cache quantity is what I was referring to.

5800X and 5800X3D are the same besides cache and clocks - gaming "IPC" is better on the X3D. Aka singe core performance divided by clock speed, as that is how most people define IPC.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Hi,
Yep thing is op changed
Before it was just which to keep Xeon or x299 which is okay
It's another thing throwing more money down a dry hole with a 7980xe for this

View attachment 282810

Might as well make the argument for 10980xe lol

View attachment 282811

Or the best alternative again is to sell all and save up for a real gaming rig.

OP didn't own the 7940X to begin with. They were using some cheap placeholder engineering sample CPU, skipped the 7940X idea and just bought the 7980XE instead. It's not the world's highest performer, but it's not a bad processor either. The 9980XE is just a re-release of that CPU with some bug fixes and better clocks, and can even grab a 10980XE once they devalue enough. It's not a bad deal IMO, the problem with getting a X299 system up and running is the cost of a motherboard and they already owned one.

 

[masterdeejay]

OP didn't own the 7940X to begin with. They were using some cheap placeholder engineering sample CPU, skipped the 7940X idea and just bought the 7980XE instead. It's not the world's highest performer, but it's not a bad processor either. The 9980XE is just a re-release of that CPU with some bug fixes and better clocks, and can even grab a 10980XE once they devalue enough. It's not a bad deal IMO, the problem with getting a X299 system up and running is the cost of a motherboard and they already owned one.

Only the 7xxx supports ECC REG memory so the 9xxx or the 10xxx cpus is not an option. I dont want to buy ram (i have a lots of ecc reg memory from older servers and from my older systems so it is almost free)
Intel has removed ecc reg support from the newer microcodes. (dont know why?)
Asrock officialy supports ecc reg with 7xxx series up to 2Tb ram, but later it was removed in the newest bios so that is why i use modded bios.
https://wccftech.com/asrock-x299-motherboard-rdimm-memory-bios-support-2-tb-capacity/


https://www.cpu-world.com/Compare_C...,Intel_CD8067304126600,Intel_CD8069504381800/
Not much difference (7980xe is delided). I think i can overclock to the 9-10 gen clocks. Bugfixes also not a big issue for me, I always remove microcode patches in windows (and in bios i revert back to older faster one) so there is no performance penalty due to spectre, meltdown etc patches. I dont do banking or any secret things on this machine.

 

[Deleted member 185158]

Hi,

Or the best alternative again is to sell all and save up for a real gaming rig.

+1
A cheapy stock 12400 cpu on ddr4 cheap motherboard would put a 7980XE to shame. Or even have it's rear handed to it by a 12100..... Or sadly enough and even cheaper yet, a little G7400 pentium gold.... Doesn't like a lot of threads? A G6900 would suffice, still killing single core performance of a 7980XE.

 

[masterdeejay]

+1
A cheapy stock 12400 cpu on ddr4 cheap motherboard would put a 7980XE to shame. Or even have it's rear handed to it by a 12100..... Or sadly enough and even cheaper yet, a little G7400 pentium gold.... Doesn't like a lot of threads? A G6900 would suffice, still killing single core performance of a 7980XE.

All of my games runs fine on Xeon 4125R and that is almost the same as the skylake-x i9 but with lower single core clocks. (4ghz few core turbo, 3,6ghz all core turbo)

I don't care about the synthetic benchmarks. And i only have an Intel A770 LE 16Gb GPU that is a lower-mid tier today and I only gaming at FullHD at 60hz (Old Dell 23" IPS). So i dont need 4k and 144hz etc.

And I tested a few games on my Xeon. If I can play with RT and an average 60fps that is fine to me. I think it will be a bit faster on the 7980xe. (if i oc to 4-8 cores to 4,5ghz)
I am also playing modded skyrim with over 100gb of 4k-8k texture mods and it is also 60fps limited.

 

[claylomax]

Don't forget about the Mesh clock; at default it's at 2400mhz, it can do around 3200mhz.

 

[masterdeejay]

Cpu arrived, testing soon.
Delided and applied liquid metal under IHS, I have also MX4 and MX5 for the heatsink.



IHS is not the best one, but fine for light oc i think.
Ecc reg works.

Little mess.

 

[bug]

I now realize will all "know" server CPUs don't do well in gaming, but we've never seen a review looking at the actual difference. I mean, sure, server CPUs are clocked lower, usually paired with slower ECC RAM and have their caches tuned differently. But it's not like they're crippled when it comes to games.
@W1zzard Do you think it's feasible to run such a comparison? Ideally Core vs Xeon and Ryzen vs Epyc, but I will settle for whatever you are willing (and able) to put together. And you can probably ignore 4k, we all know CPU is rarely a bottleneck at the resolution.

 

[P4-630]

I don't think W1zzard ever will test any xeon or epic CPU though.....

 

[Deleted member 185158]

All of my games runs fine on Xeon 4125R and that is almost the same as the skylake-x i9 but with lower single core clocks. (4ghz few core turbo, 3,6ghz all core turbo)

I don't care about the synthetic benchmarks. And i only have an Intel A770 LE 16Gb GPU that is a lower-mid tier today and I only gaming at FullHD at 60hz (Old Dell 23" IPS). So i dont need 4k and 144hz etc.

And I tested a few games on my Xeon. If I can play with RT and an average 60fps that is fine to me. I think it will be a bit faster on the 7980xe. (if i oc to 4-8 cores to 4,5ghz)
I am also playing modded skyrim with over 100gb of 4k-8k texture mods and it is also 60fps limited.

View attachment 283143
View attachment 283144

I hate to ask what you paid for that chip. On average looks like 250 to 300$+ still for that cpu.

My point still is that you could spend that much on a newer platform and completely clobber the performance of that 7980XE.

We can guesstimate that a 12400 cpu is somewhere around 50% faster per core IPC. That means you can't OC anywhere near that performance.

Yes synthetic benchmarks are great for performance measurements. That's why 3DMark is called "The gamers benchmark".

Some games (benchmarks too) are more CPU dependant, some more gpu dependant. At 1080P, most games want the CPU performance.

Either way, you'll probably have an uplift in frame rates with the new to you 7980XE, but I'm thinking single digit fps gains over what you already have.

 

[masterdeejay]

It was aprox 260 usd (300 eur but i reduced - 21% tax)

And i was wrong about the ecc memory, the ecc reg works but without ECC features.

(yes, i know i put the video card in the wrong slot again)

 

[masterdeejay]

3d mark is much lower, I got half fps on this i9 but better cpu scores. But finaly it is not crashing like my other ES cpu systems (Xeon gold 6138). I dont know what cause this.
I set all core multi to 45x and mesh 3ghz and voltage to 1.2v for the vcore and the mesh (i dont know what is the default just searched an average oc setting on the net) it was a bad idea because it is overheating on syntetic tests.

i9 7980XE half fps and lagging (hwinfo the hottest core is 83, but the average is much lower, it only uses few cores,but no throtling, gpu usage is low)

Xeon 4215R runs fine, but with enabled systeminfo it crashes. (it never runs with my 20 core or dual cpu rigs)

(gpu in 16x slot, rebar enabled, same driver same OS)

Superposition works fine and got +400 points.



In metro exodus enhanced edition i got almost the same fps just little better min fps (all ultra+ RT) so i think it is GPU limited.
Skyrim (with over 100gb mods) runs the same but that is 60 fps limited so not matter . Cyberpunk modded RT ultra still same fps so that is also GPU limited.
Kingdom Come Deliverance (modded, reshade, enb...all on ultra) runs better so it was cpu limited but still 60+ average on fights, outside combat 90-100fps.
Star Citizen runs like shit (30-40fps), but it needs to disable some cores because it is scaling negative above 10 cores. (With 20 cores Xeon 5218R and Xeon 6138 was a total lagfest until i disabled half of the cores, it runs fine on Xeon 4215R)
So games only use 4-8 cores and not throtling.

CPU-Z benchmark is throtling so lower scores than stock. My old air cooler is for first gen i7 not for this monster. (Too much vcore)

Still testing.

 

[masterdeejay]

So i ended up:

4.2Ghz all core at 1.1v that is usable for the air cooler (with two Arctic P12 on the thermalright extreme cooler and a case cooler to suck out the heat) and not throttling in games. Still some throttling at heavy all core benchmarks.
3.2Ghz mesh at 1.15v gives me much more extra fps than the core overclock. (so for gaming the cache speed is much more important then clock speed)
There is a benchmark for the mesh and some timing and subtiming (tRFC) scaling:
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/skylake-x-memory-benchmarks.18793466/


On average it is not bottlenecking my Intel A770.
For the memory i still need to fine the best overclock, it is only at 2933@1.2v CAS19-19-19-43-CR1 but with very acceptable temps (modules are 40-45C at full load). I think with 1.3-1,4v it can go at least 3200 or 3600 i hope.
I have these very cheap (almost free) modules:


Micron D9TZV the same chips on a Ballistix Tactical Tracer 3000. Its on the ecc reg modules from 2133 to 3200 so it is very possible to work over 3000mhz

 

[Vario]

3d mark is much lower, I got half fps on this i9 but better cpu scores. But finaly it is not crashing like my other ES cpu systems (Xeon gold 6138). I dont know what cause this.
I set all core multi to 45x and mesh 3ghz and voltage to 1.2v for the vcore and the mesh (i dont know what is the default just searched an average oc setting on the net) it was a bad idea because it is overheating on syntetic tests.

i9 7980XE half fps and lagging (hwinfo the hottest core is 83, but the average is much lower, it only uses few cores,but no throtling, gpu usage is low)
View attachment 283472
Xeon 4215R runs fine, but with enabled systeminfo it crashes. (it never runs with my 20 core or dual cpu rigs)
View attachment 283476
(gpu in 16x slot, rebar enabled, same driver same OS)

Superposition works fine and got +400 points.
View attachment 283475
View attachment 283514

In metro exodus enhanced edition i got almost the same fps just little better min fps (all ultra+ RT) so i think it is GPU limited.
Skyrim (with over 100gb mods) runs the same but that is 60 fps limited so not matter . Cyberpunk modded RT ultra still same fps so that is also GPU limited.
Kingdom Come Deliverance (modded, reshade, enb...all on ultra) runs better so it was cpu limited but still 60+ average on fights, outside combat 90-100fps.
Star Citizen runs like shit (30-40fps), but it needs to disable some cores because it is scaling negative above 10 cores. (With 20 cores Xeon 5218R and Xeon 6138 was a total lagfest until i disabled half of the cores, it runs fine on Xeon 4215R)
So games only use 4-8 cores and not throtling.

CPU-Z benchmark is throtling so lower scores than stock. My old air cooler is for first gen i7 not for this monster. (Too much vcore)
View attachment 283480View attachment 283481
Still testing.

838 is a really nice single thread speed. Close to 12th gen. https://valid.x86.fr/bench/2ryieb/1

 

[Selaya]

you're looking at the wrong numbers, those are of the avx512 bench which is something else entirely from the classic one (SSE4 or something ig)?
that only scored 500ish, as you'd expect from an SKL part so yeah

 

[masterdeejay]

838 is a really nice single thread speed. Close to 12th gen. https://valid.x86.fr/bench/2ryieb/1

With AVX512 and 400-500W TDP.
So it can only work for a few seconds before throttling.

 

[Vario]

With AVX512 and 400-500W TDP.
So it can only work for a few seconds before throttling.

you're looking at the wrong numbers, those are of the avx512 bench which is something else entirely from the classic one (SSE4 or something ig)?
that only scored 500ish, as you'd expect from an SKL part so yeah

Makes sense. Either way, still around Coffee Lake single thread with a ton of multithread, should be a good processor for a few years for GPU bound scenarios (such as high resolution).

 

[Selaya]

i mean, coffeelake is just SKL repost-refresh so yeah (same uarch)

 

[masterdeejay]

i mean, coffeelake is just SKL repost-refresh so yeah (same uarch)

sky-kaby-coffe-comet-whiskey lake is all skylake related

Skylake-x/w/sp is a little diffrent: (7980xe is skylake-x)
Bigger L2 cache but smaler non-inclusive shared L3 cache (per core)
4 to 6 channnel memory
more features, some cpu-s have two AVX512 FMA-s per core

Cascade lake-x/w/sp is few % slower c2c than skylake because of the security patches* but better power management (and soldered), plus more features than skylake-x/w/sp

*spectre, meltdown patches also slowed down all skylake related cpu-s and some older cpu-s HT perfromance but it can be disabled with older microcodes and deleting patches in windows 10/11

 

[Selaya]

im aware that these are not SKL-reposts but SKL-derivatives - doesn't change their ipc tho, which is usually what's determining a cpu's performance as long as you can (over-)clock it sufficiently

 

[Chrispy_]

The i9, mainly because both are Skylake-era architectures of roughly comparable IPC but the i9 clocks higher and is on a more tunable platform. It's all about the clocks for gaming.

Additionally, regardless of the highter memory bandwidth in the Xeon system, both systems have plenty of bandwidth - what you really need is faster DDR4 clocks and tighter timings, something the Supermicro board won't let you do but the X299 is tailor-made to do.

 

[masterdeejay]

The i9, mainly because both are Skylake-era architectures of roughly comparable IPC but the i9 clocks higher and is on a more tunable platform. It's all about the clocks for gaming.

Additionally, regardless of the highter memory bandwidth in the Xeon system, both systems have plenty of bandwidth - what you really need is faster DDR4 clocks and tighter timings, something the Supermicro board won't let you do but the X299 is tailor-made to do.

Im running the dimms at 3200mhz 19-19-19-43-CR1 1.4v and the ram temps are fine 45-55C on memtest. It is passed for half hour.
I hope i can oc to 3600.

3dmark timespy (cpu clocks at default non oc, but mesh and ram is oc-d to 3200)
Video card Intel A770 LE 16Gb at stock.

 

[Chrispy_]

Video card Intel A770 LE

Thanks for your service.
I don't care to deal with Intel's first-gen hardware or its early drivers but I'm pleased people are buying them, that's what will bring competition back to the stagnant value proposition of the AMD+Nvidia duopoly.