M-Disc DVD questions

[gamer87fla]

I have an M-Disc DVD is this disc just marketing or is it built differently from regular DVDs

Is its plastic and glue the same as other DVDs?

 

[Steve-007UK]

M Disc

www.mdisc.com

 

[AnotherReader]

It's readable by most DVD players, but it's meant for long term archival and is made of different materials. If you have more questions, the wikipedia article on M-DISC should answer them.

 

[gamer87fla]

I didn't find any information about what kind of plastic and glue is used on the M-Disc DVD to compare with regular DVDs

What is the life expectancy of the files on the DVD MDisc at 35C and 61-73% humidity? in my house these are the conditions

???

 

[Ruru]

M-DISC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

M-Disc claims that properly stored M-DISC DVD recordings will last up to 1000 years.

Accelerated thermal tests are only representative from a materials science perspective, this data is mostly used for manufacturing development, in the real world these discs would never pass 50 °C in real world situations as even basic burial archival depth of 1–2 meters would keep them in the >20 °C range.

Ideal storage condition, e.g., 15 °C and 10% RH

Controlled storage condition, e.g., 25 °C and 50% RH, using the Eyring model

Uncontrolled storage condition, e.g., 30 °C and 80% RH, using the Arrhenius model

 

[AnotherReader]

Why is it so hot in your house? If you read the links that myself and others have provided, you can see that the disks were either tested in extreme conditions (up to 90C and 85% relative humidity). Moreover, NIST considers these disks to be suitable for archival use. Have you encountered issues with regular DVD-R media? Those are also suitable for archival.

 

[R-T-B]

View attachment 288117

TIL SSDs are magnetic

 

[gamer87fla]

currently i have not encountered problems with my burnt M-Disc DVD stored in the room but the temperature in my city varies 33-35C the humidity in my house can go to 73% but i use air dehumidifier and most of the day the humidity it's 61% temp 35C

Will the useful life of these M-Disc DVDs be short?

 

[R-T-B]

Will the useful life of these M-Disc DVDs be short?

It will be shorter most likely, but still longer than anything else you can buy honestly.

 

[natr0n]

Many of us are wondering what region are you in.

Im guessing you never had vcr/vhs and used video cd due to high humidity.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I didn't find any information about what kind of plastic and glue is used on the M-Disc DVD to compare with regular DVDs

What is the life expectancy of the files on the DVD MDisc at 35C and 61-73% humidity? in my house these are the conditions

???

What they are made of is not important. They are estimated to last 1000 years. So even if they only last half of that, they will still last longer than everyone alive today. Enjoy!

 

[R-T-B]

What they are made of is not important. They are estimated to last 1000 years. So even if they only last half of that, they will still last longer than everyone alive today. Enjoy!

There was an accelerated wear test for heat done at 90C. They still were readable for 250 hours. Near the boiling point of water.

 

[Mussels]

I didn't find any information about what kind of plastic and glue is used on the M-Disc DVD to compare with regular DVDs

What is the life expectancy of the files on the DVD MDisc at 35C and 61-73% humidity? in my house these are the conditions

???

Why would they tell you the secret ingredients to their product?

It's unlikely to be related to the materials you're thinking of at all, printed DVD's have a long lifespan - home burned ones do not since the dye decays over time. This would just react differently to the burning process to avoid that decay.


Longevity of Recordable CDs, DVDs and Blu-rays — Canadian Conservation Institute (CCI) Notes 19/1 - Canada.ca

 

[Norton]

Address your comments to the OPs question, thread reported for cleanup and points awarded.

All are reminded to follow the forum guidelines

 

[Mussels]

What they are made of is not important. They are estimated to last 1000 years. So even if they only last half of that, they will still last longer than everyone alive today. Enjoy!

The article i linked to is fascinating since you can visually indentify the dyes used in various CD-R types

I recall preferring some that had a black dye (Perhaps it was just a really dark blue), all the generic silver ones i used for storage back then decayed in 10-15 years or so



Since a lot of posts got removed for people being people, heres a screencap from that link that explains a lot of the confusion on this topic - the dye used can give you garbage that rots away in days in sunlight, or that lasts centuries
Printed discs should in theory last forever if they arent damaged physically, although they can and do get brittle over time so the high RPM's might shatter them when they get used by future archeologists

 

[lexluthermiester]

The article i linked to is fascinating since you can visually indentify the dyes used in various CD-R types
View attachment 288411
I recall preferring some that had a black dye (Perhaps it was just a really dark blue), all the generic silver ones i used for storage back then decayed in 10-15 years or so



Since a lot of posts got removed for people being people, heres a screencap from that link that explains a lot of the confusion on this topic - the dye used can give you garbage that rots away in days in sunlight, or that lasts centuries
Printed discs should in theory last forever if they arent damaged physically, although they can and do get brittle over time so the high RPM's might shatter them when they get used by future archeologists

View attachment 288412

It's actually far more complicated. However a general rule of thumb is as follows: The slow the burn speed, the more stable the recording. Additionally, keeping discs out of direct or indirect sunlight will ensure a long shelf-life, well beyond the above estimates.

 

[Mussels]

It's actually far more complicated. However a general rule of thumb is as follows: The slow the burn speed, the more stable the recording. Additionally, keeping discs out of direct or indirect sunlight will ensure a long shelf-life, well beyond the above estimates.

That's directly tied into the dyes, the faster speeds use more heat and they decay quicker - hence '5-10 years' (slower write speed, better storage conditions, longer life)

 

[lexluthermiester]

That's directly tied into the dyes, the faster speeds use more heat and they decay quicker - hence '5-10 years' (slower write speed, better storage conditions, longer life)

Exactly, but there is also the quality of the chemistry. The better formulations had better reaction characteristics and were less prone to damage by sunlight or heat exposure. Lesser quality formulations did the job but you had to be very careful with them.

On the other hand I believe its a myth that slower burn produce a better image.

It's not a myth. This has been objectively tested. Faster speeds did yield less reliable results. It has to do with the exposure time of the laser to the dye. The longer the exposure time, the better the reaction with the dye. Simple physics. Very similar to photography. Longer exposure means more light reaction to the film and a better image in low-light situations. While the application is different, the effect and chemical reactions are very similar. Slower burning speed directly equals a more stable and long lasting recording.

No offense to you intended Jester, just wanted to clarify the information so you and others can understand it's a real thing.

 

[Mussels]

It's not a myth. This has been objectively tested.

Can also confirm this is no myth

If you thought it was, then you simply had discs with the better dyes, with a quality burner. Using the cheaper discs (especially old stock) for CD at 52x was asking for a failure, even when BURN wasn't an issue (Ah NERO, how i don't miss thee)

And yeah it was burning a chemical dye to change it's colour so you had a before/after for a binary 0 and 1, too short an exposure could result in a partial change or not enough change to register - and these devices didnt have ECC, they assumed perfection.

CD-RW tech still impresses me that they found a way to flip them between two states repeatedly, even if they couldnt do it too many times

 

[gamer87fla]

What expectancy logevity years M-Disc DVD data in my conditions 35C 60-73% RH?

 

[lexluthermiester]

What expectancy logevity years M-Disc DVD data in my conditions 35C 60-73% RH?

500 to 1000 years. Put another way, if you carefully create and store the discs, even under the conditions you stated, they will out live you, your children and your descendants for minimum of 6 generations.

 

[gamer87fla]

500 to 1000 years.

I thought for 1000 years it was 25C 50% RH because it's hard to keep in those conditions 24 hours a day

 

[lexluthermiester]

I thought for 1000 years it was 25C 50% RH because it's hard to keep in those conditions 24 hours a day

See edit. This is why I said " 500 to 1000 years ". The time frame is an estimate based on known chemical decay factors.

 

[gamer87fla]

35C is 10 degrees more than 25C
10 degrees more temperature reduces how many years?

73% is 23% more moisture compared to 50%

now I found this PDF of millenniata old site herself my case is 117 years?

 

[lexluthermiester]

35C is 10 degrees more than 25C
10 degrees more temperature reduces how many years?

You're assuming there is a significant effect that +10C would have. There is no conclusive evidence of this.

73% is 23% more moisture compared to 50%

Humidity is not a significant factor for the materials involved in the manufacturer of MDisc media in the finished product.

As I stated above, if you carefully create(don't burn at a speed that is very fast and make sure the drive is not subjected to external vibrations during recording) and carefully use/store(keep out of direct sunlight and excessive heat[45C+]), the media WILL out live you and your descendants for several generations. This is clearly shown in the graph you posted above, though that graph indicates estimates.