Electric buzzing/humming coming from the motherboard area - Help needed

[d1nky]

At any rate, we know it is not the old PSU. Best guess now is coil whine from the motherboard.

I've heard many different coil whines and I don't think it's whine. And doesn't whine change frequency/noise with intensity?

I still think it's interference from house electrics.

Talking of whine, you should hear my GPU and mobo. Both have choke whine and sounds like squealing piggies at full load haha

 

[Bill_Bright]

Coil whine from the PSU is possible, but it is unlikely the sound from two different PSUs (the RMx850 and HX1000i), even if both from Corsair, would sound the same.

And doesn't whine change frequency/noise with intensity?

I don't see how or why it would change frequency but SPL (sound pressure level) or loudness, yes, depending on the load.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

It may be bad PSU caps. But, that's more likely if in standby when that noise is occurring. I had a lower-pitched sound heard when very quiet in the house one day in the early-2010s and shortly after, I found a bulging cap! It was most likely the +5V standby cap bulging! It was my 2005 Antec SmartPower 2.0 500W.

 

[LabRat 891]

Regardless of the accuracy of my memory for numbers (or their associations with aural pain*); I provided quantitative data (and provided means to reproduce my results).
*I think this is related to what I experience: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3355043/

To get ever further off topic, storytime:
As a kid, my parents basically thought I was nuts because I could hear the most irritating high-pitched screech from our security camera system's CRT.

As most people age they lose hearing range (anyone remember those 'teenager buzzer' things?) Not meaning to call darkwing old, but they might not be able to hear the tone due to age, injury, or something benignly congenital. (I think there was mention of some audio hardware just not well-capable of those frequencies, as well)
But for fun, I'll sweep 14-17khz and see if I can even perceive it.

Edit: I'm back.
:vomit:
14khz range, HURTS. (7khz-range did too; I was somewhat expecting it to hurt)
So, 'for science' and thanks... I guess....

As far as cutoff for my hearing:
Stipulating that on my Asus Xonar STX, with kitbashed Creative 2.1 speakers from the late-2000s-early-2010s, and using the site I linked....
sound just turns into an unpleasant sensation at about 16,300-16,400hz. Sensation fades behind (ambient-whaterver-you-want to call it) after just below-17khz.

[sings]Hello tinnitus, my old friend...[/sings]

 

[Bill_Bright]

14khz range, HURTS. (7khz-range did too; I was somewhat expecting it to hurt)

LOL Sorry, but no.

It doesn't work that way so not sure what you are getting at here, or trying to pull over our eyes (or ears).

There are infrasound frequencies (below 20Hz) and ultrasound frequencies (above 20KHz) sounds around us all the time - and all sorts of sounds in between. Whether we can hear them or not does not mean they will cause damage, or more importantly to the topic of this thread, "hurt".

Even the female voice can produce harmonics or "overtones" over 16KHz, as can a violin and a few other instruments - sounds we can perceive. It is the sound of those harmonics that make music so enjoyable - even at loud volume levels, WITHOUT causing any pain.

Even if we can not hear a 17KHz tone, those soundwaves are still hitting our eardrums, causing them to vibrate.

So there is no reason any sound between 20Hz and 20,000Hz would "hurt" (as in cause pain) unless you were listening to it at 120 -140 dB sound pressure levels at your ear - which is like being next to the flightline in close physical proximity to a jet engine on take-off.

So please. Be real here, LabRat. Okay?

If you truly are experiencing pain, then you seriously need to see a medical professional. Note your own article says "unusual case" for which there is "no explanation". So clearly, if truly experiencing pain, that is something out of the norm, an exception. And exceptions don't make the rule.

 

[LabRat 891]

I'm so glad darkwing is directly in my head and body and can better-perceive my first person experiences than I can communicate them. Fantastic job!
/s

You're taking everything I say out of stated context and often my openly-stated PERSONAL CONTEXT. Not to mention outright ignoring anything quantified/quantifiable I say.

So, keep on trying to educate. I clearly will always be out-pedant'd with you
(Which, is good. I still haven't figured out how to delete my pedanticism from my own personality. Watching my own personal flaws be aimed back squarely at myself, is bordering on a spiritual experience)

 

[Bill_Bright]

Degrading the thread with personal insults does nothing but degrade the thread.

I am not in your head, or pretending to know what is in your head at all. Nor am I taking anything out of context. YOU specifically said those frequencies cause you "pain" (post #43) and they "HURT" (post #54). Your words and your uppercase emphasis, not mine.

FTR, I have suffered from tinnitus for many years. I saw a specialist for it, who ordered a CT Scan of my head to see if was caused by a tumor (it's not). Sometimes it is extremely annoying and distracting. But does it cause "pain"? Nope. Nor does it "HURT".

If, when you hear sounds at those frequencies, it "HURTS" and causes you "pain" as you claim, that is not normal. That is NOT a criticism or meant to be insulting. It is just a fact. There could be something seriously wrong and so again, I would urge you to see a medical professional just to rule any serious medical conditions out. And that is just friendly, concerned, advice. You can take it, or leave it.

Time to move on. Have a good day.

 

[necessary_chemical]

It may be bad PSU caps. But, that's more likely if in standby when that noise is occurring. I had a lower-pitched sound heard when very quiet in the house one day in the early-2010s and shortly after, I found a bulging cap! It was most likely the +5V standby cap bulging! It was my 2005 Antec SmartPower 2.0 500W.

Could be, but the chance of it being in 2 separate models of PSUs one after the other and pretty much straight outta the box is slim to say the least. My best guess so far is that it's interference and given that I'm not able to move my PC to another location to test it out (so can't rule it out unfortunately), I'll live with it. In terms of performance or anything detrimental -- not seeing anything so far thus I'll probably learn to live with it (unless someone has a better idea that is something I could try out but at this point I've tried out so many things that I'm pretty jaded with respect to this).

In any case, I'll try out Bill's suggestion with the outlet checker once it arrives tomorrow just to rule that one out as well. It'd be surprising to see anything wrong showing up on the checker but you never know I guess

 

[Berfs1]

Okay, let's narrow this down. Is this happening with any other computers in the house? If not, and it's happening with multiple PSUs connected to the same motherboard, I am suspecting it is the motherboard causing the PSUs to have this high pitched sound. Could you please upload a picture of the inside of your system? It's also possible one of your fans might be causing this noise, maybe try running with no fans connected, and check if you hear the noise?

Edit: Just to add about the motherboard potentially causing the noise, it wouldn't be a surprise to me as my Maximus XIII Hero (yes a Z590, but still a relatively new board) also has this issue but only when the CPU is drawing low amounts of power, it's actually a VRM problem in my case, there isn't really anything that can be done about it other than disabling C states (sort of) or making the CPU never go idle, which is obviously not ideal haha

 

[necessary_chemical]

I don't have any other PCs (only laptops - which show no issues). I tried running with no fans connected, the sound was still there. At this point it's either what you say which is the mobo (but weird as it is not the source of the sound but rather the PSU) or there is interference from 3rd party sources. As I mentioned, there is no rhyme and reason to it, I couldn't pinpoint any scenario to trigger it at all. It is random, as far as I am concerned (it can happen 5 times in 2 minutes and then not happen for 3 hours for example). Regarding what you wrote in the "edit", I tried disabling C-states (to no avail, sound still there) and also to set the minimum power of the CPU to 100% - again, same result, there is no change. As @LabRat 891 mentioned on the prev page, all of the "buzz" has the same frequency regardless of the PSU used and also regardless of the system being in or out of the case.

That being said, my LAST resort is to just try with a new mobo (which I might be able to do given I've bought all of my stuff on Amazon and they could send a replacement mobo if I RMA this one to them). But yeah, it's probably gonna take some time cause the current mobo (Asus Z790-A Wifi) is out of stock.

Edit: for what it's worth, I'll upload a pic of the inside of the case tomorrow.

 

[Berfs1]

I don't have any other PCs (only laptops - which show no issues). I tried running with no fans connected, the sound was still there. At this point it's either what you say which is the mobo (but weird as it is not the source of the sound but rather the PSU) or there is interference from 3rd party sources. As I mentioned, there is no rhyme and reason to it, I couldn't pinpoint any scenario to trigger it at all. It is random, as far as I am concerned. Regarding what you wrote in the "edit", I tried disabling C-states (to no avail, sound still there) and also to set the minimum power of the CPU to 100% - again, same result, there is no change. As @LabRat 891 mentioned on the prev page, all of the "buzz" has the same frequency regardless of the PSU used and also regardless of the system being in or out of the case.

That being said, my LAST resort is to just try with a new mobo (which I might be able to do given I've bought all of my stuff on Amazon and they could send a replacement mobo if I RMA this one to them). But yeah, it's probably gonna take some time cause the current mobo (Asus Z790-A Wifi) is out of stock.

Edit: for what it's worth, I'll upload a pic of the inside of the case tomorrow.

Did you try disabling the wifi card and all wireless devices including mesh systems and routers? I get the feeling it could be external interference with the wifi card, since if it ships with a wifi card installed, it is always enabled by default. Also, if nothing else works, do return the motherboard BUT DO NOT GET THE SAME MODEL, get a different board. It's also possible it has to do with the VRM frequency, if you can control it in the BIOS, see if changing that setting will do anything, it should be in the DIGI+VRM section in the Asus BIOS. I'm just trying to remember what was causing this sound, I know I've heard this exact sound before in one of my older setups, gimme a few minutes haha

 

[necessary_chemical]

No, that I didn't try honestly. Unfortunately where my system is located I don't have access to connect the computer to a wired ethernet connection (oh how I would have wished to do that!) so probably I didn't do it cause it defeated the purpose (I mean if it had stopped with all the wifi and routers disabled, I wouldn't have a "working" PC according to my needs). I do have some lightbulbs and Apple TV connected through Matter so I'm not sure, at this point I think it can be anything.

In terms of messing wit the DIGI+VRM, haven't ever done undervolting/overclocking so I'm not sure what even to change and to what values for example. Edit: Sure, if you can remember anything around how you solved it, that'd be great

 

[Berfs1]

No, that I didn't try honestly. Unfortunately where my system is located I don't have access to connect the computer to a wired ethernet connection (oh how I would have wished to do that!) so probably I didn't do it cause it defeated the purpose (I mean if it had stopped with all the wifi and routers disabled, I wouldn't have a "working" PC according to my needs). I do have some lightbulbs and Apple TV connected through Matter so I'm not sure, at this point I think it can be anything.

In terms of messing wit the DIGI+VRM, haven't ever done undervolting/overclocking so I'm not sure what even to change and to what values for example

Okay, try disabling the wifi card first, if that doesn't do it, then disable/turn off all wireless devices near your computer, and see if that works. If it does, then you know it's not the motherboard.

As for undervolting and overclocking, some of the boot voltages may be in that section, but the main voltages you should be adjusting for overclocking are actually on the main page, not in DIGI+VRM. I mainly set current capabilities all the way to the highest percentage, all phase modes to Optimized or the default setting and NOT Extreme, and for some of my motherboards, if I disable VRM Spread Spectrum, Active Frequency Mode shows up and I enable that (which in turn will make VSS go away). Normally I don't recommend changing the frequencies in that section, but you might need to set it to a static frequency and maybe try low or try high settings (either should allow the system to boot, but your VRM noises may be different). Also do you have CPU spread spectrum enabled?

Oh one more thing, does this noise happen in the BIOS, or only when in Windows (or whatever OS you have installed)?

 

[necessary_chemical]

Ok, I've disabled the wifi card. Will now check the BIOS to see around the CPU Spread Spectrum (I assume it's by default since I don't remember seeing this option when I looked through it before). Will update this post

Alright so I cannot find CPU Spread Spectrum and inside of DIGI+VRM, all is on Auto, Current CPU Load Line calibration is Level 3 (but greyed out, can't change it) and CPU Power Duty Control is set to T. Probe. All of this is by default, I haven't changed any setting inside of the BIOS.

Also, haven't noticed if it does it in BIOS too but I'll just keep it running in BIOS now to see if it happens or not. The idea is that it surely happens while the PC is turned off for example.

 

[Berfs1]

Alright so I cannot find CPU Spread Spectrum and inside of DIGI+VRM

CPU Spread Spectrum is usually in the advanced tab, under CPU Configuration. It's usually set to auto by default, but sometimes that auto means disabled, sometimes it means enabled. You will know which one is active by looking at the BCLK, if it's fluctuating a lot, it's enabled, if it's staying within like 0.1 MHz (for BCLK), it probably is disabled, or if it is enabled it's set to a very short range.

If it's happening while the PC is off, and while the PC is in Windows, but NOT in BIOS, I'm guessing you might have some advanced network system to the point your router is pinging your desktop maybe for updates or something.

 

[necessary_chemical]

Ok so the BCLK is stable at 100Mhz (never fluctuating). I've disabled the wifi adapter and ever since there is no sound happening any more. Now again, it's random so I don't know if it's just not happened yet or the wifi adapter having interference is the culprit (when it's on and connected). But at least for now, there is no more sound after having it turned off

 

[Berfs1]

That's good to hear!

Ok so the BCLK is stable at 100Mhz. I've disabled the wifi adapter and ever since there is no sound happening any more. Now again, it's random so I don't know if it's just not happened yet or the wifi adapter having interference is the culprit. But at least for now, there is no more sound after having it turned off

Yeah so CPU Spread Spectrum is disabled, but since you aren't hearing the noise anymore (at least for now), I'm suspecting it is the wifi card, when it's under load it decides to make noise. Go ahead and reenable it and see if doing a speed test on the wifi card makes it emit more (or less) noise.

 

[necessary_chemical]

I've enabled it, done 3 Speedtest runs, no sound.

 

[Berfs1]

I've enabled it, done 3 Speedtest runs, no sound.

Ahh, but when the wifi card is NOT under any load, it makes the noise, right?

 

[necessary_chemical]

It's random, it can do the noise while I'm in a game, or watching YouTube but also when nothing is happening and the PC is just idling. I couldn't pinpoint a scenario where it does it 100%

It might be external interference with the wifi card when it's simply on, regardless of the load?

 

[Berfs1]

Gotcha, so your motherboard has an AX211 wifi chip, it's CNVIo2, so you can't replace it with PCIe versions like AX210, or AX200. Have you tried downloading the latest driver for it? I actually use the Intel Download Assistant app just to automatically update the wifi and bluetooth drivers whenever they are ready, otherwise it only takes like 50MB of my 32GB of RAM, and 0.2 GHz on my 8c8t 9900K, so no need to worry about the system utilization from it

 

[necessary_chemical]

Let me try and install it and see what is says, will edit the post once it's done

Ok so it's only found an update for the Bluetooth driver, the Wifi one is up to date. Btw, there is still no sound occurrence (in about 1hr so far)

 

[Berfs1]

Ok so it's only found an update for the Bluetooth driver, the Wifi one is up to date. Btw, there is still no sound occurrence (in about 1hr so far)

That's good! Did you keep the wifi card enabled? Fun fact, some BIOSes allow you to disable the WiFi portion of the card, and the bluetooth portion can remain enabled, mainly because the bluetooth portion is actually connected via a USB 2.0 bus.

 

[LabRat 891]

Haha right, it has EU plug

There is one weird thing that I just noticed. I powered off the PC and also flicked the PSU switch to OFF so that it doesn't (or shouldn't get any power). There IS STILL that buzz happening. What the hell is going on here?! Definitely a bit fainter than "normal" but ..... should there even be a buzz coming from the PC given that it has no power going to it? Is it like some residual electricity?

It's random, it can do the noise while I'm in a game, or watching YouTube but also when nothing is happening and the PC is just idling. I couldn't pinpoint a scenario where it does it 100%

It might be external interference with the wifi card when it's simply on, regardless of the load?

Imma leave this here and head out. This, is clearly above my pay grade.

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[necessary_chemical]

That's good! Did you keep the wifi card enabled? Fun fact, some BIOSes allow you to disable the WiFi portion of the card, and the bluetooth portion can remain enabled, mainly because the bluetooth portion is actually connected via a USB 2.0 bus.

Yes, it's enabled since around 20 minutes ago. Yep, I saw that option in the BIOS, honestly I'd like to keep both on as I'm using Bluetooth keyboard and mouse + also a pair of headphones from time to time (when I need to keep the noise down mostly haha)