Sandybridge era build - weighing pros cons of new platform versus a GPU upgrade

[newconroer]

Looking good there really is no wrong option you just got to decide what fits your needs better. Both platforms have their pros just grab a board that offers everything you need and you should be golden either way.

Ya the Gigabyte was recommended for use with AM5, so seems good place to start and their entry level ATX board has
3 PCIE 16
3 M.2
2.5gb LAN and the VRM/Phase looks reasonable


Concerning the drive

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/3QXJ7P/kingston-nv2-2-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-snv2s2000g

It claims PCI E 4 however all others in that price range are PCI E 3
I wonder about the NAND technology and TLC which from what I can see on their site it is not

And I noted some of these boards are PCIE 4.0 only, no 5.0 offering at that price range. Parts Picker hasn't that as a parameter to filter by

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Ya the Gigabyte was recommended for use with AM5, so seems good place to start and their entry level ATX board has
3 PCIE 16
3 M.2
2.5gb LAN and the VRM/Phase looks reasonable


My last concern now is the drive
It claims PCI E 4 however all others in that price range are PCI E 3
I wonder about the NAND technology and TLC which from what I can see on their site it is not

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/3QXJ7P/kingston-nv2-2-tb-m2-2280-pcie-40-x4-nvme-solid-state-drive-snv2s2000g

It runs at 3.0 speeds probably due to the controller otherwise it has a 3 year warranty. It would make a good game/data drive I'd probably lean towards somthing with a longer warranty as my primary OS drive.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Ya I have some NVME SSD already around here though it was about whether to use a PCI E version. I cannot remember how to describe them NVME or M.2 or... I thought some go into M.2 slots and others into PCI E
I also dubious about whether SSD in a PCI E slot takes any bandwidth from the GPU(or other components)
Saw this on TPU's review of the 13400F
"Only PCIe x8 graphics when Gen 5 M.2 slot in-use"

As for budget, around £500-600 Sterling, give or take

NVMe drives already use PCI Express, so an add-in card (AIC) format drive isn't needed or likely to bring you a lot of benefits. Don't get the 12th gen CPU unless its much much cheaper, imo.

I managed to get something going on with a Z790 DDR5 board, you can save a few bucks by opting for the 13600KF which doesn't have integrated graphics:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/HGg7Kp

As for the limitation regarding Gen 5 NVMe storage, this isn't something that affects every motherboard design, but it's also very unlikely to affect the GPU performance for the time being. 4.0 x8 is plenty of bandwidth still, equivalent to 3.0 x16. I wouldn't worry about it.

Also about the Kingston NV2: It's Gen 4 interface, but it performs like a Gen 3 drive, that's why the price is the same-ish. It shouldn't matter. If you want a higher performing SSD, though, look at the WD SN770 and up, IMO.

 

[newconroer]

NVMe drives already use PCI Express, so an add-in card (AIC) format drive isn't needed or likely to bring you a lot of benefits. Don't get the 12th gen CPU unless its much much cheaper, imo.

I managed to get something going on with a Z790 DDR5 board, you can save a few bucks by opting for the 13600KF which doesn't have integrated graphics:

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/HGg7Kp

As for the limitation regarding Gen 5 NVMe storage, this isn't something that affects every motherboard design, but it's also very unlikely to affect the GPU performance for the time being. 4.0 x8 is plenty of bandwidth still, equivalent to 3.0 x16. I wouldn't worry about it.

Also about the Kingston NV2: It's Gen 4 interface, but it performs like a Gen 3 drive, that's why the price is the same-ish. It shouldn't matter. If you want a higher performing SSD, though, look at the WD SN770 and up, IMO.

Any particular reason the motherboard as a Z790 instead of say Z690, B660 or B760?
And the RAM, is that particularly better than the Vengeance? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BFN8QTWM/ref=ewc_pr_img_2?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&th=1

It runs at 3.0 speeds probably due to the controller otherwise it has a 3 year warranty. It would make a good game/data drive I'd probably lean towards somthing with a longer warranty as my primary OS drive.

Are persons still separating out their 'gaming' and 'daily use' drives ? I figured with the 1TB and 2TB becoming common place, everything including paging file would all go on one.




Is anyone familiar with whether any particular brand for z690 is strong with Intel chips, similar to the advisement of Gigabyte for b650?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Any particular reason the move from 690 to 790?

At this segment, not really, no. The Z790 in higher end motherboards tend to have a better physical layout for memory (hits higher frequencies), but otherwise there's not much other than that you're guaranteed that your motherboard will come with a 13th gen compatible BIOS. Even then, I personally opted for a very high end Z690 motherboard instead of Z790 for my 13900KS build because I managed to get a great deal on it. That 6000 kit you found is at a very nice price, but it comes programmed with an EXPO profile (for AMD Ryzen CPUs), to the best of my knowledge, it should work with an Intel CPU but I'm unsure if there will be any XMP functionality present. Maybe @ir_cow can answer this one with more detail for you, I read many of his reviews to settle on the memory kit I've chosen for my build.

I don't separate my gaming and daily use drives, but I only have budget SSDs (two 480 GB WD SN350) for the time being, still haven't purchased a high-end one for my rig, and my computer is used almost exclusively for gaming. Most of the reasons to separate these were due to performance back with mechanical HDDs, but this isn't needed anymore.

 

[ir_cow]

@Dr. Dro To my knowledge all Z790/B760 come with support for all 13th Gen but the KS in the first BIOS revision. The motherboard in question should have a list of the supported CPUs and which version on the support page. Some are a PDF, others just have it as a wall of text.

As for ram, @newconroer you need to update the BIOS or it will not recognize the EXPO profile. Just runs at JEDEC 4800 otherwise. Not every motherboard supports EXPO either. Best to once again check the spec page of the motherboard you want to buy.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Just be careful running 13th gen with Z690/B660 boards as the bios might not support the 13th gen cpu's.

It happend to my mate. PC shop sold him Z690 with 13700K and it didn't boot. He had to borrow my 12900K for it to boot then flash.

If you're thinking about 13th gen maybe cover your arse and get B760/Z790 if it's not too much more.

I know some mobo's can flash without cpu's but it's still a PITA.

13400/13600/13700 all good cpu's.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[newconroer]

Thanks Bronze, and I have taken that note - was going to likely be B760 as a minimum if I could not find any confirmation a step down board actually supported 13th generation out of the box

I am still favoring AMD here, just wish the mother board was about £50 less costly!

That said, I see the 5600X seems to be pretty impressive still, passing the 7600/7600x on some occasions and the 5800x3D is still very competitive
Is this due to the x3D having slightly larger L1 cache and higher L3?

5800x3D base, comparative though aged and least cost

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/8r6WH2

vs

7600x base

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/36QHXy

This gets it under 600 again though by foregoing Gigabyte board* and using something else
*the less costly ones do not use 2280 format for m.2 which rules out the NVME I selected

Edit : found the board for less therefore cost dropped to £580

13600k base

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/X7RmbK

 

[neatfeatguy]

I haven't had time to really follow this thread, but from a few posts I've glanced over, I'd say I agree with a system overhaul before the GPU. When I ran GTX 570s in SLI with my PII x4 940 at 3.6GHz and then eventually moved to an i5-4670k (running stock), my performance gains were really impressive. Your 2600k is certainly holding back the 1080 Ti.

I dug up an old blog post from gamespot that I created back in May of 2015, the spoiler shows what is in it:

Spoiler

Hardware that stayed the same:

• GTX 570 in SLI
• 500GB & 1 TB WD Black Caviar HDDs
• 1000W CoolerMaster PSU
• Windows 7 64bit

AMD Build:

• Phenom II x4 940 OC'ed from 3.0 to 3.6
• ASRock K10N780SLIX3-WiFi
• 8GB DDR2 800

Intel Build:

• i5-4670k - stock speed
• ASRock Extreme 4 z87
• 8GB DDR3 1600

I ran a few of games: Metro 2033, Crysis and Just Cause 2. Each benchmark shows the results of the Phenom II x4 940 using 1 GTX 570 at stock speed (light purple), 1 GTX 570 OC'ed to 890/2050 (deep purple/maroon) and with two GTX 570s in SLI at stock speeds (light yellow). I ran each game again against the i5-4670k (light blue) with 570s in SLI.

As you can see, the performance gains in the game was awesome. I don't know what the deal is with Metro 2033 and the lows, so don't ask me.

Hopefully this will give you an idea of what you could expect to see - perhaps not to the same level, but hopefully similar - if you get a new CPU/MB/RAM first.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Thanks Bronze, and I have taken that note - was going to likely be B760 as a minimum if I could not find any confirmation a step down board actually supported 13th generation out of the box

I am still favoring AMD here, just wish the mother board was about £50 less costly!

That said, I see the 5600X seems to be pretty impressive still, passing the 7600/7600x on some occasions and the 5800x3D is still very competitive
Is this due to the x3D having slightly larger L1 cache and higher L3?

5800x3D base, comparative though aged and least cost

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/8r6WH2

vs

7600x base

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/36QHXy

This gets it under 600 again though by foregoing Gigabyte board* and using something else
*the less costly ones do not use 2280 format for m.2 which rules out the NVME I selected

Edit : found the board for less therefore cost dropped to £580

13600k base

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/X7RmbK

IF you never plan on upgrading the CPU in socket the 13600k build is by far the best overall.

the AM5 system only makes sense if you expect to upgrade the cpu in 3 years ish.

The 5800X3D is solid and even though I like it better than the 7600 I wouldn't trade the more modern platforms of the other two builds for it.

 

[ir_cow]

the AM5 system only makes sense if you expect to upgrade the cpu in 3 years ish.

Yeah, AMD says that socket is supported through 2025. So expect Zen5 and Zen6 CPUs. Upgrade to the last X3D one on the socket isn't so bad. Plus you would already have PCIE Gen 5 support (assuming you bought a "E" motherboard).

 

[newconroer]

Yeah, AMD says that socket is supported through 2025. So expect Zen5 and Zen6 CPUs. Upgrade to the last X3D one on the socket isn't so bad. Plus you would already have PCIE Gen 5 support (assuming you bought a "E" motherboard).

Outside of cost that might be the two things that lean AMD, socket flexibility/upgrade and Gen 5 support

That said, I am also trying to find some indication this board is reasonable
Gigabyte b760-ds3h


I did some further checks about my prior question over whether high CPU dependent games favor AMD or Intel. Thought I had it fairly certain then some more articles conflicted with the results!

 

[dgianstefani]

Outside of cost that might be the two things that lean AMD, socket flexibility/upgrade and Gen 5 support

That said, I am also trying to find some indication this board is reasonable
Gigabyte b760-ds3h


I did some further checks about my prior question over whether high CPU dependent games favor AMD or Intel. Thought I had it fairly certain then some more articles conflicted with the results!

You're debating getting a 6 core instead of a 14 core because maybe you will upgrade in future.

They perform similarly, Zen is 10-20% slower unless the game is latency sensitive in which case Intel is faster.

PCIE gen 5 is irrelevant gpus don't even saturate gen 3 and ssd sequential speed doesn't matter.

Just to be clear.

Intel Core i5-13600K Review - Best Gaming CPU

Core i5-13600K is a gamer's dream! The new processor achieves gaming numbers that match the best AMD Zen 4 offerings, at a much more competitive $320 price point. Our review also shows that 13600K can shine in applications, beating the much higher positioned Core i7-12700K.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[oxrufiioxo]

You're debating getting a 6 core instead of a 14 core because maybe you will upgrade in future.

The OP should only go AM5 if he definitely plans on grabbing whatever the last X3D chip it supports if not the 13600K is the better overall system.


I think the op is of the mind that he is going to use this system for a decade probably why gen5 is appealing I have my doubts it will be viable that long though but would love to be wrong.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Outside of cost that might be the two things that lean AMD, socket flexibility/upgrade and Gen 5 support

That said, I am also trying to find some indication this board is reasonable
Gigabyte b760-ds3h

I did some further checks about my prior question over whether high CPU dependent games favor AMD or Intel. Thought I had it fairly certain then some more articles conflicted with the results!

B760 is locked, just like the B75 on socket 1155. Don't use a K processor with one. IMO cow's advice is sound, the 13600K (or KF, if budget is tight and you can spare the integrated graphics support) is definitely the way to go.

 

[wNotyarD]

The OP should only go AM5 if he definitely plans on grabbing whatever the last X3D chip it supports if not the 13600K is the better overall system.


I think the op is of the mind that he is going to use this system for a decade probably why gen5 is appealing I have my doubts it will be viable that long though but would love to be wrong.

Aren't the 600 and 700 Intel chipsets PCIe 5.0 capable as well?
It's fine that AM5 will be upgradeable. If AMD follows on its word and on AM4 legacy, op could buy a 7600 now and a 9900X3D down the road while still selling the 7600 to mitigate upgrade costs.
Getting LGA1700 is the fire and forget option. And for someone who is still running Sandy Bridge? Doesn't look like anything close to an issue.

B760 is locked, just like the B75 on socket 1155. Don't use a K processor with one. IMO cow's advice is sound, the 13600K (or KF, if budget is tight and you can spare the integrated graphics support) is definitely the way to go.

It isn't only about the unlocked multiplier. K will have the best clocks and memory support out of the box.
Also, non-K 13th gen is either Alder Lake or crippled Raptor Lake. Godd options no doubt (I myself mentioned the 13500), just not the greatest.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Aren't the 600 and 700 Intel chipsets PCIe 5.0 capable as well?
It's fine that AM5 will be upgradeable. If AMD follows on its word and on AM4 legacy, op could buy a 7600 now and a 9900X3D down the road while still selling the 7600 to mitigate upgrade costs.
Getting LGA1700 is the fire and forget option. And for someone who is still running Sandy Bridge? Doesn't look like anything close to an issue.

Yes, Z690 supports PCIe gen 5, though I imagine it's a feature omitted in lower cost motherboards, just like on AMD's product stack.

 

[Hugis]

Late to the party but i came from a 4770k/z97/ddr3/1080ti

I would deffo move to a new platform as many have stated, going to b660(ddr4) and 12500 has given the 1080ti a noticeable lift in performance !

Good luck in your decision(my choice would be 13500)

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Aren't the 600 and 700 Intel chipsets PCIe 5.0 capable as well?
It's fine that AM5 will be upgradeable. If AMD follows on its word and on AM4 legacy, op could buy a 7600 now and a 9900X3D down the road while still selling the 7600 to mitigate upgrade costs.
Getting LGA1700 is the fire and forget option. And for someone who is still running Sandy Bridge? Doesn't look like anything close to an issue.


It isn't only about the unlocked multiplier. K will have the best clocks and memory support out of the box.
Also, non-K 13th gen is either Alder Lake or crippled Raptor Lake.

Unless that is the plan at least to me it doesn't make a lot of sense whatever the last X3D chip it supports will likely obliterate the 13600K while using half the power but if that isn't appealing to the OP AM5 just isn't worth it.

The 13600k is much more the I want to buy just one cpu and try to roll with it as long as possible option if the OP doesn't want to jump up to something like the 7800X3D anyway.

 

[newconroer]

Unless that is the plan at least to me it doesn't make a lot of sense whatever the last X3D chip it supports will likely obliterate the 13600K while using half the power but if that isn't appealing to the OP AM5 just isn't worth it.

The 13600k is much more the I want to buy just one cpu and try to roll with it as long as possible option if the OP doesn't want to jump up to something like the 7800X3D anyway.

I do appreciate the medium time period plan of utilizing AMD's socket roadmap and replacing the CPU (If needed, it may not be needed..) with a newer one


7800X3D is a bit costly and there are a few things in between price /performance wise however 7600x seems like a fair jumping off point with the option to step up /upgrade later


AM5 suits my cooling setup as well since the XC7 block supports it (and not LGA 1700)
I suppose should I find a noticeably cheap LGA 1700 capable block, I could replace the XC7 though been a while since I looked at any of those types of products.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I was just saying the 7600X is the better wait and see option if you need more cpu grunt down the line AM5 likely gives you a much better upgrade option 3 years from now without swapping the board imo this is the main selling point of AM5

If you already have cooling that supports AM5 even more points in it's favor nothing wrong with trying to reuse whatever you can.

There are benefits and disadvantages to all the builds you have listed but you can't really go wrong either way always best to go with what you think fits your needs best and sometimes just buying whatever is fastest isn't the answer.

 

[newconroer]

I was just saying the 7600X is the better wait and see option if you need more cpu grunt down the line AM5 likely gives you a much better upgrade option 3 years from now without swapping the board imo this is the main selling point of AM5

If you already have cooling that supports AM5 even more points in it's favor nothing wrong with trying to reuse whatever you can.

There are benefits and disadvantages to all the builds you have listed but you can't really go wrong either way always best to go with what you think fits your needs best and sometimes just buying whatever is fastest isn't the answer.

Of course

I am mindful that the intel option gets noticeably more expensive when jumping up to the 13600k, adding a new CPU block and etc.
Unfortunately I cannot find a motherboard so cheap that it offsets the above cost increase - and the ones I have looked at the b670s seem potentially capable of starving or limiting a 13600K, dare I say 'waste' it in a way.

If someone sees a nice Z690 for cheap or knows when the 13600 non K is arriving (I cannot find it for sale anywhere) - holler!

EDIT: Is it the case these entry B650s do not support Ryzen 9, only lower Ryzen series?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Dq4Zxr/asrock-b650m-hdvm2-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-b650m-hdvm2

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Of course

I am mindful that the intel option gets noticeably more expensive when jumping up to the 13600k, adding a new CPU block and etc.
Unfortunately I cannot find a motherboard so cheap that it offsets the above cost increase - and the ones I have looked at the b670s seem potentially capable of starving or limiting a 13600K, dare I say 'waste' it in a way.

If someone sees a nice X690 for cheap or knows when the 13600 non K is arriving (I cannot find it for sale anywhere) - holler!

I think that part was also supposed to be Alderlake which again is fine I just don't think it would be worth saving a couple bucks and not getting full Raptorlake without the castrated cache intel seems to want to do on anything below the 13600k.

 

[tabascosauz]

EDIT: Is it the case these entry B650s do not support Ryzen 9, only lower Ryzen series?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Dq4Zxr/asrock-b650m-hdvm2-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-b650m-hdvm2

That's more a case of some VRMs not being enough to handle a 162W (X3D Ryzen 9) or 230W (Ryzen 9) part. Too many boards out there to tar with the same brush, but the ASRock one you linked is a pretty stout board that should easily handle at least the 162W X3Ds. Unless ASRock has really gone on a spree of removing CPUs from its budget board support lists.

If you are drawn in by the promise of platform longevity, then at least go for a B650E board. Plenty of good choices there.

edit: had to double check, looks like the HDV handles even the 230W 7950X no sweat.

 

[wNotyarD]

EDIT: Is it the case these entry B650s do not support Ryzen 9, only lower Ryzen series?

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product/Dq4Zxr/asrock-b650m-hdvm2-micro-atx-am5-motherboard-b650m-hdvm2

Not the case at all, you can run even a 7950X on B650 (and A620 when it arrives, but then that'd limit some functions like PBO).