US Government Targeting Crypto Miners With Proposed Energy Bill Tax

[R-T-B]

Let's say you're my coworker and you put your money in Celsius.

Oh right. All that money is gone, and there weren't any evil governments that popped out and stole his money.

It's just an average month in Cryptoland. Celsius, Voyager, FTX, Mt. Gox.

Your money was safer in pretty much everything else than in Cryptocoin.

I mean if you were fleeing a country and
used an exchange wallet you were doing it wrong.

The correct answer is the situation is contrived. Use fucking cash.

 

[phubar]

Yep its a dumb contrived scenario that doesn't reflect the real world well.

Having a extra stash of cash in the house or something is the best choice if you're worried about the govt. telling banks to lock your account.

Also the govt. can get your crypto wallets too now BTW.

Even the terrorists and drug dealers are starting to reject crypto as a form of secret and secure transfers.

 

[AusWolf]

You live in a nation and are making a nice living, suddenly that nation sees an evil government take power and you have no option but to flee.

situation a) you have some btc tucked away somewhere hidden on the internet.
situation b) you only have money in the bank a bank that was ordered by the government to lock your accounts because your are some sort of evil.

which one is the best scenario

Evil government that maintains roads, hospitals, schools, the military (defence), emergency services, etc. Yeah, right...

I'm not saying that politicians use every penny of your tax for the common good, but would you rather maintain the highways yourself and/or watch your house burn down with no fire department to help you?

Edit: the decentralised nature of crypto doesn't make it better than anything else. A friend of mine lost over £10k worth of coins overnight. This would have never happened had he kept it in British pound sterling. Just because it isn't run by an "evil" government, it doesn't mean it isn't run by anyone evil.

Yep its a dumb contrived scenario that doesn't reflect the real world well.

Having a extra stash of cash in the house or something is the best choice if you're worried about the govt. telling banks to lock your account.

Also the govt. can get your crypto wallets too now BTW.

Even the terrorists and drug dealers are starting to reject crypto as a form of secret and secure transfers.

Why would the government lock your account? You spending your money is in their best interest (does VAT ring a bell?). Money that sits on its own just devalues over time and is no use to anyone.

 

[80251]

AusWolf is certainly right about fire departments, it used to be a PAID service. If you didn't pay them, they let your house/business burn.

 

[AusWolf]

AusWolf is certainly right about fire departments, it used to be a PAID service. If you didn't pay them, they let your house/business burn.

Same as hospitals and highways. I know in some countries they still are paid services (you need private insurance in the US, or buy highway passes and tickets in some other countries), but here in the UK, you pay your national insurance (taken straight from your salary), and road tax on your car, and you've got it all covered with nothing extra to pay.

 

[phubar]

Why would the government lock your account? You spending your money is in their best interest (does VAT ring a bell?). Money that sits on its own just devalues over time and is no use to anyone.

At least in the US if the money in your account is believed to be related to crimes they can indeed temporarily freeze the account for a while.

They can't just freeze it for 0 reasons though. They need a approved court order and they have to notify you why and how long they plan on freezing it for.

If you're convicted of relevant crimes then they can potentially confiscate the money and/or fine you on top of that...but that requires conviction. Again they can't just do whatever they want.

There are issues of people getting money they have on them confiscated in the US when they're arrested or stopped and searched for other unrelated reasons but that is a whole other type of mess unrelated to that guy's scenario.

AusWolf is certainly right about fire departments, it used to be a PAID service. If you didn't pay them, they let your house/business burn.

Yep.

Historically that used to be normal for most of written history. The modern idea of a paid public on call fire brigade is a pretty recent thing that only goes back to the mid-ish 1800's.

 

[64K]

AusWolf is certainly right about fire departments, it used to be a PAID service. If you didn't pay them, they let your house/business burn.

It must have been an ugly thing back in the day to let a member of the community's house burn to the ground and do nothing because they hadn't paid. I have even heard of instances where the Fire Brigade would tamp down the fire on a person's home who hadn't paid to prevent the fire from spreading to a homeowner who had paid but still they would let the unpaid person's home burn to the ground and do nothing about that.

 

[AusWolf]

At least in the US if the money in your account is believed to be related to crimes they can indeed temporarily freeze the account for a while.

They can't just freeze it for 0 reasons though. They need a approved court order and they have to notify you why and how long they plan on freezing it for.

If you're convicted of relevant crimes then they can potentially confiscate the money and/or fine you on top of that...but that requires conviction. Again they can't just do whatever they want.

There are issues of people getting money they have on them confiscated in the US when they're arrested or stopped and searched for other unrelated reasons but that is a whole other type of mess unrelated to that guy's scenario.

If you're a criminal, sure. Are you suggesting that being a criminal and using crypto is better than being a law-abiding citizen and using your country's tried and trusted currency?

 

[phubar]

If you're a criminal, sure. Are you suggesting that being a criminal and using crypto is better than being a law-abiding citizen and using your country's tried and trusted currency?

Nope.

I think you're reading a lil' too much into my comments.

 

[AusWolf]

Nope.

I think you're reading a lil' too much into my comments.

Really?

Having a extra stash of cash in the house or something is the best choice if you're worried about the govt. telling banks to lock your account.

I'm not sure why you would suggest having a stash of cash at home, or even think about the government locking your account.

 

[phubar]

Really?

I'm not sure why you would suggest having a stash of cash at home, or even think about the government locking your account.

Yes really.

It was an attempt at a serious answer to the BS set up that poster had posted.

If you want to read more into it that is on you.

 

[AusWolf]

Yes really.

It was an attempt at a serious answer to the BS set up that poster had posted.

If you want to read more into it that is on you.

What poster? What set up?

Tip: use the reply button and quotes if you're replying to someone else's comment, just like you did with mine.

 

[80251]

Isn't cryptocurrency still the medium of exchange on the Dark Web (you know for things like child porn, addictive narcotics and illegal arms deals).

 

[R-T-B]

Also the govt. can get your crypto wallets too now BTW.

Not paper wallets really. But the government can make it hard as hell to redeem them, which is basically the same.

If you're a criminal, sure. Are you suggesting that being a criminal and using crypto is better than being a law-abiding citizen and using your country's tried and trusted currency?

Keep in mind what's criminal varies from country to country, and one countries criminal can be another countries whistleblower. But yes he was responding to a pretty strange theoretical. He's not honestly suggesting you follow that advice pattern.

 

[dragontamer5788]

Isn't cryptocurrency still the medium of exchange on the Dark Web (you know for things like child porn, addictive narcotics and illegal arms deals).

I heard it was actually Tide detergent and Amazon gift cards, actually. Not that I'm actually into organized crime or know the truth or anything.

The idea is that you want to deal with things that have very high sales, so that a pop-up store selling Tide detergent (or other basic commodities) won't look too fishy and therefore can be used to effectively launder money (ha ha, I know, the puns write themselves).

That being said, the specific crime of "ransomware" attacks (ie: hack a Hospital's computer. Threaten to delete everything unless someone gives you BTC, etc. etc.) is especially well suited for cryptocurrencies, so cryptocoins are used for that particular crime.

 

[R0H1T]

I mean if you were fleeing a country and
used an exchange wallet you were doing it wrong.

The correct answer is the situation is contrived. Use fucking cash.

While fleeing a country I wouldn't take its cash ~

• Diamonds
• Gold
• Coke
• Spice

And a few other things would be on my list of (valuable)things that would replace its cash. This of course assumes that you probably don't want to be tracked.

 

[80251]

While fleeing a country I wouldn't take its cash ~

• Diamonds
• Gold
• Coke
• Spice

And a few other things would be on my list of (valuable)things that would replace its cash. This of course assumes that you probably don't want to be tracked.

Would that be diet coke, cherry coke or regular coke? I never knew coke was such a hot commodity.

 

[R-T-B]

While fleeing a country I wouldn't take its cash ~

• Diamonds
• Gold
• Coke
• Spice

And a few other things would be on my list of (valuable)things that would replace its cash. This of course assumes that you probably don't want to be tracked.

That attracts attention but you do you. I'm still of the opinion you should avoid this situation. Especially since it was built to serve a very specific agendas argument in TPU forums.

 

[R0H1T]

Sure I was just saying that if you're fleeing a nation taking its currency wouldn't be my choice. I'd just get a stash of Saffron (or diamonds) instead & try to flee with that. Of course those things would take some space as well if you're trying to flee with millions.

Would that be diet coke, cherry coke or regular coke? I never knew coke was such a hot commodity.

The other coke which gets you execution in many SE Asian nations.

There's also Amazon, PSN, Xbox, Steam gift cards et al & they're virtually untraceable! But again a high volume/value will attract undue attention.

 

[R-T-B]

Sure I was just saying that if you're fleeing a nation taking its currency wouldn't be my choice. I'd just get a stash of Saffron (or diamonds) instead & try to flee with that. Of course those things would take some space as well if you're trying to flee with millions.

The other coke which gets you execution in many SE Asian nations.

There's also Amazon, PSN, Xbox, Steam gift cards et al & they're virtually untraceable! But again a high volume/value will attract undue attention.

We were talking about detergent at one point, would tide pods work?

 

[phubar]

What poster? What set up?

The guy who posted the absurd A or B type choice to his made up scenario.

It was litterally just a few posts before mine on that comment so you gotta get to reading the thread properly.

 

[AusWolf]

you gotta get to reading the thread properly.

No. You gotta get to reply to posts properly.

 

[kondamin]

The guy who posted the absurd A or B type choice to his made up scenario.

It was litterally just a few posts before mine on that comment so you gotta get to reading the thread properly.

It’s funny how you think what I’m suggesting is absurd while it’s happening all over the world.
Happened in Iraq, happened in Turkey where they basically confiscated all foreign currency and gave you lira that is still devaluating like a rock dropped from a building.

Pretty certain you can forget about taking your money out of Russia or China And just getting fto.

you don’t need to be a criminal to be treated like one.
plenty of wrongful convictions and the world isn’t just.

 

[AusWolf]

It’s funny how you think what I’m suggesting is absurd while it’s happening all over the world.
Happened in Iraq, happened in Turkey where they basically confiscated all foreign currency and gave you lira that is still devaluating like a rock dropped from a building.

Pretty certain you can forget about taking your money out of Russia or China And just getting fto.

you don’t need to be a criminal to be treated like one.
plenty of wrongful convictions and the world isn’t just.

Yeah, crypto is much better. With crypto, you don't even have to leave your country, or go through a regime change for your investment to lose 99% of its value overnight. It just does that anyway. Absolutely brilliant!

 

[phubar]

No. You gotta get to reply to posts properly.

I did.

You gotta learn to read the thread in order and understand the context before posting. Your posting is all on you.

It’s funny how you think what I’m suggesting is absurd while it’s happening all over the world.

Your scenario didn't include wartime or 'oh shit' emergency conditions where crypto is useless anyways (you want beans, bullets, or bullion in those scenarios, paper or electronic currencies are all trash at that point). Just vague handwavey "bad govt taking your money" nonsense with a dishonest set up of only 2 options given when you know the real world doesn't work like that.

Its worth pointing out that hundreds of thousands of people fled those respective countries or moved their money out weeks or months prior. I dunno know the numbers at all for Turkey but in Russia enough people left that its actually causing serious issues with their war efforts and is well over several hundred thousands of people left a while ago. Probably around a million or so by now.

The writing was on the figurative wall for a while in each case. The people who got screwed were the ones who weren't being proactive or were too poor to do any saving or prep in the first place. If you're not proactive in most any scenario remotely like that you're screwed by default anyways. Not saying that makes it right, that is just reality.

plenty of wrongful convictions and the world isn’t just.

Sure but none of that has anything to do with your contrived set up and if you're convicted, wrongfully or otherwise, having a stash of crypto won't help you in prison even assuming it doesn't get confiscated immediately.

Public distributed ledger systems aren't very good for secrecy. The few that are actually geared towards a strong anonymity model have near 0 utility for actually buying goods and services (they're almost exclusively use for money laundering) and are pretty difficult to actually use at all unless you're a whale and fairly savy at that. Because the exchanges that use them are also rather prone to stealing the wallets or other scams to skim transfers in and out of them to other currencies.

Basically any which way you look at crypto is a fool's option in a realistic SHTF (or really most any other) scenario.