One human's journey with an Arc A750

[80-watt Hamster]

Some weeks back, a fellow forumite noted that A750s were $250 at Newegg. "Hey," think I to myself, "that hits my newly-raised self-imposed price ceiling for a graphics card." Then promptly think about other things, because I bought a 1070 ti not all that long ago, and an RTX 3050 not terribly long before that. And the A750 isn't that much faster than a 1070 ti anyway. But the fact took up residence in the back of my brain, and impulse control finally failed last week. With a $250-lighter wallet, there is now a very handsome A750 in a box in my office.

"Why in a box," I hear/imagine you asking. A fair question, and deserving of an answer. Once I found some time for installation, I proceed to prepare for the operation.

--

Day One. Uninstall 1070 ti via Device Manager (leaving drivers), reboot into BIOS to enable resizable BAR, which does not work. On reboot, the system kicks me back into BIOS. This continues to happen until I disable ReBAR. Maybe Pascal doesn't like it? Whatever; shut down, pull the GeForce, and drop in the ARC. Same behavior; can't get past post with ReBAR on. Problem with the MoBo (ASUS B450M-A II, which has been otherwise stellar)? Well, BAR off is a performance hit, but it should still work.

Huzzah! We get past POST. However, we're soft locking apparently at random. First boot wouldn't load login prompt. Second does, but as services are starting, the screen goes to a low-res image of the desktop background, and I hear the notification bell, as though there's a confirmation prompt off-screen. No common keyboard inputs will dismiss/confirm this phantom prompt. Force reset. This situation recurs on every boot, at varying intervals post-login. After a few attempts, I retain input control long enough to disable Intel software on startup. This seems to solve the issue.

This was not, however, the only issue. Certain software is now acting weird. Firefox seemed to soft lock the system on the F@H control page. Hwinfo64 self-terminates, and on the fourth launch attempt either coincides with or causes a soft lock. Well, it's an old-ish version; maybe it doesn't play nice with ARC yet. On next reboot I disable all startup items in Task Manager, get rid of Run keys for Intel software in the registry, and reboot once more. OS loads without incident, so it's time to try a game; let's go with FFXIV.

FFXIV launches with no drama. Slight drama on the login screen, though; background effects and animations are dropping frames all over the place. Symptom of no ReBAR? Who knows; I'm through the queue now anyway. Performance in-game seems fine. Subjectively and at first blush, camera movement seem smoother than on the 1070 ti. I run around Drybone (I think) for a bit, then end up tabbing out (to Firefox?) for reasons I don't recall, possibly to look up BIOS versions for my board. Of course, the ASUS support site is down. And the system has now soft-locked anyway.

--

Day Two. I got shizz to do, and it's game night with a friend tonight. Better drop the 1070 ti back in. Uninstall Intel software, uninstall A750 through DevMan, deleting driver software this time. Swap cards, bring system back up and check on startup items. Wait; why are there entries for Intel Control and Driver Support in Services? I uninstalled those! Jeebus, Intel; sort out your software. O hey, and my G410 has fallen back on default key colors. That's right; everything's disabled. So I manually run GHub, and it just sits there and spins on the splash screen. Restart to same result. Uninstall and reinstall, no dice. Uninstall, download and install latest version to identical effect. Did Intel's software actually break my system!? Everything else works so far, but I've no idea why GHub would arbitrarily just Not Work. Oh, along the way I discover that ARC cards can't F@H because they don't have FP64 in hardware, and Intel's software FP64 emulation isn't reliable enough. Curses.

Potential Future Actions:
BIOS update (if available)
Windows Update to 22H2 (still on 21H2)
OS reinstall
Beta drivers (using WHQL to this point)
Attempt card installation on Z590 system

@dirtyferret @AusWolf

 

[LabRat 891]

Test RAM. (Dunno what best tool is today)
Reset CMOS.

Also, you're on the right track; I would be updating BIOS/UEFI. I believe there's been some AGESA updates that address ReBAR stability/compatibility.

Also, in Boot settings CSM must be off; secure boot must be enabled for ReBAR to work.


Oh, and I basically did the same thing with a 6500 XT, when I had an RX 580. It was very slightly faster, even with half the VRAM.

 

[nomdeplume]

Why did you leave the Nvidia drivers installed?

I'm going with OS reinstall on spare drive + fully up to date WU + BIOS up to date fixes this. Good luck, human and Arc A750.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Test RAM. (Dunno what best tool is today)
Reset CMOS.

Also, you're on the right track; I would be updating BIOS/UEFI. I believe there's been some AGESA updates that address ReBAR stability/compatibility.

Also, in Boot settings CSM must be off; secure boot must be enabled for ReBAR to work.


Oh, and I basically did the same thing with a 6500 XT, when I had an RX 580. It was very slightly faster, even with half the VRAM.

I may test RAM if other steps don't work. Nothing so far points to bad memory. Clear CMOS couldn't hurt; I haven't tried that yet.

This BIOS automatically disables CSM when enabling ReBAR, conveniently enough.

Why did you leave the Nvidia drivers installed?

I'm going with OS reinstall on spare drive + fully up to date WU + BIOS up to date fixes this. Good luck, human and Arc A750.

Experience to this point has shown little or no detriment to different vendors' drivers lying dormant. An earlier iteration of this system was subjected to regular swaps of Nvidia to AMD and back without uninstall between to no apparent issue. Figured it would be faster to get back up and running should I need fall back on the old card (which I did) if the drivers were still present. Planning on being more thorough on the next attempt.

 

[LabRat 891]

Experience to this point has shown little or no detriment to different vendors' drivers lying dormant. An earlier iteration of this system was subjected to regular swaps of Nvidia to AMD and back without uninstall between to no apparent issue. Figured it would be faster to get back up and running should I need fall back on the old card (which I did) if the drivers were still present. Planning on being more thorough on the next attempt.

Regardless, I'd say by the symptoms presented, "drivers" are on the low-end of probable causes.

As to my reasoning on RAM testing:
Softlocks (and BSODs, and hardcrashes) and especially on/off no POST/RAM-training fails (which appear like long/no POSTs on my X570 and A320 from Asus) can point towards bad/unstable RAM/settings.
On my A320 mATX board, I've had similar symptoms-as-described using: DOCP, 'labeled stock', and even the 'compatibility' JEDEC SPD Clocks/Timings/Voltages.

(of note: softlocks are, in my experience, a common symptom of bad cable/connection or failing drive. It does not have to be "C: drive" with the problem either. BTW, I have 'damaged' SATA cables and mis-seated NVMe drives while installing/unstalling GPUs. oops.)

 

[dirtyferret]

Once I found some time for installation, I proceed to prepare for the operation.

I believe you said in another post you installed it this week (or the previous week) so drivers are fairly recent. These are not the drivers intel offered at the initial release.

 

[nomdeplume]

Was merely wondering why one would go to the trouble of partially removing something that has a strong position inside this conflict.

Not long ago I had similar issues partially removing graphic/utility software to pare down their behaviors. So this was an instructive for me, not OP.

 

[AusWolf]

Oh my, that's a lot of hassle just to get a GPU working! Has there been any progress so far?

When I installed the newest driver for my 11700 (UHD 750), the Arc control panel wouldn't open. I had to downgrade to the one before. It's one step forward, one step back with Intel drivers, it seems.

 

[eidairaman1]

Oh my, that's a lot of hassle just to get a GPU working! Has there been any progress so far?

When I installed the newest driver for my 11700 (UHD 750), the Arc control panel wouldn't open. I had to downgrade to the one before. It's one step forward, one step back with Intel drivers, it seems.

You'd think for as many years Intel has had an igp that they'd get their drivers right the first time everytime.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Oh my, that's a lot of hassle just to get a GPU working! Has there been any progress so far?

When I installed the newest driver for my 11700 (UHD 750), the Arc control panel wouldn't open. I had to downgrade to the one before. It's one step forward, one step back with Intel drivers, it seems.

Not yet, or possibly maybe; I just don't have the required time to mess with it right now. I think I know why it won't boot with reBAR enabled, though: As another member posted above, reBAR and CSM are mutually exclusive, and I think my Windows installation requires CSM enabled. When it's not, the BIOS recognizes the NVMe drive, but not as a bootable device. It will, however, boot from USB stick in this state.

Side note: This board's been good to me overall, but man do I hate the BIOS UI. Give me MSI's layout any day.

 

[bubbleawsome]

On my system without changing a GPU ever I’ve had GHUB installs nuke themselves out of the blue so I doubt that one is related

 

[64K]

You'd think for as many years Intel has had an igp that they'd get their drivers right the first time everytime.

Taking into account the lack of effort on Intel's part to support their dGPUs and the lack of marketing I get the impression that they aren't serious about being competitive in the commercial side of GPUs. I could be wrong but we'll see over the next couple of years. As always the old saying holds true.
"Actions speak louder than words".

 

[eidairaman1]

Taking into account the lack of effort on Intel's part to support their dGPUs and the lack of marketing I get the impression that they aren't serious about being competitive in the commercial side of GPUs. I could be wrong but we'll see over the next couple of years. As always the old saying holds true.
"Actions speak louder than words".

Raja yet again promised and was fired

 

[Mussels]

Rebar will disable if you dont have UEFI boot - as soon as CSM is enabled, rebar is disabled.

Google found a working link, but going in via the website normally results in a blank page
PRIME B450M-A II｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global
Definitely try a newer BIOS, as it has AGESA 1.2.0.8 available and that may help - loading optimised defaults can help with hardware changes, too.
(CMOS reset doesnt always load the same as optimised defaults, and no i have no idea why)


Regarding RAM, don't forget that the infinity fabric is part of this. You can stress test that RAM all day long and have it pass every test for the system to crash under normal use, because you pushed the memory controller/IF too far

I'm not seeing any specs for this system, post a Zentimings screenshot?
You don't even state the CPU, not all AM4 CPU's support REBAR. 3000 and 5000 series do, but the 3000G series don't, nor does anything older.

Experience to this point has shown little or no detriment to different vendors' drivers lying dormant

Oh it's rarely the drivers - it's the *services*
If you install asus aura and then move that OS to another brands motherboard it'll BSOD on boot instantly, and the only fix is to safe mode and disable the asus service, so you can reboot and uninstall it in normal mode


I'll say that Nvidia/AMD/Intel GPU drivers rarely have any issues other than some bloated RAM usage (like Geforce experience with an AMD GPU - no real performance loss, just pointless RAM usage)
But the software and extras, especially for motherboards? THAT stuff breaks everything. Like how iCue and HWinfo still can't get along without freezing up the commander pro, despite hundreds of updates.

 

[AusWolf]

Not yet, or possibly maybe; I just don't have the required time to mess with it right now. I think I know why it won't boot with reBAR enabled, though: As another member posted above, reBAR and CSM are mutually exclusive, and I think my Windows installation requires CSM enabled. When it's not, the BIOS recognizes the NVMe drive, but not as a bootable device. It will, however, boot from USB stick in this state.

Side note: This board's been good to me overall, but man do I hate the BIOS UI. Give me MSI's layout any day.

That sounds like a complete Windows reinstall waiting.

As for motherboard BIOS/UEFI layouts, I've limited myself to Asus and MSi (Asus with Intel, MSi with AMD after the recent fiasco).

Raja yet again promised and was fired

He wasn't fired. He came to a mutual agreement with Intel to swap to a position that is potentially better suited for his talent.

 

[DrCR]

I think my Windows installation requires CSM enabled. When it's not, the BIOS recognizes the NVMe drive, but not as a bootable device. It will, however, boot from USB stick in this state.

Yeah, does sound like a reinstall is needful (with CSM disabled and drive GPT not MBR). Mayhaps a sysprep and image might be sufficient vs pure reinstall, but differ to others on that as my WinOS foo is quite rusty indeed.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Rebar will disable if you dont have UEFI boot - as soon as CSM is enabled, rebar is disabled.

Google found a working link, but going in via the website normally results in a blank page
PRIME B450M-A II｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global
Definitely try a newer BIOS, as it has AGESA 1.2.0.8 available and that may help - loading optimised defaults can help with hardware changes, too.
(CMOS reset doesnt always load the same as optimised defaults, and no i have no idea why)

BIOS is updated to latest with no change in behaviour.

Regarding RAM, don't forget that the infinity fabric is part of this. You can stress test that RAM all day long and have it pass every test for the system to crash under normal use, because you pushed the memory controller/IF too far

I'm not seeing any specs for this system, post a Zentimings screenshot?
You don't even state the CPU, not all AM4 CPU's support REBAR. 3000 and 5000 series do, but the 3000G series don't, nor does anything older.

You're quite right; I did not list full specs. Would you allow an edit to OP so I can add?

Ryzen 5600G
ASUS B450M-A II
Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3200 2 x 8 GB @ JEDEC 2666
EVGA GTX 1070 ti SC / Intel ARC A750
PNY CS1030 250GB
WD10EZEX
EVGA 550 G3

 

[eidairaman1]

That sounds like a complete Windows reinstall waiting.

As for motherboard BIOS/UEFI layouts, I've limited myself to Asus and MSi (Asus with Intel, MSi with AMD after the recent fiasco).


He wasn't fired. He came to a mutual agreement with Intel to swap to a position that is potentially better suited for his talent.

Sarcasm at work

 

[Mussels]

BIOS is updated to latest with no change in behaviour.



You're quite right; I did not list full specs. Would you allow an edit to OP so I can add?

Ryzen 5600G
ASUS B450M-A II
Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3200 2 x 8 GB @ JEDEC 2666
EVGA GTX 1070 ti SC / Intel ARC A750
PNY CS1030 250GB
WD10EZEX
EVGA 550 G3

View attachment 295993

That SoC voltage is quite low, according to a quick google search they're known for sagging a fair bit if the iGPU is used
You're only at 2667 with XMP off - why?

You're on the latest BIOS, so i'd load optimised defaults, enable XMP and set VSOC to 1.0v. 1.10v is extremely safe, so 1.0v is conservative for sure.
This just helps prevent any infinity fabric dropouts, which shouldnt happen anyway with 2x8SR at 3200.
With that working right, you need to get CSM disabled and UEFI only booting with your OS, and then try rebar again - the 1070 won't support rebar, but will support UEFI and allow rebar to work on "auto"

The Nvidia, AMD and Intel drivers should all happily coexist on the same PC without issues - just avoid extras like geforce experience and keep it driver only, don't stress about uninstalling those as you go.


21H2 may be part of the problem as there have definitely been major changes to the graphics systems in windows 10 and 11 in the 22H2 updates - the intel drivers may not work right with the older OS version

 

[dgianstefani]

BIOS is updated to latest with no change in behaviour.



You're quite right; I did not list full specs. Would you allow an edit to OP so I can add?

Ryzen 5600G
ASUS B450M-A II
Crucial Ballistix DDR4-3200 2 x 8 GB @ JEDEC 2666
EVGA GTX 1070 ti SC / Intel ARC A750
PNY CS1030 250GB
WD10EZEX
EVGA 550 G3

View attachment 295993

Why are you running your ram at JEDEC?

 

[80-watt Hamster]

That SoC voltage is quite low, according to a quick google search they're known for sagging a fair bit if the iGPU is used

This is my first Ryzen chip, and I'm no CPU expert in general, so have been simply running BIOS defaults.

You're only at 2667 with XMP off - why?

Why are you running your ram at JEDEC?

Reduction of confounding variables. Unless there's some manner in which running 3200 can help in a way other than simply "faster", I'd prefer to leave at default until everything works.

You're on the latest BIOS, so i'd load optimised defaults, enable XMP and set VSOC to 1.0v. 1.10v is extremely safe, so 1.0v is conservative for sure.
This just helps prevent any infinity fabric dropouts, which shouldnt happen anyway with 2x8SR at 3200.
With that working right, you need to get CSM disabled and UEFI only booting with your OS, and then try rebar again - the 1070 won't support rebar, but will support UEFI and allow rebar to work on "auto"

The Nvidia, AMD and Intel drivers should all happily coexist on the same PC without issues - just avoid extras like geforce experience and keep it driver only, don't stress about uninstalling those as you go.

21H2 may be part of the problem as there have definitely been major changes to the graphics systems in windows 10 and 11 in the 22H2 updates - the intel drivers may not work right with the older OS version

I'll give the above a shot, but not perhaps until June. It's a busy time of year for me.

 

[Mussels]

Intel Graphics Releases Arc GPU Graphics Drivers 101.4369 WHQL | TechPowerUp
new drivers came out today, too

The ram at XMP isn't about speed but stability - your rams not certified to be stable at jedec timings and voltages. A lot of RAM needs those XMP/EXPO timings and voltages to work, period. You can lower the speed after applying XMP to prevent the frequency being an issue on the IMC.


On ryzen, various RAM features like GDM dont activate below 2667 so you miss out on stability features.
You also slow the entire system down massively since those APU models have less cache, so they're FAR more sensitive to slow RAM than the higher model CPUs - the exact opposite of the 3D chips.
It wont cause major issues, but it can certainly hurt 0.1% low FPS and introduce stuttering, for example.

As the RAM speed increases, Infinity fabric goes with it - SoC voltage increases the voltage of that link. The only reason i'm suggesting you raise yours is because it's defaulted very low, perhaps enabling XMP would natively raise it to 0.95v which is more standard.

When the IF drops out, you get device disconnects - USB, SATA, PCI-E... and that can show up as a system crash or as a driver crash, such as a GPU driver crashing out

 

[AusWolf]

Intel Graphics Releases Arc GPU Graphics Drivers 101.4369 WHQL | TechPowerUp
new drivers came out today, too

The ram at XMP isn't about speed but stability - your rams not certified to be stable at jedec timings and voltages. A lot of RAM needs those XMP/EXPO timings and voltages to work, period. You can lower the speed after applying XMP to prevent the frequency being an issue on the IMC.


On ryzen, various RAM features like GDM dont activate below 2667 so you miss out on stability features.
You also slow the entire system down massively since those APU models have less cache, so they're FAR more sensitive to slow RAM than the higher model CPUs - the exact opposite of the 3D chips.
It wont cause major issues, but it can certainly hurt 0.1% low FPS and introduce stuttering, for example.

As the RAM speed increases, Infinity fabric goes with it - SoC voltage increases the voltage of that link. The only reason i'm suggesting you raise yours is because it's defaulted very low, perhaps enabling XMP would natively raise it to 0.95v which is more standard.

When the IF drops out, you get device disconnects - USB, SATA, PCI-E... and that can show up as a system crash or as a driver crash, such as a GPU driver crashing out

Courtesy of a friend selling his PC, I might be building a 7th gen Intel system soon. It has 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM support, but every single kit you can buy these days is 2133-2400 MHz JEDEC and 3000+ XMP, which means no chance to run anything else than JEDEC with that system, so we'll see.

 

[Mussels]

Courtesy of a friend selling his PC, I might be building a 7th gen Intel system soon. It has 2400 MHz DDR4 RAM support, but every single kit you can buy these days is 2133-2400 MHz JEDEC and 3000+ XMP, which means no chance to run anything else than JEDEC with that system, so we'll see.

Motherboard is the limit on 6 and 7, i've got a 6700 stuck on 2133 because of that


XMP is great on the AMD platforms, it's just that it cant adjust SoC voltage
Almost all of ryzens history of RAM issues boils down to needing SoC voltage raised slightly, and that GDM doesnt automatically enable under 2667

 

[Blitzkuchen]

Day one kill Nvidia drivers with DDU,
Day one install Intel Driver center,
Day one play any Game u want.


On Linux nearly the same, oh wait Intel drivers are Open Source not Closed Source like Nvidia ones.