New Microsoft Weather App Windows 11 is way off in weather forecasting

[P4-630]

The new Microsoft Weather App Windows 11 is way off in weather forecasting.

It doesn't matter if I enter my city manually or when I use location.

If I check my location where it thinks where I live on the map in the app, it appears I would live on a boat in the water, a spot 50km from where I live.....

The app is useless for now, since it got updated a week ago or so...

 

[Bill_Bright]

Odd. Mine is spot on. I have always had a little side interest in meteorology so I have a little weather station in my yard. It says the temp right now is 67.6°F and 79% humidity. The major Air Force base less than 1 mile away currently says 69°F and 83%. The weather app on my W11 laptop reports my town and says 69° and 80%.

So not sure you can blame Microsoft for this one.

Not sure this matters in your case, but how do you connect to your network? If by Ethernet, your location is determined by your POP (point of presence). The POP is where your ISP connects you to the internet. In my case, that is 8 miles away and across town. That makes a big difference because I live very close to the Missouri river, near the lowest point in the area. My POP is about 6 miles from the river and at a significantly higher elevation.

If you connect via wifi, most wifi systems go by your geo-location which should be right in your neighborhood.

You can see where the internet thinks you are physically located by going to Google Maps and clicking on the "Your location" icon in the lower right. Then look for the blue dot (you may need to allow Maps to use your location).

You are not using a proxy, are you?

 

[P4-630]

If you connect via wifi, most wifi systems go by your geo-location which should be right in your neighborhood.

You can see where the internet thinks you are physically located by going to Google Maps and clicking on the "Your location" icon in the lower right.

You are not using a proxy, are you?

Yes I'm connected by wifi at my home, my own network though.

When I open google maps it opens with my city as default but I don't use "Location" and other location settings in windows.
(tried it for the weather app, but it didn't change)

No, not using a proxy.

I usually type in my location manually when I need to use it in an app which has always worked fine.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yes I'm connected by wifi at my home, my own network though.

Not sure what you mean by your own network. Anything on your side of the gateway device (typically the modem) is your own network (unless you have a room in someone else's home, dorm, etc. and use their network).

...but I don't use "Location" and other location settings in windows.

That's not what I was referring to.

In Google Maps, in the lower right, you should see a small target icon. See: this image. Click that.

If needed, you may be prompted by Google Maps (not Windows) to show your location. If not needed, you will not be prompted. Then look for the blue dot. That will either be your near exact location, or your POP.

 

[P4-630]

Not sure what you mean by your own network. Anything on your side of the gateway device (typically the modem) is your own network (unless you have a room in someone else's home, dorm, etc. and use their network).

I just mean, I'm not on a shared network with other people like neighbors on it, so I call it my own.

That's not what I was referring to.

In Google Maps, in the lower right, you should see a small target icon. See: this image. Click that.

If needed, you may be prompted by Google Maps (not Windows) to show your location. If not needed, you will not be prompted. Then look for the blue dot. That will either be your near exact location, or your POP.

BTW it doesn't matter if I have location options on or off in settings.

When I just manually type a City name in the weather app or in any other app, it just should use that!
Which always worked for me.

 

[Bill_Bright]

When you saw that Google Maps does not have permission, there also should be a little pop-up prompt somewhere else on your screen asking for permission.

Either way, for your case, if you see your city and the weather information is not correct, then I don't see how it could be Microsoft Weather's fault. It just reports what it is told.

 

[P4-630]

It shows this location on the weather app map where I live, even though I just typed in my city manually and it saved it.

Never had any issues with location of the MS weather app, it's just messed up after the update a week ago or so.


Edit: just checked my location in google maps, it's off, but not as much as the weather app...


If the weather forecast and temperatures where correct for my City, I wouldn't mind.

 

[Bill_Bright]

You image tells me nothing because I don't know where you live.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you. Mine works, yours doesn't. That's not enough information to determine fault.

 

[P4-630]

@Bill_Bright

Example, I typed in City center of "Amsterdam", this is what I get:

In the app it says 11 degrees C in Amsterdam, while you can see the City Amsterdam right above in the map and it says 16 degrees C.....

 

[Bill_Bright]

4 degrees difference could easily be realistic. The main airport for my areas is just 10 miles north of me. They currently are sitting at 73°F while at my house, it is 79°.

 

[P4-630]

4 degrees difference could easily be realistic. The main airport for my areas is just 10 miles north of me. They currently are sitting at 73°F while at my house, it is 79°.

The difference in the Amsterdam example is 5 degrees C , that's quite a difference in Celsius...

 

[Bill_Bright]

Not really. I understand Celsius is different from Fahrenheit. But using my real-world example above, 73°F is 22.78°C and 79°F is 25.56°C. That is less than 3°C difference - easily explain by elevation, wind patterns, distance between sampling locations, time of sample, and other terrain elements. Even a delta of 5°C is not beyond real-world possibilities.

The sun popping out of the clouds for just one minute can easily change the temperature at that sampling location a few degrees.

There just is not enough evidence to (1) indicate there is a problem and (2) to assign blame anywhere.

We need more samples, examples - evidence.

 

[P4-630]

You may not understand what I'm talking about it seems....

On the little map above with Amsterdam on it, I entered "Amsterdam" in the weather app, as you can see the yellow/white location dot is way off, but according to the weather app there's Amsterdam at the dot, left under on the map and where that dot is it says 11 degrees C, so the app said it was 11 degrees C in Amsterdam at that time, which is bull ofcourse, because the location with that temperature is nowhere near Amsterdam as you can see....
While you can see "Amsterdam" in the top right of that little map and it was actually 16 degrees C measured at the correct "Amsterdam" location.

And yeah , you will know and feel the difference when it's 15 degrees Celsius or 20 degrees Celsius outside.... At least I feel the difference...


See where the app thinks (the dot) where new york is on the map:

 

[Bill_Bright]

Microsoft is not a weather organization, or cartographer. This means they outsource their data from 3rd party suppliers. All I can tell you is the app works fine for me in my town here in Nebraska. I recommend you go to W11's search, enter "Feedback Hub" and open a ticket and see what happens.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[cvaldes]

A 5 degrees Celsius temperature difference is very significant, not just a "margin of error" thing. That's bad data. It could be a faulty sensor from the weather monitoring station, a data parsing error, some sort of corruption, it could be something else.

If the information is really critical, a better practice would be to corroborate using multiple sources of data. Having used online weather services for nearly three decades, I've see my share of bogus readings whether it come from a government agency (NOAA/NWS) or a private weather data service. And sometimes instruments fail.

 

[Bill_Bright]

A 5 degrees Celsius temperature difference is very significant, not just a "margin of error" thing. That's bad data.

Now wait! You (everyone) need to be much more specific. Depending on those specifics, 5°C difference could be very significant, or not significant at all!

It is critical for everyone to understand that there typically are dozens (if not hundreds!) of weather monitoring stations in big metropolitan areas. I know for a fact there are over 30 in my metro area and the Amsterdam metro area is twice the size than here.

Every TV station that has their own weather team will have one. Every airport will. Many high schools, city halls, fire stations, hospitals (with heliports), military installations, colleges, volunteer weather observers and more all report weather. Weatherbug, Wundermap, NOAH, NWS, FAA and more gather and use that information to provide reporting services. And Microsoft, Google, your browser, your cable company might all get their weather from a different source and sensor.

In many areas, you can even sign up to get alerts on your cell for your specific neighborhood and/or current location. We do this here to keep track of the path of tornados since I live in Tornado Alley.

My point is, in just a 10 mile radius from your home, for example, there could be 3, 4 or more sensors, all reporting weather data to some service. That is why I said above 4 or 5° could easily be realistic "IF" looking at different sensors several (even just a couple) miles apart - this is especially true when different elevations are involved.

Now "IF" you are reading the same sensor, then you should be getting the exact same reading.

I think what the OP is seeing here is a discrepancy between the GPS location readings and how they correspond with local (or not so local) weather.

***

BTW, I am currently looking at the Weather app on my W11 laptop and this W10 PC. And while the layout of the app is slightly different, all the weather information is exactly the same. That is the temp, wind speed and direction, feels like, barometer, humidity, dew point, etc. are exactly the same. My point here is I don't believe the app in W11 is significantly different than W10s.

@cvaldes - if you pull up the Weather app on one of your Windows systems, does it appear to be correct for your area? How does it compare to your Mac weather?

***

BTW, in my area, the National Weather Service's "official" weather station for the Omaha area is not even at the main airport. Instead it is in Valley 30 miles east of the airport and 35 miles north east of my house.

 

[cvaldes]

Look, 5 degrees Celsius is very significant when talking about the weather and human comfort. Maybe less so for your GPU hotspot, but much more so for Homo sapiens.

25°C = 70°F
30°C = 86°F

Do you think your mom would notice the temperature difference in your living room between the two? Or taking a stroll through downtown?

You're Mister Computer Guy, you probably only think about GPUs or CPU temperatures. "Oh, 5 deg C isn't a big deal. Just run the fans a little faster."

Looking at my various devices (Mac, Windows PC, iOS), I see readings of 71°F, 72°F and 74°F for my town. If I fire up a couple other iOS apps, there might be slight differences. I know all of these apps use different weather sources (NOAA/NWS versus third-party data providers). Moreover some services (like Weather Underground) have multiple monitoring stations in my city, and if I let my phone give up precise location, it should provide a reading from a local monitoring station.

There are definitely microclimates in my town which is on the San Francisco Bay. So a 5 degree Fahrenheit spread between various monitoring stations in town is quite plausible. The temperature at the fire station closest to City Hall is going to be different than a weather station on the bay. Same with windspeed.

San Francisco is notorious for having very different microclimates. It could be chilly/foggy at the beach and sunny/warmer at the ballpark. So, just looking up the weather for "your town" isn't something you can mindlessly accept.

At least in my part of the world. Same if I visit Tokyo or Sydney or Rome. Admittedly I have zero experience with Nebraska weather so I defer to you on that regard.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Look, 5 degrees Celsius is very significant when talking about the weather and human comfort.

Look! Nobody is talking about the "weather and human comfort". This topic has absolutely nothing to do with how comfortable we feel, or the temps of our computer hardware!

This thread is about accurate reporting of the temperature at weather recording stations and their reported physical locations, regardless if -20° or +120° outside.

Therefore, the entire rest of you post is irrelevant and totally off-topic!

So let's get back to the OP's issue, okay?

 

[P4-630]

Therefore, the entire rest of you post is irrelevant and totally off-topic!

So let's get back to the OP's issue, okay?

It was on-topic because I was getting wrong temperatures for my City...

 

[cvaldes]

It was on-topic because I was getting wrong temperatures for my City...

Absolutely.

You aren't getting accurate forecasts for your city and that guy says that 5 degrees Celsius isn't a big deal.

It *IS* a big deal, that amount of error makes a big difference for those who count on online weather reporting services to provide accurate data.

Some people just like to twist and convolute topics to show off whatever technical knowledge they claim to have and ignore the basic subject.

This is the Internet in 2023. Enjoy.

Anyhow, back to your topic. Report the data discrepancy to the service provider and use this as a lesson to not rely on one single data source. Even if Microsoft isn't the weather prediction service, they need to select partners that provide useful information to Microsoft users. It's egg on Microsoft's face when the forecast is so heavily bungled.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It was on-topic because I was getting wrong temperatures for my City...

It was not on-topic because your post is about that program, as you just noted, possibly reporting an incorrect sensor reading or incorrect sensor location. It has nothing to do with how a difference in temperature "feels" on the human body.

Nobody, especially not me, is suggesting we cannot "feel" a 5°C change in temperature. In fact, humans can sense a change of just 1°F.

It is clear neither of you understand how weather information in large metropolitan areas is collected. That is NOT a criticism, just an observation.

As a technician in the Air Force, I have maintained various weather monitoring and reporting systems. I have tried to explain that there are potentially dozens of monitoring stations in large metro areas, with many several miles apart (and at different elevations) that could easily report several degrees difference.

One station might be under a cloud. Another in direct sunlight.

Have you never felt a front move through?

Unless you know exactly which station your program is getting its information from, you seeing a difference of 5°C could easily be due simply to different monitoring stations reporting different, but still accurate for THAT specific location, temperatures.

***

Now if you, as the OP, want to change the topic to how temperature changes "feel" on our bodies, then it's your thread!

 

[the54thvoid]

The issue is the apparent misreporting of geolocation. The temp is secondary. FWIW, Bill is right, you'll see variances of a few degrees C across a metropolitan area, especially when it's coastal. That Amsterdam map shows concrete conurbations and the open ocean. That'll give several degrees temp difference.

However, the point is (and please, stick to it) - why is P4 not getting his geolocation mapped correctly, and what is causing it.

 

[cvaldes]

However, the point is (and please, stick to it) - why is P4 not getting his geolocation mapped correctly, and what is causing it.

This makes zero sense.

How would he know why his geolocation data isn't resulting in accurate weather data?

Whether it's his computer or his smartphone, he doesn't really have control of how the location telemetry is processed. All he does is suffer from bad results.

If I get bad driving directions from Google Maps, Apple Maps, Waze, TomTom, whatever, it's not really my fault. And why should I spend any time trying to figure out why it's broken? That's the service provider's responsibility. They have logs and raw telemetry.

I know from personal experience about bad location data. Years ago I worked at a place that had a public facility. We put driving directions on our website and specifically instructed visitors to follow our written directions because several GPS navi tools at the time gave erroneous instructions (like turning into dead end streets or private roads). We couldn't fix that erroneous data. Over time, those services fixed their data but there was nothing we could do even after ongoing multiple error reports (not just from employees but also from visitors).

And they have the solution(s) to the problem. It's not like holding your notebook PC upside down will fix the issue. And if it were, I'd say that would be something the hardware manufacturer would need to address.

Again, OP needs to report the error to Microsoft and tell them to fix it. These companies collect plenty of data. P4-630 should not need to spend any more time figuring out what went wrong and how to fix it because this is not a user serviceable function. It's not like he's manually typing in coordinates into a web site and fat fingered longitude or latitude.

Once OP has reported the error, all he can do is use a more accurate service and wait for Microsoft fix it. Whether it's a problem on Microsoft's side or the weather prediction service's side is immaterial to P4-630. It's on Microsoft to ultimately resolve the problem since they are the customer-facing vendor.

If I run a coffee shop and customers report leaky sugar packets, I don't expect them to research why the packets are leaking. It's up to me (the cafe owner) to get non-leaky sugar packets in my guests' hands. Whether it's the sugar company, the restaurant supply delivery service, my employees, none of that really matters to the little old lady who has a leaky sugar packet. Do I tell her to find out what's wrong? According to some people in this discussion, apparently yes.

It's totally bizarre that I need to explain all of this. One would think the people at at technology site would understand these basics in 2023.

 

[natr0n]

After so many years. I know the weather so well I just look up at the sky. If the house goes dim gonna rain.

 

[cvaldes]

After so many years. I know the weather so well I just look up at the sky. If the house goes dim gonna rain.

Me too. But sometimes I want to know I can expect in the future because the weather can affect plans.

If the weather prediction service can't get current weather conditions right, why would I have any faith that their predictions would be true?

And sometimes accurate weather data is really important (airlines, cruise lines, etc.) for the safety of travellers.