AMD Ryzen 8000 "Granite Ridge" Zen 5 Processor to Max Out at 16 Cores

[ValenOne]

More of the same again, AMD? AMD needs to launch new things, come up with new ideas, it needs to get rid of old thoughts, old ideas, to be able to sell its chips well.

AMD has made a number of blunders in recent years:
- didn't put RDNA1 iGPU in their latest APUs (kept insisting with old, inefficient and power hungry VEGA iGPUs until Ryzen 5000G)
- did not put support for DDR4 memory on Ryzen 7000
- did not put AV1 encoder on the iGPU of Ryzen 7000
- made the recent GPUs of RDNA3 cards in MCM scheme, which greatly increased the latencies and, thus, decreased the performance and, therefore, AMD had to increase the clock and consequently the electrical consumption of these GPUs so that they have competitive performance.

AMD needs to break old thinking and do at least the obvious:

- AMD must "sit down" with software developers (from HandBrake, Avidemux, Adobe, Cyberlink, MAGIX, Blackmagic Design, Apple, etc.) to get its video encoder (from their GPUs and iGPUs) to do the video conversion (in H.264, H.265 and AV1 codecs) in 2 steps. The first major chipmaker (Intel, AMD, Nvidia) to do this will sell chips like water in the desert...
- AMD's video encoder must achieve the same image quality as Nvidia's video encoder.
- Make only single-die GPUs so they have lower latencies and, thus, higher performance.
- All AM5 motherboards had to support BIOS update without the CPU in the socket. So people could buy AM5 motherboards without worrying about having to go through the hassle of building a PC and it not turning on because the motherboard's BIOS doesn't recognize the CPU.
- Need to launch single-die Ryzen CPUs (SoC) so they have higher performance. To launch CPUs with more than 8 cores, it would be enough to put chiplets together, as it already does today.

The current desktop Ryzen 7000 series IO chip is based on a 6 nm process node which contains RDNA 2 IGP (with 2 CU scale) and DDR5 like on 6 nm based Van Gogh APU (SteamDeck, RDNA 2 IGP with 8 CU scale and LPDDR5).

Video editing needs higher memory bandwidth and you argued for DDR4? DDR4 support is not important for AM5.

AMD backported RDNA 3 design on a 6 nm process node with the RX 7600.

RX 7900 XT/ XTX's GPU chip uses the 5 nm process node.

AMD's Phoenix APU uses the 4 nm process node which can support faster LPDDR5-7500 and RDNA 3 IGP. The tech for the IO chip upgrade is available from the Phoenix APU design.

RX 7900 XTX's TMU and TFLOPS are about AD103 level with ROPS being at AD102 level. Don't expect miracles.

 

[Mussels]

I am expecting E-core to be slower than P-core, but also I am expecting E-core to be alteast(!) equal or less power hungry than P-core, sooon Intel will achieve it, but until then, E-cores are lame.

And my complain was more about the "naming" of cpu, when they call it 12Cores, and not 8P/4E

I'm agreeing with you - the name is a misleading start, and then calling them 12/16/20 whatever cores is very misleading when they arent equal.
AMD got blasted years ago for this with the FX CPU's and "misleading" core counts, yet intel can do it and its a positive.

They overclocked those E-cores far past their efficiency curve, and it ruined them.

 

[Pepamami]

And how will that work? They're made for DDR4, IF is also probably not compatible(?) & they don't have PCIe 5.0 although that's not much to lose. IF is one of major reasons IMO they can't go back to older cores otherwise they'd be selling lots of them right now!

DDR4, PCI-E 4.0 and bunch of USB is a part of cIOD not CCD, and they actually sell them a lot right now, in Threadrippers, Laptop CPUs. Also AM4 still supported, and people still buying 5800X3D and other zen3 cpus

 

[R0H1T]

You missed the biggest one ~ Infinity fabric, how are you going to make that work with zen3/4 or any other combinations?

 

[Mussels]

You missed the biggest one ~ Infinity fabric, how are you going to make that work with zen3/4 or any other combinations?

That's the part that has to be socket/generation specific.
The IF/IO Die has to be per-socket/memory type, and then they can use the IF link to whatever CCX dies they want to attach.


They could make an AM4 refresh with a new IO Die that's DDR4 specific and as compatible as possible with the existing one (same default max RAM speeds, default IF clocks, even if it potentially overclocks better) and mix in standard cores with newer ones.

On AM5 they just need to release a 8000 series CPU with one 8000x3D chipset and a 7000 series non-3D as the E-cores. Put in a somewhat conservative limit to keep them in the efficiency curve insteaf of the balls to the wall approach and you'd have 8 world-class gaming cores and upto 16 workhorse cores that are powerful and efficient at the same time, instead of being the mess E-cores presently are.

 

[Pepamami]

You missed the biggest one ~ Infinity fabric, how are you going to make that work with zen3/4 or any other combinations?

zen3 fabric can work on 2000mhz with no problems, with higher clocks (like 3000Mhz for 6000Mhz DDR5), amd can probably make it 1:2 for zen3, while zen4 CCD will work on 3000mhz, and zen3 ccd will go to 1500mhz fabric.
But its only an example, but I think its possible to get some "cheap" cores this way, with modified zen3 (on 7nm CCD)

 

[Nhonho]

The current desktop Ryzen 7000 series IO chip is based on a 6 nm process node which contains RDNA 2 IGP (with 2 CU scale) and DDR5 like on 6 nm based Van Gogh APU (SteamDeck, RDNA 2 IGP with 8 CU scale and LPDDR5).

Video editing needs higher memory bandwidth and you argued for DDR4? DDR4 support is not important for AM5.

AMD backported RDNA 3 design on a 6 nm process node with the RX 7600.

RX 7900 XT/ XTX's GPU chip uses the 5 nm process node.

AMD's Phoenix APU uses the 4 nm process node which can support faster LPDDR5-7500 and RDNA 3 IGP. The tech for the IO chip upgrade is available from the Phoenix APU design.

RX 7900 XTX's TMU and TFLOPS are about AD103 level with ROPS being at AD102 level. Don't expect miracles.

That's job of AMD engineers. They should have done everything I said.

 

[Mussels]

That's job of AMD engineers. They should have done everything I said.

Your list was a lovely fantasy for what you want, but quite unrelated to reality.

AMD should release a CPU with 512 cores that all support AVX-1024 and use 65W of power peak, while each core has 128TB of L1 cache and supports EDO-RAM through GDDR6x and HBM2, and can use intel CPU's as drop in co-processors!


Theories are lovely. Wishes are lovely.
That doesn't mean they're remotely plausible, and some of your list would have added costs, complexity or caused bigger problems than they solved.

 

[Nhonho]

Your list was a lovely fantasy for what you want, but quite unrelated to reality.

AMD should release a CPU with 512 cores that all support AVX-1024 and use 65W of power peak, while each core has 128TB of L1 cache and supports EDO-RAM through GDDR6x and HBM2, and can use intel CPU's as drop in co-processors!


Theories are lovely. Wishes are lovely.
That doesn't mean they're remotely plausible, and some of your list would have added costs, complexity or caused bigger problems than they solved.

None of that. I was realistic in my previous post. As I said, AMD has to do everything I've written to get out of the quagmire.

AMD "fights" on two fronts... Competing with Nvidia and Intel is not easy at all. They from AMD need to work very hard, launch not obvious things.

AMD nesds to do ''more of the same'', needs to do new things, have new thoughts, break old paradigms..

 

[Mussels]

And you "need to" realize your ideas are pure fantasy

You cant sit there and come up with a list of things you'd totally have done better - it's fiction. You wrote a story of what you imagined, but then you're telling everyone that AMD are 'wrong' for not following your made up directives.


I'm not sure if you're young or just out of touch with how these things work.

 

[AusWolf]

None of that. I was realistic in my previous post. As I said, AMD has to do everything I've written to get out of the quagmire.

AMD "fights" on two fronts... Competing with Nvidia and Intel is not easy at all. They from AMD need to work very hard, launch not obvious things.

AMD nesds to do ''more of the same'', needs to do new things, have new thoughts, break old paradigms..

What prevents you from applying for a job at AMD and making your dream a reality?

 

[Bronan]

Fantastic topic and fun to read that people still claim games need more than 8 cores
Apperently nobody looks really how many cores a game really uses
The last part is a nice fantasy for the year 9524 as for the coming 10 years all cpu with more than 8 cores are kinda overkill for gaming
As more cores are only used if and only if your using heavy tasks like Video editing and CAD/CAM tasks
No do not answer if you disagree because i will not respond ever to nonsense
I got many gamer friends who asked me to build their game pc and they all are happy that i build it for them
The only important thing for gaming is the GPU some play games who are demanding and end up with the most expenssive GPU's from both competitors in the high performance sections but some are very very happy with my choice to put in a Intel card which actually are becoming very good cards for most players who are less demanding hardware wise.
So people come of your high horses and start looking at what you really need instead of putting your bragging needs as being reality.
Yes i have had people who wanted more and bought the most expenssive stuff and still hardly ever use it besides typing in "word and excel" which needs 2048 cores and 4096 GB of ram to mention some of the idiots that claim they need it, because they forget that a good IT man finds quickly what they actually really need , which is not bragging about something you REALLY never need

 

[Nhonho]

And you "need to" realize your ideas are pure fantasy

You cant sit there and come up with a list of things you'd totally have done better - it's fiction. You wrote a story of what you imagined, but then you're telling everyone that AMD are 'wrong' for not following your made up directives.


I'm not sure if you're young or just out of touch with how these things work.

Nvidia does exactly what I wrote above and that's why it is the leader in AI in the world and has already surpassed AMD in size and revenue.

For those who don't know, AMD was much bigger than Nvidia in revenue, but, a few years ago, Nvidia became much bigger than AMD, and it wasn't with a conservative, outdated management.

 

[AusWolf]

Nvidia does exactly what I wrote above and that's why it is the leader in AI in the world and has already surpassed AMD in size and revenue.

For those who don't know, AMD was much bigger than Nvidia in revenue, but, a few years ago, Nvidia became much bigger than AMD, and it wasn't with a conservative, outdated management.

Where did this obsession with being bigger than the competition come from? Aren't minimising costs and maximising profits the main goals of every company, which have nothing to do with being bigger?

 

[R0H1T]

For those who don't know, AMD was much bigger than Nvidia in revenue, but, a few years ago,

For those who don't know ~ it was a long long time back! Pre *Dozer in case you don't remember.

 

[bug]

Where did this obsession with being bigger than the competition come from? Aren't minimising costs and maximising profits the main goals of every company, which have nothing to do with being bigger?

It's called market cap. Has been used to size up companies for ages.

 

[AusWolf]

It's called market cap. Has been used to size up companies for ages.

That's just a glorified penis measuring contest for corporations. Not their bread and butter.

 

[Bronan]

LoL i do not not need more than 8 cores, as a gamer junky more than 8 cores is useless garbage into a cpu.
No do not answer anything other as i will not respond nor believe anything which says otherwise.
Non of my system with 8/16 cores/threads which i owned showed ANY real usage on the so called more than 8 threads nothing at all, i do not count some system calls on one for a millisecond a real load.
Most games never show more than 4 to 6 cores really doing any REAL work, as almost all work is done by the gpu.
Every game i tested/played fantastic and funny enough the core speed actually never reach the so called 5 Ghz they are capable off it simply hovers around 4.5 up to 4.8 Ghz
I actually sold my 32 core machine to a video editing junk who was happy with it
So i hate it that AMD made the 32 core run faster than its smaller siblings as that is the real reason why these simply am faster in some games.
But AMD and Intel preffer to sell multi core nonsense to gamers as that makes more income for them.
The lower clocked 7800 X3D showed clearly that for gaming that is enough that the big gun uses a much higher clockspeed proves that a way too much core cpu needs a much higher clock speed to get almost the same result.
Do not talk about the VR nonsense as that will never be my cup of tea in the years i have left

 

[Mussels]

LoL i do not not need more than 8 cores, as a gamer junky more than 8 cores is useless garbage into a cpu.
No do not answer anything other as i will not respond nor believe anything which says otherwise.
Non of my system with 8/16 cores/threads which i owned showed ANY real usage on the so called more than 8 threads nothing at all, i do not count some system calls on one for a millisecond a real load.
Most games never show more than 4 to 6 cores really doing any REAL work, as almost all work is done by the gpu.
Every game i tested/played fantastic and funny enough the core speed actually never reach the so called 5 Ghz they are capable off it simply hovers around 4.5 up to 4.8 Ghz
I actually sold my 32 core machine to a video editing junk who was happy with it
So i hate it that AMD made the 32 core run faster than its smaller siblings as that is the real reason why these simply am faster in some games.
But AMD and Intel preffer to sell multi core nonsense to gamers as that makes more income for them.
The lower clocked 7800 X3D showed clearly that for gaming that is enough that the big gun uses a much higher clockspeed proves that a way too much core cpu needs a much higher clock speed to get almost the same result.
Do not talk about the VR nonsense as that will never be my cup of tea in the years i have left

I've never seen more than 6, and most of them are lightly used. Any excess is from the OS/background tasks.

usually the 1-2 threads for the 3D rendering get maxed out, then possibly one for AI, one for world generating (in games like minecraft) and beyond that you get low usage tasks for audio, networking, anti cheat etc

x3D chips cache the results - so if the game/task is asking the same math questions over and over, it has the result already and skips the work - lower cache chips do the entire task again every time.

 

[Bronan]

Indeed the perfect answer i should have given to the ever lasting idea that people need 2048 core cpu's
LoL