EU Approves New Regulation for Smartphone Batteries - Must be User-Replaceable by 2027

[lexluthermiester]

If someone thinks having more consumer freedom is a bad thing, then they're either delusional, or hold too many shares in Apple.

This. My vote is for the first option.

 

[Deleted member 231663]

So having only one example is perfectly fine as long as it's yours, but it's not enough when it's someone else's. Right.

Any amount of examples is arbitrary. What about two examples? I've now increased the amount by 100%, or what about another 10 examples on top of that? Arbitrary.

Corporations have a choice in a free market. Choice to make their products shit, so that I'll have to buy it again and again.

No one is forcing you to buy a smartphone.

Have you ever owned a phone with a changeable battery? Do you have any idea how effortless the process is?

Edit: I've just timed how long it takes to do a battery swap on my Sony Ericsson Xperia Mini Pro, including taking off the back panel, taking the battery out, putting it back in, and replacing the back panel. Guess what? 11 seconds.

I have but your original point was "device" not "smartphone", thusly your point here is moot.

"Under section 571.216 of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, all covered vehicles must be tested for roof structure integrity. In such a test, the left and right sides of the roof must each be able to handle 1.5 times the weight of the unloaded vehicle." - written by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), Department of Transportation. That is, politicians. US politicians.

Correct, politicians who take part in government are responsible for drafting and mandating legislation, it's their job. They take data presented to them by representatives of said industry then proceed to their cabinet and legal team to draft a bill proposal. You think Senate and House reps are doing the testing themselves? LOLOL

Except for 99% of consumers, myself included, don't care enough to boycott smartphones over the issue of battery changes. I'm just happy for the new regulation.

Sheeple is the term, those who talk the talk but never walk the walk. 99% of consumers dont care enough for replaceable batteries either, that's why it doesnt exist currently as a product.

You're free to believe in whatever you want. I believe in customer rights and the common good. I also believe that a completely free market ends up with the total exploitation of the consumer. I also believe that this is Europe, and if our politicians decide to make some law to curb corporate greed for the interest of common European people, then they're damn f**king right to do so! I only wish they did it a bit more often.

Wrong. In a free market the consumer holds all the power. Government intervention creates artificial winners and losers.

Then don't comment on it.

I dont care that you dont care about me not caring, see how opinions work?

Yes it is. So what?

As long as you realize what you're saying is opinion then that's all that matters.

If it's fairly obvious, then why is it a problem? Why are you so butthurt by the fact that you will have more chance to maintain your phone and keep it longer if you want to?

It's not a problem and that's the point, its a non issue for a super majority of people. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill when I'm telling you that if replaceable batteries we're such a major consumer demand they would have existed by now. Most people who earn enough money to own a smartphone and cell contract have no issue paying money to have their battery replaced by a tech, so once again, the line in the sand you're drawing, nobody cares about.

No, it's not. The ability to replace your battery will make phone maintenance easier for you as well. If you don't want to live with this option, you're still free to throw your phone away whenever you feel like.

Once again, that's your opinion that is not backed by any real world empirical data. What you perceive to be "easier" only applies to your own sensibilities.

Not the latter, or they wouldn't advocate Apple chopping off at least $30 Billion a year of revenue just to prove a point.

Apple's market cap is 3 trillion dollars. $30 billion is 3% of that LOL

 

[AusWolf]

I have but your original point was "device" not "smartphone", thusly your point here is moot.

Because changing batteries in your TV remote is so fundamentally different than changing the battery in my old phone. Obviously!

Correct, politicians who take part in government are responsible for drafting and mandating legislation, it's their job. They take data presented to them by representatives of said industry then proceed to their cabinet and legal team to draft a bill proposal. You think Senate and House reps are doing the testing themselves? LOLOL

Who said politicians were doing the testing? What I said is, there are products (for example, cars) that manufacturers are forced to make in a way that they conform to legislation that (US) politicians wrote. Even your beloved free US market isn't 100% free.

Wrong. In a free market the consumer holds all the power. Government intervention creates artificial winners and losers.

And I'm sheep... right... If I'm the artificial winner, and phone manufacturers are the artificial losers (not that they lose much), then who am I to complain?

It's not a problem and that's the point, its a non issue for a super majority of people. You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill when I'm telling you that if replaceable batteries we're such a major consumer demand they would have existed by now. Most people who earn enough money to own a smartphone and cell contract have no issue paying money to have their battery replaced by a tech, so once again, the line in the sand you're drawing, nobody cares about.

Guess what, I also have the money to pay for a battery replacement every 3-5 years. But why should I if I could swap it myself?

Once again, that's your opinion that is not backed by any real world empirical data. What you perceive to be "easier" only applies to your own sensibilities.

Are you mad? Taking 11 seconds to replace your battery vs. going to a repair shop, then paying and waiting for work to be done is not enough empirical data to you? Wow. Just wow.

You know what?
You seem to be rejecting every single notion that I present to you with some free market capitalist brainwash, or some random bullshit that's got nothing to do with what I said, so let's leave it at that, okay?

 

[Deleted member 231663]

Because changing batteries in your TV remote is so fundamentally different than changing the battery in my old phone. Obviously!

I dont assume the same process for products that are vastly different, I'm sorry you view a TV remote as having the same level of technical complication as a smartphone.

Who said politicians were doing the testing? What I said is, there are products (for example, cars) that manufacturers are forced to make in a way that they conform to legislation that (US) politicians wrote. Even your beloved free US market isn't 100% free.

Correct when the livelihood of a country's citizens comes into question, legislation gets passed, safety and well being are topics that actually matter and should be handled by government, not the replaceability of batteries in smartphones LOL

Guess what, I also have the money to pay for a battery replacement every 3-5 years. But why should I if I could swap it myself?

Thanks for agreeing! If you can afford replacing a battery in the first place then no laws are needed to mandate it.

Are you mad? Taking 11 seconds to replace your battery vs. going to a repair shop, then paying and waiting for work to be done is not enough empirical data to you? Wow. Just wow.

You have zero empirical data showing that forcing smartphone manufacturers to make their phone's batteries user replaceable improves user experience and/or the phone itself. You are merely focusing on one metric of the overall experience.

You know what?
You seem to be rejecting every single notion that I present to you with some free market capitalist brainwash, or some random bullshit that's got nothing to do with what I said, so let's leave it at that, okay?

That's your opinion and you're entitled to have one.

 

[AusWolf]

I dont assume the same process for products that are vastly different, I'm sorry you view a TV remote as having the same level of technical complication as a smartphone.

No. I view the complication of the battery change process in a TV remote as requiring similar time and level of technical expertise as the battery change process in a smartphone, a mouse, or in any other battery-operated handheld device. I don't give a rat's arse what the said device is, I merely used it as an example. Are we clear now, or do I need to explain myself some more?

Correct when the livelihood of a country's citizens comes into question, legislation gets passed, safety and well being are topics that actually matter and should be handled by government, not the replaceability of batteries in smartphones LOL

That's your opinion.

Thanks for agreeing! If you can afford replacing a battery in the first place then no laws are needed to mandate it.

Can you afford giving me $100 for nothing? If you can, I guess no laws should be made against me taking it.

Point is: Just because you can afford something, it doesn't mean you should. Responding to a technical question with money suggests the kind of sheep mentality that you accused me of earlier.

You have zero empirical data showing that forcing smartphone manufacturers to make their phone's batteries user replaceable improves user experience and/or the phone itself. You are merely focusing on one metric of the overall experience.

Everybody can see the benefit of being able to change their own batteries except for you. Not having to pay 100+ in a phone shop definitely improves my user experience. If it doesn't improve yours, then guess what... you can still go to a shop and pay all that money if you want. Freedom is awesome, isn't it?

If you still don't get it, I guess that's it. I'm out.

 

[Deleted member 231663]

No. I view the complication of the battery change process in a TV remote as requiring similar time and level of technical expertise as the battery change process in a smartphone, a mouse, or in any other battery-operated handheld device. I don't give a rat's arse what the said device is, I merely used it as an example. Are we clear now, or do I need to explain myself some more?

Why would you consider the process at which a battery is incorporated into a device not integral? Based on your logic the same steps are taken for every device even if device A had a million more complications than device B

That's your opinion.

Correct!

Can you afford giving me $100 for nothing? If you can, I guess no laws should be made against me taking it.

Point is: Just because you can afford something, it doesn't mean you should. Responding to a technical question with money suggests the kind of sheep mentality that you accused me of earlier.

Why would I give you $100 for nothing though? If you can afford a smartphone you can afford the repairs that go along with it, if not buy insurance. If you dont want to pay, fine, dont buy one, see how easy this is?

Everybody can see the benefit of being able to change their own batteries except for you. Not having to pay 100+ in a phone shop definitely improves my user experience. If it doesn't improve yours, then guess what... you can still go to a shop and pay all that money if you want. Freedom is awesome, isn't it?

That's your opinion that you're assuming about everyone. You need to realize that not everyone places the same value in the same things as you, as such, what you deem to be important is merely a passing thought to others.

 

[AusWolf]

Why would you consider the process at which a battery is incorporated into a device not integral? Based on your logic the same steps are taken for every device even if device A had a million more complications than device B

It doesn't matter what I consider the battery to be. It also doesn't matter how complicated the device is. What matters is that I can save money and effort in the future by changing the battery myself, just like I used to. Whether this is the result of phone manufacturers being nice to me out of the kindness of their hearts, or a new law coming in in a few years, also doesn't matter. End of.

Why would I give you $100 for nothing though? If you can afford a smartphone you can afford the repairs that go along with it, if not buy insurance. If you dont want to pay, fine, dont buy one, see how easy this is?

That's your opinion that you're assuming about everyone. You need to realize that not everyone places the same value in the same things as you, as such, what you deem to be important is merely a passing thought to others

You know what? Go take your phone to a repair shop and pay hundreds of dollars for a battery swap even after 2027 if it makes you feel better. I won't.

Good luck!

 

[Deleted member 231663]

It doesn't matter what I consider the battery to be. It also doesn't matter how complicated the device is. What matters is that I can save money and effort in the future by changing the battery myself, just like I used to. Whether this is the result of phone manufacturers being nice to me out of the kindness of their hearts, or a new law coming in in a few years, also doesn't matter. End of.

I'm glad that you're being honest with yourself that you do not care about any technical reasoning, baby just wants his battery to pop out easy.

You know what? Go take your phone to a repair shop and pay hundreds of dollars for a battery swap even after 2027 if it makes you feel better. I won't.

Good luck!

Well yeah Apple supports their phones 5+ years so unless I'm trading it in or upgrading of course I'm going to take it to get the battery replaced if it needs it, this is a fairly routine procedure.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I'm glad that you're being honest with yourself that you do not care about any technical reasoning, baby just wants his battery to pop out easy.



Well yeah Apple supports their phones 5+ years so unless I'm trading it in or upgrading of course I'm going to take it to get the battery replaced if it needs it, this is a fairly routine procedure.

We get it, you're an Apple brown-noser. Now go shovel your nonsense elsewhere!

 

[Deleted member 231663]

We get it, you're an Apple brown-noser. Now go shovel your nonsense elsewhere!

Incorrect. Please feel free to tell me what I'm saying is nonsense, otherwise abstain from responding with such superfluous posts

 

[claes]

You bought AppleCare/an extended warranty* and are trolling people about the right to repair. I’ve bought Apple phones since the 4 but gtfo

*that or you don’t understand how limited your warranty is, either way…

 

[AusWolf]

I'm glad that you're being honest with yourself that you do not care about any technical reasoning, baby just wants his battery to pop out easy.

Now you get it! There's no technical reasoning related to the device itself, anyway. We're talking about batteries, not CPUs or any other parts. How you can think that stuff is relevant, I haven't the faintest clue.

A last example: I have a GameBoy Advance that works with two AA batteries. Is it a more complex device than a TV remote? Absolutely! Is changing its batteries more difficult? Nope.

Well yeah Apple supports their phones 5+ years so unless I'm trading it in or upgrading of course I'm going to take it to get the battery replaced if it needs it, this is a fairly routine procedure.

Well then, have fun spending your money on a "fairly routine procedure" while I'm gonna enjoy not spending mine.

 

[Deleted member 231663]

You bought AppleCare/an extended warranty* and are trolling people about the right to repair. I’ve bought Apple phones since the 4 but gtfo

*that or you don’t understand how limited your warranty is, either way…

Who bought a warranty? Why would you assume things like that about people you do not know? Current smartphone batteries are serviceable so this also has nothing to do with right to repair.

Now you get it! There's no technical reasoning related to the device itself, anyway. We're talking about batteries, not CPUs or any other parts. How you can think that stuff is relevant, I haven't the faintest clue.

A last example: I have a GameBoy Advance that works with two AA batteries. Is it a more complex device than a TV remote? Absolutely! Is changing its batteries more difficult? Nope.

Why do you believe batteries have no technical incorporation into devices? Explain why the process for designing a battery and fitting it to a device is the same regardless of technical complication, whether it's a tv remote, GBA, 3DS, switch, steam deck, smartphone, airtag, laptops, etc

I'm curious as to why you think the process is the same regardless of device and form factor

Well then, have fun spending your money on a "fairly routine procedure" while I'm gonna enjoy not spending mine.

I won't have fun but I also have no issue paying for a battery replacement, it's not expensive nor a hassle.

 

[AusWolf]

Why do you believe batteries have no technical incorporation into devices? Explain why the process for designing a battery and fitting it to a device is the same regardless of technical complication, whether it's a tv remote, GBA, 3DS, switch, steam deck, smartphone, airtag, laptops, etc

I'm curious as to why you think the process is the same regardless of device and form factor

This is why:

Now please rank the devices you see above by the difficulty of changing their batteries.

 

[Deleted member 231663]

This is why:
PIC
Now please rank the devices you see above by the difficulty of changing their batteries.

I still dont see where you explained how the process for incorporating batteries is the same for all devices.

 

[Zareek]

Apple's market cap is 3 trillion dollars. $30 billion is 3% of that LOL

Market cap is not the same thing as yearly revenue. Your math is wrong to boot. Apple reported $394 Billion dollars in revenue for 2022, of that over $205 Billion was iPhone sales and iPhone sales in Europe accounted for $56 Billion of that. So, 24% of the iPhone revenue in 2022 came from Europe alone. Again, it's hard to say exactly how much of that is EU, only because Apple reports by region. Considering the EU is the world's second-largest economy, $30 Billion seems like a very conservative guess. It is probably closer to $40 Billion. Certainly nothing anyone sane throws away.

Sources
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/FY22_Q4_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf
https://www.businessofapps.com/data/apple-statistics/

 

[claes]

Who bought a warranty? Why would you assume things like that about people you do not know?

You both suggested that you can just take your phone into an Apple Store for up to five years after purchase and get a battery replacement (only true if Apple Care is purchased) and that you can pay for it ($150 is cheap). The asterisk does all the work in my post — either you misunderstand your warranty, you are paying for an extended warranty (and you can just walk-in with no additional fees), or…

Current smartphone batteries are serviceable so this also has nothing to do with right to repair.

maybe you don’t understand what right to repair is or why $150 is considered expensive? I’ve yet to see Apple release repair guides to the public or address ease of serviceability issues (let alone broken features when replacing Apple branded parts) by producing more accessible designs, please lmk if they have (ifixit would probably be interested, too).

 

[Deleted member 231663]

Market cap is not the same thing as yearly revenue. Your math is wrong to boot. Apple reported $394 Billion dollars in revenue for 2022, of that over $205 Billion was iPhone sales and iPhone sales in Europe accounted for $56 Billion of that. So, 24% of the iPhone revenue in 2022 came from Europe alone. Again, it's hard to say exactly how much of that is EU, only because Apple reports by region. Considering the EU is the world's second-largest economy, $30 Billion seems like a very conservative guess. It is probably closer to $40 Billion. Certainly nothing anyone sane throws away.

Correct, market cap is not the same as yearly revenue, or even cash on hand. Yet market cap directly relates to a company's equity and liquidity, so it's a valid metric in this case.

You both suggested that you can just take your phone into an Apple Store for up to five years after purchase and get a battery replacement (only true if Apple Care is purchased) and that you can pay for it ($150 is cheap). The asterisk does all the work in my post — either you misunderstand your warranty, you are paying for an extended warranty (and you can just walk-in with no additional fees), or…

Where did I suggest taking an iPhone to an Apple store for repair? Third party repair shops exist for a reason.

maybe you don’t understand what right to repair is or why $150 is considered expensive? I’ve yet to see Apple release repair guides to the public or address ease of serviceability issues (let alone broken features when replacing Apple branded parts) by producing more accessible designs, please lmk if they have (ifixit would probably be interested, too).

Apple makes parts available for repair so I'm not sure why you think this is a "right to repair" issue. Also not sure why you think $150 is expensive to replace a battery in a device costing $500-$1000? No one buys a car and expects the repairs to be cents on the dollar so it's a strange that you expect tech repairs to be vastly cheaper ratio wise than said cost of device.

Edit: also no one is forcing you to buy any of their products, if you have an issue with their business, dont buy from them; it's a very simple concept, voting with your wallet.

 

[AusWolf]

I still dont see where you explained how the process for incorporating batteries is the same for all devices.

That's because
1. It's not my problem,
2. Designing contact pads isn't more difficult than designing a ribbon cable. The rest of the battery is the same.
3. If it could be done with no issue 7-8 years ago, then it can be done now as well.

 

[Deleted member 231663]

That's because
1. It's not my problem,
2. Designing contact pads isn't more difficult than designing a ribbon cable. The rest of the battery is the same.
3. If it could be done with no issue 7-8 years ago, then it can be done now as well.

1. Technically it is because you have made the statement that designing and incorporating a battery is the same process for a Game Boy Advance, mouse, and TV remote as is the same for an iPhone, Air Tag, laptop, etc. but have not shown any proof that is the case.
2. That's your opinion, back it up with facts if you'd like to make it more than just a superfluous statement.
3. Why do you equate technology from 8 years ago to today?

 

[lexluthermiester]

I still dont see where you explained how the process for incorporating batteries is the same for all devices.

Hey, if you don't get it, YOU have the problem. If you can't see the value of being able to quickly and easily replace a battery that has either died or has worn down, then there is nothing anyone here can do for you. However, YOUR lack of understanding should in no way hold the rest of us back.

 

[95Viper]

Enough of the back and forth bickering.
Move on.
Guidelines state:

Posting in a thread
Once it is considered over, do not drag it on only to have the last word.

It is now considered over.

 

[chrcoluk]

This might surprise you, but big corporations tend to not act like little children stomping their feet and refusing to comply with reasonable rules. If Apple pulls out of the EU market for this, Google won't follow suit. Google and all the Android phone manufacturers will double down on the EU to gain the market share, and Apple would do the same if it were the other way around. Even if Google says no Google phones for the EU, their partner manufacturers will gladly grab that market.

I say the biggest thing we might see come from this is an iPhone iFat version and Samsung Galaxy Thick. Exclusives just for the EU.

Thicker phones are better anyway.

For those who say android isnt that bad.

My smart phone history.

Galaxy ACE - Battery removable, thickness of phone was nice, metal edges, sliding cover over usb slot, and plastic removable back, the phone itself was a horrific spec, but the thickness and materials used for its casing was a good design, probably best ever samsung phone I have owned in terms of the structure of the phone. Still own it so might post a pic later.
Galaxy S2 - Much better technically, but lost the cover over USB, not quite as thick, but still reasonable materials although felt cheaper vs the ACE in its structure, had removable battery.
Galaxy S3 - Thinner still, didnt like the shiny surface, battery still removable.
Galaxy S5 - Same as S3, my last android phone that had removable battery.
One plus one - work phone, battery died lol. Sold it for spare parts.
Galaxy S7 - too thin to hold, had to buy plastic case, didnt like the glass back as well, too slippery and shiny.
Huawei phone (forgot model) - new work phone after one plus one battery died, I went super cheap on this purchase, was annoyed more expensive phone was ko'd by something like a battery.
One plus 6 - Again purchased plastic cover, to thicken it and hide the horrible glass back.
G9 play - upgraded work phone, Huawei was starting to remind me of galaxy ace days, was really under spec'd and laggy. My current work phone. This thing is thick for a modern phone and has a better battery of over 5000MaH capacity, best battery life ever seen on a smart phone. Sadly not replaceable though.
One plus 8 pro - current personal phone, nearly 5000MaH battery, but OOS seems to suck at battery drain, bit better than one plus 6 on battery but nowhere near the g9 play. Of course not removable, thin and crappy glass back so yes plastic cover is used.

This is why I said earlier android is guilty of the problem as well, as its been a while since I have used a swappable battery phone. Samsung and co wont be happy either. but great news for consumers.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Thicker phones are better anyway.

Agreed. They tend to be structurally stronger.

 

[AusWolf]

Agreed. They tend to be structurally stronger.

Besides, you can fit a bigger battery in them as well. A friend of mine has a thick rugged phone (Blackview or something) that has a 13,000 mAh battery in it that lasts nearly two weeks on one charge (he doesn't use mobile data though, only WiFi).