Plan to build a SFF/Mini-ITX PC for Media & Light Gaming to 4K TV

[infernuz]

Hello everyone! My first post here.

My wife and I wanted to play together on our 65" 4K TV. I am not into console gaming so I am planning to build a HTPC with light to moderate gaming capabilities. I'd like to know after explaining further whether it is financially reasonable, or I am better off with mini PCs such as Minisforum etc., or my wants is still better with console (which I don't prefer and if it ended up like that, I'll scrap the whole idea. My experience with PC building is with ATX and M-ATX so Mini-ITX will be a first.

Purpose of Use:
- Light Gaming (split screen couch co-op games like Rocket League, F1 22, RPGs etc.), doesn't aim for top quality as long as less or no stutter, mostly old games?
- Media streaming (Netflix, YouTube) instead of buying Chromecast
- This will not run 24/7.

Wants:
- Case that will blend with our TV so slim and/or console like case. Searched like Fractal Design Ridge, Terra (expensive), SST Sugo Series (budget). Once we change to a house, the TV will be wall mounted to give space.
- Controller and Wireless Media Keyboard - any alternatives to XBOX Wireless Controller w/o compatibility issues? For KB/Mouse replacement, I found Rii Wireless Media Keyboard
- Keep the costs low relative to performance so I plan to mix brand new and used parts. New will be PSU at the minimum.

My Idea of Specs: Target budget $500-600 at the most if doable; price in USD for reference (local in JPY)
- AMD Ryzen 5600
- Cheapest Mini-ITX Motherboard
- 16GB DDR4 3200
- SFF 500W PSU
- Low Profile GPU if required
- WIFI adapter if motherboard has none

Questions:
- Will AMD APUs serve us well based on the purpose of use? Or will it struggle projecting to the TV? If dedicated GPU is required, what is the sweet balance between performance and power/heat? AMD RX low profile gpus?
- CPU is R5 5600 will this suffice? To manage heat, TDP 65W is the target max CPU.
- Overall on a SFF 500W PSU should be sufficient?
- Anything I need to consider or caution in terms of connecting the PC to the TV? Our TV has HDMI output but read that it is not as simple as connecting HDMI cable. I don't want to end up building a unit that will project badly on the TV.
- Can 2 wireless remote controllers work together on single PC? Will there be no conflicts?

That is all I can think of. If you have further suggestions or pointers, please let me know. TIA!!!

 

[tabascosauz]

For AM4, 5600G offers plenty of power to drive a 4K. 5600 makes zero sense considering low end GPUs suck and don't offer anything more. Both trivial to cool

For gaming, you will be firmly stuck to 1080p max for the vast majority of titles. For media 4K is fine.

Xbox controller + USB wireless adapter offers good range and less latency compared to over BT.

Look into HDPlex solutions to enable going for a smaller, non mass market case if that's your thing. The fact that a 200W HDPlex would still be more than enough, should answer your question as to 500W PSU.

In the grand scheme of things, if there is not something specific you require from ITX (e.g. ability to fit a proper GPU down the line, a unique case you want to use, OC), then vendors like Minisforum offer better value, especially as at the moment only they offer up to date and much faster hardware (Ryzen 6000 and 7000 APUs).

As someone who has a 5700G and spent a lot of time with its iGPU and tweaking fast RAM, I can tell you right now that there is no amount of power consumption you can throw at a 5600G/5700G to make it anywhere near competitive with a Rembrandt or Phoenix APU with 680M/780M graphics. Vendors like Minisforum also take the fast RAM guesswork out of the picture (even for a 5600G, 3200 is doodoo). If you aren't in a rush, you can wait a few months for Phoenix APUs to release on AM5.

 

[infernuz]

For AM4, 5600G offers plenty of power to drive a 4K. 5600 makes zero sense considering low end GPUs suck and don't offer anything more. Both trivial to cool

For gaming, you will be firmly stuck to 1080p max for the vast majority of titles. For media 4K is fine.

Xbox controller + USB wireless adapter offers good range and less latency compared to over BT.

Look into HDPlex solutions to enable going for a smaller, non mass market case if that's your thing. The fact that a 200W HDPlex would still be more than enough, should answer your question as to 500W PSU.

In the grand scheme of things, if there is not something specific you require from ITX (e.g. ability to fit a proper GPU down the line, a unique case you want to use, OC), then vendors like Minisforum offer better value, especially as at the moment only they offer up to date and much faster hardware (Ryzen 6000 and 7000 APUs).

As someone who has a 5700G and spent a lot of time with its iGPU and tweaking fast RAM, I can tell you right now that there is no amount of power consumption you can throw at a 5600G/5700G to make it anywhere near competitive with a Rembrandt or Phoenix APU with 680M/780M graphics. If you aren't in a rush, you can wait a few months for Phoenix APUs to release on AM5.

Thanks! Will it be blurry for 1080p to on the TV? Yes those mini pcs are also considered. The Mini-ITX was my idea in case d-gpu is required based on our requirements.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks! Will it be blurry for 1080p to on the TV? Yes those mini pcs are also considered. The Mini-ITX was my idea in case d-gpu is required based on our requirements.

No, it won't be blurry, not sure where you got that idea. As long as the AM4 board you pick has a HDMI 2.0 or DP 1.2 output. For desktop and media consumption, you are way underestimating what APU graphics can do these days.

As for gaming, Vega 8 in the 5700G can kinda match GTX 1050 in some cases, but only with a lot of work. 680M in 6900HS beats a GTX 1050 Ti, but is still short of A380 or the GTX 1650. 780M in the 7940HS is marginally faster. Should give you some idea of what you're looking at.

Long story short, small cheap dGPUs won't get you much farther. Second hand regular size GPUs would nullify the point of having a small build, but sure. All of those cases you listed are big enough to take full size GPUs. None of them require low profile. You want actual small cases that are closer to Minisforum? Look at Velka, Densium, etc. I use a Lazer3D HT5 (5L) and Lone L5 (4L).

However, I have seen refurbished RTX A2000s pop up recently for around $300. Could look for those, will spank everything else low profile on the market in every available metric, while still requiring only slot power and being low profile.

I'm not sure I'd lump in F1 22 with the others as "light games", considering how taxing it is on hardware. Other light games you might be able to get away with even at 4K, on a 680M/780M. Otherwise, just run the other games at 1080p.........not sure I see an issue requiring a dGPU.

 

[claes]

As someone who still uses an HTPC I can’t really recommend them anymore to anyone who doesn’t stream their own media, especially if you have surround, atmos, or hdr requirements. They’re a pain to setup, the streaming apps are trash, and the user experience is anywhere between awful and just okay (except web browsing).

Your build looks okay, but I’d consider a streaming box or nvidia shield (I haven’t used gamestream, but it seems like a good option if you aren’t ready to invest in a GPU), especially if your primary use is tv. They’re cheaper, faster, have a better ux, and apps “just work” for the most part.

 

[infernuz]

No, it won't be blurry, not sure where you got that idea. As long as the AM4 board you pick has a HDMI 2.0 or DP 1.2 output. For desktop and media consumption, you are way underestimating what APU graphics can do these days.

As for gaming, Vega 8 in the 5700G can kinda match GTX 1050 in some cases, but only with a lot of work. 680M in 6900HS beats a GTX 1050 Ti, but is still short of A380 or the GTX 1650. 780M in the 7940HS is marginally faster. Should give you some idea of what you're looking at.

Long story short, small cheap dGPUs won't get you much farther. Second hand regular size GPUs would nullify the point of having a small build, but sure. All of those cases you listed are big enough to take full size GPUs. None of them require low profile. You want actual small cases that are closer to Minisforum? Look at Velka, Densium, etc. I use a Lazer3D HT5 (5L) and Lone L5 (4L).

However, I have seen refurbished RTX A2000s pop up recently for around $300. Could look for those, will spank everything else low profile on the market in every available metric, while still requiring only slot power and being low profile.

I'm not sure I'd lump in F1 22 with the others as "light games", considering how taxing it is on hardware. Other light games you might be able to get away with even at 4K, on a 680M/780M. Otherwise, just run the other games at 1080p.........not sure I see an issue requiring a dGPU.

Just my rough noob idea that it will be blurry. Is there a desktop equivalent for 680M/7940HS in mini-ITX or I can only see that in mini PCs? Now I understand that with the gaming plan we have, the APUs should be enough. For the case, the smallest I can go with an mini ITX will be fine I think.

As someone who still uses an HTPC I can’t really recommend them anymore to anyone who doesn’t stream their own media, especially if you have surround, atmos, or hdr requirements. They’re a pain to setup, the streaming apps are trash, and the user experience is anywhere between awful and just okay (except web browsing).

Your build looks okay, but I’d consider a streaming box or nvidia shield (I haven’t used gamestream, but it seems like a good option if you aren’t ready to invest in a GPU), especially if your primary use is tv. They’re cheaper, faster, have a better ux, and apps “just work” for the most part.

We do not plan to stream from a network storage. My idea was to watch Netflix and stuff through browser or Windows app into the TV. So you mean this is not good experience in the HTPC? I do not have specific audio requirements so that part should be fine.

I wanted to do gaming as well that is why I was inclined on the HTPC/M-ITX build instead of pure stream only purpose device. What do you think?

 

[tabascosauz]

Just my rough noob idea that it will be blurry. Is there a desktop equivalent for 680M/7940HS in mini-ITX or I can only see that in mini PCs? Now I understand that with the gaming plan we have, the APUs should be enough. For the case, the smallest I can go with an mini ITX will be fine I think.

We do not plan to stream from a network storage. My idea was to watch Netflix and stuff through browser or Windows app into the TV. So you mean this is not good experience in the HTPC? I do not have specific audio requirements so that part should be fine.

I wanted to do gaming as well that is why I was inclined on the HTPC/M-ITX build instead of pure stream only purpose device. What do you think?

No new APUs until Phoenix (7940HS but desktop) comes to AM5. Should be later this year or early next year. A small prebuilt like Minisforum should have the same performance - socketed APUs have a lot more potential for better cooling, but APUs don't scale very well with power anyway and are pretty easy to cool at stock. So either wait a bit to build, or just get the same APUs now.

680M is last gen for Rembrandt (e.g. 6900HS). 780M is current gen for Phoenix (e.g. 7940HS). Both are 12CU iGPUs, the strongest iGPUs available, and pretty similar in performance though 780M is a bit faster.

As for peripherals, here's the controller adapter: https://www.xbox.com/en-CA/accessories/adapters/wireless-adapter-windows

 

[claes]

We do not plan to stream from a network storage. My idea was to watch Netflix and stuff through browser or Windows app into the TV. So you mean this is not good experience in the HTPC? I do not have specific audio requirements so that part should be fine.

If you don’t need surround or HDR then it should be fine. Some services have apps, others you’ll have to use the browser. Not unusable or anything but something like a Roku or Apple TV would be nicer.

I wanted to do gaming as well that is why I was inclined on the HTPC/M-ITX build instead of pure stream only purpose device. What do you think?

That’s why I suggested the Shield — you can use their gamestream feature to “stream” the game from your (nvidia equipped) desktop. I’ve never tried it, so ymmv, but people I know who have have no complaints. This way you get a nice tv like experience, can play games, and don’t have to buy another GPU.

That said, I love my HTPC and, if you should ever need surround or hdr, your tv’s built-in apps or a cheap streaming device should support those things.

 

[dgianstefani]

For a $500 budget a console would be better.

PC's start making sense above $800, and the sweetspot is around $1500/2000.

I specced a low end part list that's still worth owning and it came to 145000 yen, which is approx $1000 dollars. So Japan seems to be fairly expensive.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://jp.pcpartpicker.com/list/NrTkGL

CPU: Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (¥28039.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Motherboard: Gigabyte H610I DDR4 Mini ITX LGA1700 Motherboard (¥22965.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Memory: Silicon Power XPOWER Turbine 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory (¥12041.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Storage: TEAMGROUP MP44L 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (¥11584.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Video Card: Asus Phoenix GeForce RTX 3050 8GB 8 GB Video Card (¥35338.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify 2 Nano Mini ITX Tower Case (¥17787.00 @ Newegg Japan)
Power Supply: Silverstone Essential 550 W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply (¥20342.67 @ Newegg Japan)
Total: ¥148096.67
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-07-15 20:15 JST+0900

Consider a budget gaming laptop too. Prebuilts like laptops have economies of scale on their side.

The bottom line though is that $500 isn't enough to build something with new parts. If you look on the second hand market, you may be lucky.

Considering you also want SFF, that raises prices by around 20% too.

 

[AusWolf]

I, for one, think building a mini HTPC is a great idea, if not for anything else, than just for the fun of it.

Financially, though, I would consider one of the mini PCs (Minisforum, Intel NUC) that you mentioned. When you complete a part list on any store site, check how it matches up to any mini PC or laptop in the same category.

As for usefulness, any modern GPU can play your videos at 4K without using CPU power, so you don't need to worry about that. Gaming is a different story, though. If you want to game, consider an AMD APU (Ryzen 5000G series), or the size of your case. The Silverstone Sugo series isn't too difficult to build for its small size, but they usually accept only low profile cards, which limits you to a GTX 1650 or RX 6400. They're not bad choices, but it's something to keep in mind. CPU cooling is an important matter, too. You have to make sure you choose a low TDP CPU, or you'll run into thermal issues.

All in all, building an ITX system is very different from ATX, but it's good fun.

 

[Deleted member 232534]

ITX really limits the choice and it compromises on features often at a higher price.

I would consider if the MATX HTPC, since you already have some parts for it which further extends your options.

 

[AusWolf]

ITX really limits the choice and it compromises on features often at a higher price.

I would consider if the MATX HTPC, since you already have some parts for it which further extends your options.

Speaking of which, the Silverstone Milo (or Sugo? I can't remember which) series blends in with living room furniture nicely, feature m-ATX motherboard, standard ATX PSU and full height GPU compatibility, albeit, still limited to low profile CPU coolers. M-ATX is a bit easier to work with, as well.

 

[infernuz]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Sorry can't quote respond one by one.
I try to build myself with below, what do you think? Total of US$513+/-

ITEM	DESCRIPTION	PRICE
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5700g used	¥22,000
MB	AsRock A520M-ITX/ac	¥16,136
GPU
RAM	G.Skill F4-3600C19D-32GSXWB	¥10,480
STORAGE	ADATA Legend 800 1TB M.2 NVME	¥5,680
PSU	Fractal Design ION SFX 500W	¥9,499
CASE	Silverstone Milo ML05B	¥7,715
	TOTAL	¥71,510​

 

[tabascosauz]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Sorry can't quote respond one by one.
I try to build myself with below, what do you think? Total of US$513+/-

ITEM	DESCRIPTION	PRICE
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5700g used	¥22,000
MB	AsRock A520M-ITX/ac	¥16,136
GPU
RAM	G.Skill F4-3600C19D-32GSXWB	¥10,480
STORAGE	ADATA Legend 800 1TB M.2 NVME	¥5,680
PSU	Fractal Design ION SFX 500W	¥9,499
CASE	Silverstone Milo ML05B	¥7,715
	TOTAL	¥71,510​

Looks fine. ML05B is a great size, be aware that it can only accept single slot low profile GPUs (to be honest, it really can't support dGPUs at all, no airflow when pressed up against the PSU), so be sure of your needs. That, and also just be mindful of what kind of performance you can expect from the 5700G (strong media performance, gaming basically at 720p or 1080p only).

5700G is a different beast from the 5600G. I would use a better cooler than what it ships with (Wraith Stealth), or at the very least get a pair of 80mm fans for the ML05.

Are any of the Ryzen 6000/7000 Minisforum products available in japan? I searched Amazon and only found old products not worth getting. I can see a UM773 (7735HS, rebrand 6800HS) Minisforum, but not sure if it already comes with RAM/SSD. It says it includes 32GB DDR5 and 1TB NVMe. 80k jpy for a 7735HS seems like a better deal than the ML05 build here. Way better performance and way better efficiency.

Amazon.co.jp

 

[Deleted member 232534]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Sorry can't quote respond one by one.
I try to build myself with below, what do you think? Total of US$513+/-

ITEM	DESCRIPTION	PRICE
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5700g used	¥22,000
MB	AsRock A520M-ITX/ac	¥16,136
GPU
RAM	G.Skill F4-3600C19D-32GSXWB	¥10,480
STORAGE	ADATA Legend 800 1TB M.2 NVME	¥5,680
PSU	Fractal Design ION SFX 500W	¥9,499
CASE	Silverstone Milo ML05B	¥7,715
	TOTAL	¥71,510​

ok, so you want something really small.

This case won't fit all itx gpu.

NVIDIA RTX A2000 Review - World’s Fastest ITX Card: Low-Profile and Slot-Powered

NVIDIA's RTX A2000 is the fastest graphics card that fits into a low-profile form factor. It's fast enough for 1080p Full HD Gaming at maximum details and achieves that with 75 W slot power only, which makes it even more energy-efficient than AMD's 6 and 7 nanometer RDNA2 graphics cards.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[tabascosauz]

ok, so you want something really small.

This case won't fit all itx gpu.

NVIDIA RTX A2000 Review - World’s Fastest ITX Card: Low-Profile and Slot-Powered

NVIDIA's RTX A2000 is the fastest graphics card that fits into a low-profile form factor. It's fast enough for 1080p Full HD Gaming at maximum details and achieves that with 75 W slot power only, which makes it even more energy-efficient than AMD's 6 and 7 nanometer RDNA2 graphics cards.

www.techpowerup.com

It won't fit an A2000 either. It's single slot only, and even if you fit a custom single slot bracket to the A2000, the cooler is smushed up against the side of the PSU......if it even clears, which looks unlikely.

A2000 doesn't look to be any cheaper in Japan.

 

[AusWolf]

Thank you everyone for the responses. Sorry can't quote respond one by one.
I try to build myself with below, what do you think? Total of US$513+/-

ITEM	DESCRIPTION	PRICE
CPU	AMD Ryzen 5700g used	¥22,000
MB	AsRock A520M-ITX/ac	¥16,136
GPU
RAM	G.Skill F4-3600C19D-32GSXWB	¥10,480
STORAGE	ADATA Legend 800 1TB M.2 NVME	¥5,680
PSU	Fractal Design ION SFX 500W	¥9,499
CASE	Silverstone Milo ML05B	¥7,715
	TOTAL	¥71,510​

Looks awesome!

If you need a larger GPU, like the A2000 mentioned before, the Milo ML09 should have double slot, but still low profile support (I have one myself with a passive GT 1030 and two slim case fans smushed up in it). But I think you'll be fine with the 5700G.

 

[infernuz]

Thanks guys! My local store and the used market has 5700G trays only for the listed price. I plan to pair it with a Noctua LH9i fan. Any recommended thermal grease? Also, I read that iGPUs benefit from fast RAM so is it correct that I am better off with DDR4 4400Mhz than 3200Mhz? (checking motherboard QVL). I do not plan to overclock actually and will be first time to use XMP or AMD equivalent one if I am gonna do it.

BTW I chose an A520 chipset motherboard because I read 5700G is only PCI-E 3.0 and it is cheaper. What are the significant gains I get vs B550? The B550M ITX boards goes additional US$64.

IF I consider upgrading dGPU (for reasonable gain from 5700G performance otherwise none), is 500W PSU minimum or I can go lower?

My TV area is like this. The blue rectangular box area is holder area separated by glass tray. Length is 45cm, height from bottom to glass tray is 14cm. From glass tray to top part is 13cm. Was wondering if I can put instead on the left like in orange box (I look in Fractal Design Ridge). I checked SST Sugo's dimensions and it will be quite big on the tray area. Top of table is impossible unless I wall-mount the TV (currently unable).

 

[AusWolf]

Thermal grease: I'd say Arctic MX-4. It's not the best of the best, but it's very close, easy to use, and dirt cheap.

4400 MHz RAM: It helps with iGPU performance, but it's not guaranteed to work. Officially, 3200 MHz is the max support, but a lot of people recommend 3600. If you plan on buying a GPU later, it won't matter much anyway. Save your money on this one.

GPU with PSU: That depends on which GPU you want. If it's anything without a power connector (e.g. GTX 1650), then a quality 300-350 W unit will do fine.

Orange box: No problem. The beauty of the Sugo is that it works both standing up and laying down.

 

[infernuz]

Thermal grease: I'd say Arctic MX-4. It's not the best if the best, but it's very close, easy to use, and dirt cheap.

4400 MHz RAM: It helps with iGPU performance, but it's not guaranteed to work. Officially, 3200 MHz is the max support, but a lot of people recommend 3600. If you plan on buying a GPU later, it won't matter much anyway. Save your money on this one.

GPU with PSU: That depends on which GPU you want. If it's anything without a power connector (e.g. GTX 1650), then a quality 300-350 W unit will do fine.

Orange box: No problem. The beauty of the Sugo is that it works both standing up and laying down.

Thank you. So it is safer for me to go 3200 max unless any hardcore requirements from the igpu right? Got it I'll go for 3200 as it is cheaper.

PSU: With the games we plan to play and after watching some YouTube videos, I can assume 5700G can handle most older titles. May I ask what LP GPU options do I have which will have gains over Vega 8? I don't want to buy later on a GPU with negligible gain in comparison. Also I think I'll go 500W.

Case: Got it!

Thanks always.

 

[AusWolf]

Thank you. So it is safer for me to go 3200 max unless any hardcore requirements from the igpu right? Got it I'll go for 3200 as it is cheaper.

PSU: With the games we plan to play and after watching some YouTube videos, I can assume 5700G can handle most older titles. May I ask what LP GPU options do I have which will have gains over Vega 8? I don't want to buy later on a GPU with negligible gain in comparison. Also I think I'll go 500W.

Case: Got it!

Thanks always.

No problem.

Others might have a different opinion, but I think 3200 MHz is fine. You can try 3600 MHz if the difference in price is negligible and you feel adventurous, but going higher brings more risk that it won't work.

Your LP GPU options are the Radeon RX 6400 from Sapphire or Powercolor, although limited to PCI-e 3.0 with the 5700G (keep that in mind when reading reviews), or LP versions of the GeForce GTX 1650 from MSi, Asus or Gigabyte, although they are dual-slot.