MS Surface Book 3 Problem

[Neversummer]

Hi all,

I'm getting only 30-45 FPS in COD even with very low quality settings. I red that SB3 (CPU: i7-1065G7; GPU: GTX 1660 Ti) is often facing the problem of throttling.

I downloaded ThrottleStop 9.6 and followed the "Basic Throttlestop and Undervolting Guide". Unfortunatly, undervolting isn't possible so I could only set speed shift to 20. Now FPS is even lower (~30-35FPS).

I also saw that PL1 is constantly red, regardless if I turn Throttlestop on or off.

Any hints how to identify and fix the issue?

Many thnkas in advance!!

 

[KaptainKasoy]

Perhaps you're using the IGPU on the game?

Try play the game for some time with throttlestop in the background and log option enabled. Afterward, send the log file here and maybe someone with more experience can help.

 

[unclewebb]

often facing the problem of throttling.

If you know the SB3 has throttling problems then it sounds like your computer is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Throttle.

Some ThrottleStop tweaks might help but not all throttling problems can be solved. If you need help, post some screenshots. Include the main window and the FIVR and TPL windows. It is impossible to make any suggestions without seeing how your computer is setup.

 

[Neversummer]

Thanks for the fast answers. Here are the screenshots:

I started playing COD Warzone at 19:55 with the settings that you see in the screenshots. Interestingly this time I got 50-55 FPS - i.e. more than yesterday- but with very low graphic settings. Maybe because of the reboot .... As you can see PL1 went on immediately. At around 20:02 I changed the Speed Shift EPP setting from 20 to 80. FPS went down to 40-55.. not sure if this was because I changed settings or higher temp... . Shall I adjust TP1 / TP2 settings? IF yes, which chnages would you recommend?

 

[unclewebb]

You need to disable Windows 11 VBS including core isolation memory integrity if maximum performance is important to you. There is a link in my signature that shows how to do this. Reboot and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file before running ThrottleStop. If you do not do this, most of the items in the FIVR window will not work correctly.

You have to push the Start Data button when you are logging data. There is no point in trying to log data if the data is not being updated every second.

In the TPL window try checking the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right of that window.

Post some updated screenshots once you get VBS disabled and the FIVR window working correctly.

Don't take a screenshot of a log file. Just attach the log file as a text file. Much more efficient and easier for me to work with.

 

[Neversummer]

Thanks again I changed the settings. Here are the acreens and LogFile (see attachment):

I was able to get 58 FPS now (my Monitor can only do 60, so I set FPS to 58), but my laptop overheated ... any advice for further adjustments?

 

[unclewebb]

The log file shows a BD PROCHOT throttling problem. Clear the BD PROCHOT box on the main screen.

The FIVR window is still not working correctly. Is core isolation memory integrity disabled? Post a screenshot of the Windows Features window. Something virtualization related is enabled.

Your cooling is marginal at 30W. Try setting PL1 to 25W and PL2 to 30W.

 

[Neversummer]

Yes core isolation is disabled. Is it save to deactivate PROCHOT? I didn'T deactivated PROCHOT but just set PL1 to 25W and PL2 to 30W. With this setting PROCHOT was still causing throttling issues. I further reduces PL1 to 20W and PL2 to 25W and now PROCHOT didn't cause any throttling problems. The temp was ~80-90°C. Attached find the scre

en from the Windows Features.
Regarding FIVR: I red that SB3 can't be undevolted or overclocked because there is no BIOS old enough that doesn't have the plundervolt fix.

 

[unclewebb]

BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT are two different things. You should disable BD PROCHOT. ThrottleStop does not have any feature to disable PROCHOT.

Later I will try to go through your Features list with Google Translate.

Most of your severe throttling problems are being caused by BD PROCHOT, not PROCHOT.

Edit - I cannot see anything obvious in your Windows Features list. Double check your core isolation setting. Reboot and delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file. It still seems like something is not quite right. Something is blocking the ThrottleStop FIVR window from fully accessing your CPU. IccMax should not be showing 1.00 and Digital I/O should not be showing up either.

Edit - One other thing. What antivirus program are you using? Does it have a sandbox feature? This can also block access to the CPU registers.

 

[Neversummer]

Good catch - VBS was still running despite I followed exactly the instructions .. turned out that I had to edit a second entry in registry. But now its off:

 

[unclewebb]

VBS was still running

I thought so.

You might be able to get away with both power limits set to 25W. Some occasional thermal throttling is not the end of the world. It is the BD PROCHOT throttling that needs to be avoided. Thermal throttling only slows the CPU down the bare minimum. BD PROCHOT was slowing your CPU down to less than 200 MHz. No idea who thought that level of throttling would be a good idea.

In the ThrottleStop Options window is there a lock icon near the PROCHOT Offset setting? If you do not see a lock icon, you can lower PROCHOT Offset to raise the temperature when thermal throttling begins. The Intel default for this setting is 0. Setting this to somewhere in the 2 to 5 range should be fine. It will give you a little more performance when the CPU is getting hot.

My computer is not locked so I can set PROCHOT Offset to any value I like.

Is your computer running better and games running smoother compared to when you first started this adventure? It should be.

 

[Neversummer]

Yes, its much better now! I'm able to get stable >50FPS with better graphic quality.
Thanks a lot for your great help !!!

PS: Main issue remains the cooling of the SB3 because the GPU + CPU is behind the screen as it can be used as a tablet. I will buy an external fan to see if this can reduce temp and by this further improve the performance. I will also do a bit research if the GPU can be tweaked as well ...

 

[Conti027]

The dGPU is in the base of the SB3.

 

[Neversummer]

The dGPU is in the base of the SB3.

Ah ok, thanks for the hint.

Today the fan arrived. I put it behin the screen (where the CPU sits) and it really seem to improve the temperature issue. However, to my surprise I was back to 30-40 FPS. I restarted Windows / ThrottleStop / Game I it didn't change anything. I'm very confused. Maybe I changed a setting by accident, but it seems that GPU & CPU are both not at its limit ... would be great if you could take another look on the log and settings ...

 

[unclewebb]

The FIVR monitoring table shows that Speed Shift EPP is set to 153. Are you using the Windows Power Saver power plan? This will interfere with maximum performance. Try changing to the Windows Balanced power plan and see if the Speed Shift EPP value changes. The default EPP is 84 when using the Windows Balanced power plan but some laptops might set that differently.

 

[Che0063]

Microsoft's entire surface lineup has weird throttling causes - EDP throttling on my surface books (I've had all 3 gens) is caused by too high of a skin temperature on the back of the tablet - your observation of higher FPS during games can likely be attributed to drastically lowered rear skin temperature that no longer triggers EDP throttling - your device was never hitting power limits, but temperature limits arbitrarily defined by Microsoft that are not openly accessible nor modifiable

View attachment 307267

The FIVR monitoring table shows that Speed Shift EPP is set to 153. Are you using the Windows Power Saver power plan? This will interfere with maximum performance. Try changing to the Windows Balanced power plan and see if the Speed Shift EPP value changes. The default EPP is 84 when using the Windows Balanced power plan but some laptops might set that differently.

On Surface Books, Windows controls EPP values only if the user is on the balanced power plan, with the EPP values being influenced by whether the laptop is on battery/AC, as well as what performance mode (Recommended, better performance, best performance). It will fight and override whatever TS tries to set repeatedly. That's why sometimes I deliberately set my power mode to Power Saver, so only TS controls EPP values