How come no CPU coolers w/heatpipes and vapor chamber?

[80251]

GPU's are using combination heatpipe and vapor chamber cooling solutions, why don't they have such cooling tech for CPU's?

 

[Dragokar]

Costs.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Probably not enough surface area and the cost vs benefits. Most gpu vapor chambers are large and typically only come on the premium models.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

Seems like it would help with the thermal density issue on Ryzen.

Especially if delidded.

 

[GreiverBlade]

redundancy? anyone? ... (not that i think using flat and tubular vapour chamber at the same time is bad ofc )

a heatpipe is a tubular vapor chamber technically, so in example a direct contact heatpipe HSF like the Enermax ETS-T50 AXE i use, would not need a vapour chamber or the OCZ Vendeta 2 i also use for my S775 retrorigs.

my Thermalright IFX-14 or Scythe Katana 4 on the other hand ... (copper, nickel plated, base for both)

 

[Kapone33]

Didn't Cooler Master make one of those about 3 or 4 years ago?

 

[80251]

On the GPU's that have both heatpipes and a vapor chamber are the heatpipes used to help cool the vapor chamber? Or are the heatpipes responsible for cooling other parts of the GPU (e.g. VRM circuit)?

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

On the GPU's that have both heatpipes and a vapor chamber are the heatpipes used to help cool the vapor chamber? Or are the heatpipes responsible for cooling other parts of the GPU (e.g. VRM circuit)?

It's like Tecs, you can stack them for effect but cost goes up and efficiency goes down, mass goes up too obviously.

It's a vapor on vapor chamber in effect but different shapes I wonder what monstrosity HSF's lie in labs somewhere.

 

[LabRat 891]

GPU's are using combination heatpipe and vapor chamber cooling solutions, why don't they have such cooling tech for CPU's?

Look more. They're just quite uncommon in 'enthusiast kit'.
Though, Cooler Master did make the V8 GTS, with precisely this arrangement.

Unboxing & Review: Cooler Master V8 GTS CPU Cooler

We fired up a CPU stress test with Prime95 with the option 'In-place large FFTs' for maximum heat output, under room temperature of 28ºC. We've also included

www.tech-critter.com

Many low-profile 1U and 2U coolers for many-core CPUs in Multi-CPU serverboards, utilize a vapour chamber. I've seen at least 2 that combine a vapor chamber and heatpipes.

 

[claes]

On the GPU's that have both heatpipes and a vapor chamber are the heatpipes used to help cool the vapor chamber? Or are the heatpipes responsible for cooling other parts of the GPU (e.g. VRM circuit)?

Both

Look more. They're just quite uncommon in 'enthusiast kit'.
Though, Cooler Master did make the V8 GTS, with precisely this arrangement.

Unboxing & Review: Cooler Master V8 GTS CPU Cooler

We fired up a CPU stress test with Prime95 with the option 'In-place large FFTs' for maximum heat output, under room temperature of 28ºC. We've also included

www.tech-critter.com

View attachment 307210

Many low-profile 1U and 2U coolers for many-core CPUs in Multi-CPU serverboards, utilize a vapour chamber. I've seen at least 2 that combine a vapor chamber and heatpipes.

I believe CM came out with a few more in the past few years, they performed pretty averagely

 

[GreiverBlade]

On the GPU's that have both heatpipes and a vapor chamber are the heatpipes used to help cool the vapor chamber? Or are the heatpipes responsible for cooling other parts of the GPU (e.g. VRM circuit)?

most of my GPU do only have heatpipes, and either direct contact heatpipes or nickel plated copper base ... only a few have vapor chamber and it does not really do much differences

i had a GTX 1070 with a HSF using a vapor chamber and my original Armor model from MSI

direct contact heatpipe or if you prefer, "tubular vapour chamber" worked just as fine and even sometime slightly better than the "combo"

my Red Devil :

is cool as a cucumber even during heavy load ... and i only see heatpipes

iirc a vapour chamber equals 3-4 heatpipes

and i suspect even with the most hungry CPU using both like some GPU HSF design is not necessary (well for GPU it's not really necessary either, i only saw flat vapour chamber on full copper/aluminum heatsink most of the time.)


i will make a petition to rename vapour chamber and heatpipes into "flat vapour chamber" and "tubular vapour chamber"

 

[R00kie]

I have this bad boy sitting in my attic, its a CoolerMaster TPC 800, also had a bit of a vapour chamber along with 6 heatpipes, came with no fans out of the box, and compared to the CPNS10X Performa from Zalman that I had back at the time, which was a budget model in the range, it made absolutely no difference in temperatures. In most tests it used to be worse than the Hyper 212 Evo.

So to answer your question, these things were kinda pricy and made little to no difference against some other coolers in the same price range.

 

[GreiverBlade]

it made absolutely no difference in temperatures. In most tests it used to be worse than the Hyper 212 Evo.

yep, actually heatpipes errrr.... tubular vapour chamber are better for tower cooler ... and flat vapour chamber should always .... lie flat ... (iirc if has something to do with tubular transfering heat better than flat if used in a similar way )

 

[Kapone33]

The only GPU I bought that had that tech was my Sapphire Nitro-X Vapor. That card was a beast and ran super cool. In fact it spoiled me into thinking that GPUs were all like that but the Gigabyte Vega 64 showed how wrong I was.

 

[freeagent]

I don’t think it’s needed, at least not for Ryzen.

 

[Vya Domus]

The problem is vapor chambers work best when the actual fins are attached to the vapor chamber itself, which you can't really do on CPU coolers because of the way they have to be shaped. So if you just have a vapor chamber which then goes to a bunch of heat pipes which then go to fins it's ineffective because at every step you lose heat transfer effectiveness.

So it's either vapor chamber to fins or heat pipes to fins, not both.

 

[LabRat 891]

BTW, 2U FCLGA 4189 Coolers use both a vapor chamber and heatpipes to facilitate a 270W TDP-rating.

N8 | Dynatron

_______________________________ CPU SUPPORTIntel CPU SOCKETFCLGA4189-4/5(Socket P4/P5) APPLICATION2U & UP MAXIMUM POWER270 W_______________________________ * For Intel® 3rd Gen. Xeon Scalable Processor(code name Copper Lake, Socket LGA4189-5), DY-PK-4189-P5 Package Carrier needs to purchase...

www.dynatron.co

Aluminum Fin Stack, 5 Heatpipes with Vapor Chamber Base, Passive Cooler for 2U Server and up. Support 270W CPU powered heat dissipation.

 

[joemama]

I think the main reason should be the mobo clearance.
The vapor chamber idea would work the best if the contact area between the vapor chamber and heatpipes is big, but that also means you need big clearance on the mobo.
These vapor chambers and heat pipes work better than solid metal for spreading heat at long distances, however, if the distance is short, solid metal would conduct better, so small vapor chambers and short heat pipes doesn't work well.

 

[claes]

The problem is vapor chambers work best when the actual fins are attached to the vapor chamber itself, which you can't really do on CPU coolers because of the way they have to be shaped. So if you just have a vapor chamber which then goes to a bunch of heat pipes which then go to fins it's ineffective because at every step you lose heat transfer effectiveness.

So it's either vapor chamber to fins or heat pipes to fins, not both.

I don’t believe this is true… some of the best performing GPU and laptop coolers are vapor chamber to heatpipes to fins

I think the main reason should be the mobo clearance.
The vapor chamber idea would work the best if the contact area between the vapor chamber and heatpipes is big, but that also means you need big clearance on the mobo.

There are diminishing returns beyond 3mm height for vapor chambers, and realistically we’re talking 7-9mm to encompass a heatpipe. In any case, most heatsinks have a good 20mm+ between the base and the fin stack

These vapor chambers and heat pipes work better than solid metal for spreading heat at long distances, however, if the distance is short, solid metal would conduct better, so small vapor chambers and short heat pipes doesn't work well.

This is the real reason I think — most heatsink manufacturers don’t recommend using a vapor chamber unless the area of the chamber is 20x the area of the heat source. I think this is why they are so effective on GPUs and laptops and perform as well as plain metal on CPU coolers (manufacturers actually recommend a copper or aluminum base if you can’t reach 20x).

 

[80251]

@LabRat 891
The N8 Dynatron sounds impressive: 270Watts dissipated in such a small package (113 x 78 x 64 mm) -- passively! The NH-D15s is only rated to dissipate 167 watts.

 

[Veseleil]

@LabRat 891
The N8 Dynatron sounds impressive: 270Watts dissipated in such a small package (113 x 78 x 64 mm) -- passively! The NH-D15s is only rated to dissipate 167 watts.

NH-D15 doesn't have 15k+ RPM fans...

 

[80251]

NH-D15 doesn't have 15k+ RPM fans...

I see what you're saying, even though the N8 Dynatron doesn't have any fans directly attached to it, the server rack enclosure has powerful, ducted fans directing air right at it.

It's disingenuous for Dynatron to make the claim that their heatsink can dissipate 270 Watts passively.

 

[Mussels]

va

GPU's are using combination heatpipe and vapor chamber cooling solutions, why don't they have such cooling tech for CPU's?

vapour chambers are just another name for heatpipe

They're a way to cut costs by using less copper, not a way to boost performance. Under certain specific conditions (covered above by others) they can perform just as well, so they're used within that niche and not outside it.

 

[Veseleil]

Well, you said it yourself, passively in server vocabulary means just that:

the server rack enclosure has powerful, ducted fans directing air right at it.

 

[londiste]

They're a way to cut costs by using less copper, not a way to boost performance. Under certain specific conditions (covered above by others) they can perform just as well, so they're used within that niche and not outside it.

Heatpipes (and vapor chambers) have higher thermal conductivity than solid copper block of the same size.