AMD Retreating from Enthusiast Graphics Segment with RDNA4?

[MarsM4N]

They're just following Nvidia's footsteps. Fu** the (broken) gamers, the big cash is in Crypto Miners AI Data Centers.

Evidence Shows AI-Driven Companies Are Buying up Gaming GPUs

Hopefully we can avoid a repeat of the cryptomining-GPU situation.

www.tomshardware.com

It won't get any better, just get used to overpriced mid tier cards that barely deliver the performance of 3 year old tech.

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

Personally. I think AMD should focus kn APUs and use them to destroy Nvidia in the xx60 class an below, it's quickly getting to the point where that's the case.

BTW, everybody seems to forget the emerging market of handheld which AMD pretty much created and now dominates and I can only imagine it'll grow in the future.

Great! No need for me to look at AMD cards anymore. No need to think or compare; just buy Nvidia I guess.

That's what 90% of consumers were doing already.....in a way, we brought this on, and I hope we enjoy the Nvidia monopoly we helped to create (not me though, I've never purchased a single Nvidia product in my life and I never will....it's a moral decision. BTW, just because I hate Nvidia doesn't not automatically mean I'm an AMD fan)

 

[Shou Miko]

Problem too was that under Covid prices spiked and crypto mining took off yet again and this made Nvidia the most money and they continue to think that everything will pay over 1000USD MSRP for a card so they keep charging their bad prices and get everyone up on the hype because same for smartphones.

Apple things they can release a iPhone 1000+ USD and include almost not anything but the phone itself then people keep buying it so Samsung and others do the same, it takes one company to start something and force their user base to actually pay it and when this happens others follow.

Wish we could go back in time with better prices for everything not like now where things cost more than it should just because they exist.

I am still waiting on a APU that can deliver 120+ fps on 1440p high that uses max 120watt that would be awesome to see when we as consumers keep getting told to lower your energy comsumption every day than force the bigger companies to make something that uses less power it would be a greater win for the world and enviroment than having graphics cards that on their own uses 400-800watts a card depending on how insane AMD or Nvidia want to go to be the best of the best in performance....

Turn the table around and see what they can do to deliever the best performance for a capped wattage.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

It's a lot worse than I thought. There's no Navi 41 nor Navi 42. Only Navi 43 which is the successor of the RX 7600. It's probably bringing a 128bit bus. A true successor to the 7900XTX is only coming in 2025, if ever.

This is the direct result of two decades of so many people only pushing for AMD to release competitive cards so that they can buy a geforce for less money, even when AMD/ATi offered better performance for the price.
Those people deserve to pay every extra cent of the hundreds/thousands for their next high-end nvidia card. This is their doing, and joke's on them if they can't afford it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1687965285288992772

Rumors that don't deserve my time, didn't read more than 3 words of the article.

Kepler's track record has been pristine so far.

The discrete graphics card is toxic at the moment. Gamers want prices to stay the same even if costs are going up.

No, the discrete graphics card market is toxic because of Nvidia and AMD. They tried to use the crypto boom to inflate dGPU prices across all ranges, to see if they could keep to themselves all the benefits of technological innovation.
For Nvidia this didn't go as bad because after crypto, people turned to geforces to do stable diffusion and LLMs. For AMD this meant their sharpest decline ever in GPU sales, and now they're not moving enough GPU stock to justify being in the market. AMD's choice to undercut Nvidia by 10% on similar performance levels while failing in a comparable featureset was abhorrent.

 

[ARF]

Personally. I think AMD should focus kn APUs and use them to destroy Nvidia in the xx60 class an below, it's quickly getting to the point where that's the case.

APUs are extremely memory throughput starved. DDR5 even 10,000 won't help a lot, maybe do something like Radeon RX 6400 in the best case.

 

[Dan.G]

APUs are extremely memory throughput starved. DDR5 even 10,000 won't help a lot, maybe do something like Radeon RX 6400 in the best case.

Triple-channel memory support for consumer products, please!
Also, what about QDR? We had DDR for decades now...

 

[thunderingroar]

I would rather have Intel and Nvidia duke it out. Sell the graphics division, AMD.

How come this fancucker guy always has the most brain numbing comments, every time without fail

 

[AnarchoPrimitiv]

but the moment it sparks serious competition with AMD, the dreaded duopoly will end. I don't think AMD will give Intel free marketshares, and the competition between them should see NV stop its anti-everyone attitude.

I think you're wrong there, Intel won't end the duopoly, they'll just switch places with AMD and leave it completely intact....Nvidia seemingly has an unbreakable hold over the consumer base and unfortunately, it cannot simply be broken with an empirically better product and here's why:

If you study the research into consumer psychology you'll quickly learn thet the vast majority of consumers do NOT make rational choices based on comparable empirical data (PC enthusiasts wrongfully think they do because that's what enthusiasts do). They make completely irrational choices based on perception (no matter how divorced from reality that may be), how a product makes them "feel", on word of mouth even when the source of the recommendation cannot be verified to be correct, and in social pressure.

The social pressure and peer pressure is a big one. Consider the following hypothetical situation: someone new to PC gaming and new to the community will be immediately exposed to the opinions of others, now if they happen on cite like WCCFTech, they'll be exposed to pretty much nothing but rabid Nvidia fans who are constantly spamming things like "AMDumbs" or "AMDead", spamming the old, though long disproven, claims that Radeon runs hot and other artifacts leftover from the the 290x. Being that Nvidia has 90% marketshare, they're going to be exposed to these pressures pretty much anywhere they go. Depending on their own psychological makeup and personality, their desire to belong to the "in crowd" may have them simply buy Nvidoa without comparing a single benchmark. And don't underestimate the power of these parasocial relationships and the desire to be seen with the "winning side", because they have a profound impact on consumer decisions.

This is why even when AMD releases a GPU that is undeniably a better value, Nvidia still outsells them 10 to 1. Because to many, performance is not as important as the desire to be seen as "cool" or "a part of the crowd" to others.

*I'm not trying to denigrate anybody or demean anybody, I'm just relaying the fact that research into consumer psychology shows that the overwhelming majority of consumers make irrational choices based on intangible factors.

It's a lot worse than I thought. There's no Navi 41 nor Navi 42. Only Navi 43 which is the successor of the RX 7600. It's probably bringing a 128bit bus. A true successor to the 7900XTX is only coming in 2025, if ever.

This is the direct result of two decades of so many people only pushing for AMD to release competitive cards so that they can buy a geforce for less money, even when AMD/ATi offered better performance for the price.
Those people deserve to pay every extra cent of the hundreds/thousands for their next high-end nvidia card. This is their doing, and joke's on them if they can't afford it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1687965285288992772

Kepler's track record has been pristine so far.




No, the discrete graphics card market is toxic because of Nvidia and AMD. They tried to use the crypto boom to inflate dGPU prices across all ranges, to see if they could keep to themselves all the benefits of technological innovation.
For Nvidia this didn't go as bad because after crypto, people turned to geforces to do stable diffusion and LLMs. For AMD this meant their sharpest decline ever in GPU sales, and now they're not moving enough GPU stock to justify being in the market. AMD's choice to undercut Nvidia by 10% on similar performance levels while failing in a comparable featureset was abhorrent.

Nvidia steers the market, AMD just follows and usually just out of sheer desperation to survive. I would argue that the snti-consumer trends that emerge in the dGPU market are usually inspired by Nvidia. AMD shareholders see what Nvidia is charging and don't understand why AMD doesn't do the same and that's because they're investors NOT PC ENTHUSIASTS. TThis is why AMD can't simply sell GPUs at cost or very cheaply to play the long game of marketshare, because investors expect nothing but short term profit every quarter. I think this is what people miss, because it's constantly repeated that "AMD shouldnjust sell GPUs cheaply to get marketshare". How do you explain that to investors? How do you explain that "we're not going to turn a profit for 4 years/2 generations in hopes that we'll gain marketshare"....see how well that goes over with the price of AMD stock. Corporations are designed to make return for investors, investors don't care how that's accomplished and they don't care about videocard buyers.

 

[enb141]

Finally. All those worshiping Nvidia, no matter what, all those years, will be asked to pay twice the price for their next GPU. They will be blaming AMD obviously while begging Intel to come and rescue them.
Going to buy some champagne to celebrate.

Spoiler

obviously I am for the madhouse with this comment, but understand this, 15 years reading the same crap "Don't buy AMD. This AMD model is faster than the Nvidia one and cheaper also, but "AMD this and AMD that and AMD the other.....and excuses"

Apple killed their relationship with AMD, now they have their own GPUs, but are a joke in comparison to Nvidia.

I'm not an nvidia fanboy but AMD support is trash, their forums are dead, nobody from AMD reads them, my 6400 sucks no 10 bit or VRR on my smart tv so now I will be moving to a 4060, paying way more but also getting rid of trash AMD drivers.

 

[Assimilator]

And still nvidia posts huge profits, while AMD posts losses. Why is that? AMD's strategies don't work?
I mean it's cool all those chiplets and things, but do they actually make a difference?


View attachment 307984

NVIDIA Announces Financial Results for First Quarter Fiscal 2024, Gaming Down 38% YoY, Stock still Jumps +25%

NVIDIA today reported revenue for the first quarter ended April 30, 2023, of $7.19 billion, down 13% from a year ago and up 19% from the previous quarter. GAAP earnings per diluted share for the quarter were $0.82, up 28% from a year ago and up 44% from the previous quarter. Non-GAAP earnings...

www.techpowerup.com

View attachment 307985

AMD Reports Second Quarter 2023 Financial Results, Revenue Down 18% YoY

AMD today announced revenue for the second quarter of 2023 of $5.4 billion, gross margin of 46%, operating loss of $20 million, net income of $27 million and diluted earnings per share of $0.02. On a non-GAAP basis, gross margin was 50%, operating income was $1.1 billion, net income was $948...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD attempted to pivot from being a high-volume low-margin producer with Zen 1/2/3 and RDNA 1/2, to a low-volume high-margin one with Zen 4 and RDNA 3. A questionable strategy at best, especially when they're competing with their own older but cheaper product still in the channel, Intel who wised up and decided to compete on value (retaining DDR4 support was a masterstroke), and NVIDIA who is the unquestionable performance leader and seems to be consistently increasing that gap. And while both Intel and NVIDIA have other, massive, sources of revenue to fall back on if their particular marketing strategies fail... AMD simply does not.

How a company is so quickly able to forget the strategy that returned it to relevance, boggles the mind. How a company that has never been an absolute performance leader, believed it somehow could become one in a single generation and across both product lines, is similarly confusing. It seems that AMD leadership has been infected with hubris, or maybe just greed... regardless, I think they need to eat some humble pie and soon, or the company could be eating bankruptcy pie later.

AMD, you had a winning strategy. How about, IDK, going back to it? What's so difficult about admitting you were wrong?

 

[enb141]

Personally. I think AMD should focus kn APUs and use them to destroy Nvidia in the xx60 class an below, it's quickly getting to the point where that's the case.

BTW, everybody seems to forget the emerging market of handheld which AMD pretty much created and now dominates and I can only imagine it'll grow in the future.


That's what 90% of consumers were doing already.....in a way, we brought this on, and I hope we enjoy the Nvidia monopoly we helped to create (not me though, I've never purchased a single Nvidia product in my life and I never will....it's a moral decision. BTW, just because I hate Nvidia doesn't not automatically mean I'm an AMD fan)

Yep AMD is pretty much the king standard in APU handheld, if nvidia (unlikely) or intel (highly likely) begin improving in that area, AMD will have troubles trying to sell APUs too.

I think you're wrong there, Intel won't end the duopoly, they'll just switch places with AMD and leave it completely intact....Nvidia seemingly has an unbreakable hold over the consumer base and unfortunately, it cannot simply be broken with an empirically better product and here's why:

If you study the research into consumer psychology you'll quickly learn thet the vast majority of consumers do NOT make rational choices based on comparable empirical data (PC enthusiasts wrongfully think they do because that's what enthusiasts do). They make completely irrational choices based on perception (no matter how divorced from reality that may be), how a product makes them "feel", on word of mouth even when the source of the recommendation cannot be verified to be correct, and in social pressure.

The social pressure and peer pressure is a big one. Consider the following hypothetical situation: someone new to PC gaming and new to the community will be immediately exposed to the opinions of others, now if they happen on cite like WCCFTech, they'll be exposed to pretty much nothing but rabid Nvidia fans who are constantly spamming things like "AMDumbs" or "AMDead", spamming the old, though long disproven, claims that Radeon runs hot and other artifacts leftover from the the 290x. Being that Nvidia has 90% marketshare, they're going to be exposed to these pressures pretty much anywhere they go. Depending on their own psychological makeup and personality, their desire to belong to the "in crowd" may have them simply buy Nvidoa without comparing a single benchmark. And don't underestimate the power of these parasocial relationships and the desire to be seen with the "winning side", because they have a profound impact on consumer decisions.

This is why even when AMD releases a GPU that is undeniably a better value, Nvidia still outsells them 10 to 1. Because to many, performance is not as important as the desire to be seen as "cool" or "a part of the crowd" to others.

*I'm not trying to denigrate anybody or demean anybody, I'm just relaying the fact that research into consumer psychology shows that the overwhelming majority of consumers make irrational choices based on intangible factors.


Nvidia steers the market, AMD just follows and usually just out of sheer desperation to survive. I would argue that the snti-consumer trends that emerge in the dGPU market are usually inspired by Nvidia.

I have to disagree with you, I tried AMD (twice) and in both cases I ended up hating them, I got a 6400 to replace my 1050 TI, the 6400 has way better GPU power, but their support is just trash, their drivers suck, so now I'm moving back to nvidia paying almost twice getting a 4060 but knowing that most of the issues AMD has, nvidia doesn't have.

 

[john_]

Finally. All those worshiping Nvidia, no matter what, all those years, will be asked to pay twice the price for their next GPU. They will be blaming AMD obviously while begging Intel to come and rescue them.

I have to disagree with you, I tried AMD (twice) and in both cases I ended up hating them, I got a 6400 to replace my 1050 TI, the 6400 has way better GPU power, but their support is just trash, their drivers suck, so now I'm moving back to nvidia paying almost twice getting a 4060 but knowing that most of the issues AMD has, nvidia doesn't have.

Damn.... it's already started!!!!!






PS @enb141 see it from a humorous perspective

 

[Chrispy_]

I don't want to jump to conclusions based on nothing more than a rumour, but if both AMD and Nvidia abandon the high-end market, will that finally mean that game developers have to optimise their code again?!

 

[Assimilator]

I don't want to jump to conclusions based on nothing more than a rumour, but if both AMD and Nvidia abandon the high-end market, will that finally mean that game developers have to optimise their code again?!

LOLno.

 

[Chrispy_]

LOLno.

sorry, I should have added a /s for clarity

These days the default game dev behaviour appears to be "use an existing engine poorly by ignoring all of the optimisations the engine offers, forget to pre-compile shader cache so that it stutters to all hell, and then launch it half-baked, incomplete, and needing a year of patches and a DLC to complete the main plot/story/campaign that us gamers used to get at launch"

 

[Chomiq]

BTW, everybody seems to forget the emerging market of handheld which AMD pretty much created and now dominates and I can only imagine it'll grow in the future.

The what now?

 

[Chrispy_]

The what now?

Presumable they mean the Steam Deck and ROG Ally, which together have increased the Linux marketshare from 2% to 3%. Meanwhile everyone else is making do with their GTX 1060 from 7 years ago, or they've just bought a PS5 instead.

 

[chrcoluk]

Great. Stuff gonna get even more expensive...

That was my thought as well, they just push up each part of the product stack.

 

[R0H1T]

Yep AMD is pretty much the king standard in APU handheld, if nvidia (unlikely) or intel (highly likely) begin improving in that area, AMD will have troubles trying to sell APUs too.

Dream on, maybe they'll sell you 12 year old Tegra (CPU) cores & charge half a kidney for it

There's a reason why only one of them is such a massive hit for consoles!

 

[enb141]

Dream on, maybe they'll sell you 12 year old Tegra (CPU) cores & charge half a kidney for it

There's a reason why only one of them is such a massive hit for consoles!

Nvidia has made a good deal with Nintendo, so that dream is not that far away from being a reality.

 

[R0H1T]

That was a good deal for Nvidia & Nintendo(?) not for the users! There's no better VFM hardware than AMD's in all their current consoles ~ that's just a fact.

 

[enb141]

Damn.... it's already started!!!!!






PS @enb141 see it from a humorous perspective

Yep, I didn't want to spend a lot of money (specially in march 2022) where nvidia cards were abysmally expensive, but now that cryptocurrencies are gone (for now), IA is the new "problem" for gamers, so this time I know I have to pay way more for a Nvidia card, so what a shame but is the ugly true now days.

CPUs are on debate, you either go Intel or AMD or if you are nuts and have Windows you get a Mac for about 3 times more expensive, but GPUs nvidia pretty much has no competition.

That was good deal for Nvidia & Nintendo(?) not for the users! There's no better VFM hardware than AMD in all their current consoles ~ that's just a fact.

Most users doesn't care about power, if you don't believe me, then look at Mac users, they are paying exorbitant prices for a computer that could cost 1/3 if they weren't worshiping mac os.

 

[R0H1T]

But Nvidia & Intel do won't they? You're claiming they'll outsell high volumes APU's to compete with AMD, when AMD is by far the value king? Do you also sell bridges for fun

MS, Sony won't be going to either unless they can match AMD's perf/$ or better it!

 

[enb141]

But Nvidia & Intel do won't they? You're claiming they'll outsell high volumes APU's to compete with AMD, when AMD is by far the value king? Do you also sell bridges for fun

MS, Sony won't be going to either unless they can match AMD's perf/$ or better it!

If that's true, then why Nintendo choose Nvidia?

Can you explain me that?

 

[bug]

Nvidia steers the market, AMD just follows and usually just out of sheer desperation to survive. I would argue that the snti-consumer trends that emerge in the dGPU market are usually inspired by Nvidia. AMD shareholders see what Nvidia is charging and don't understand why AMD doesn't do the same and that's because they're investors NOT PC ENTHUSIASTS. TThis is why AMD can't simply sell GPUs at cost or very cheaply to play the long game of marketshare, because investors expect nothing but short term profit every quarter. I think this is what people miss, because it's constantly repeated that "AMD shouldnjust sell GPUs cheaply to get marketshare". How do you explain that to investors? How do you explain that "we're not going to turn a profit for 4 years/2 generations in hopes that we'll gain marketshare"....see how well that goes over with the price of AMD stock. Corporations are designed to make return for investors, investors don't care how that's accomplished and they don't care about videocard buyers.

A common excuse, but a flawed argument. AMD had investors who backed them during their dark Bulldozer days. Those investors had no problem waiting years for Zen. Strategic investors will only retreat when you don't have a sound strategy in front of them, they don't invest based on flashy quarterly reports and marketing slides.