Why did we abandon hydrogen cars so quickly?

[Waldorf]

@Space Lynx
i have seen solar (city) ppl come to the house i rented for over 10y, and while the uniforms and ppl changed,
their sales pitch didnt, nor were they paying any attention to my responses, only pushing for the owner to get in touch with them,
with some not even having business cards/flyers, just a ripped out piece of paper.
any real professional company would never "allow" that (if they dont want to).
ignoring that, tesla installed solar on the last house i rented, mounting it on a roof not designed to handle more than shingles
(plain 18mm board), but not telling the owner (as he had no funds to get the roof done), and using screws so long,
they went all the way thru showing on the inside (of the roof).
thats someone not interested in more than the customers money.




cost for maintenance outside the US is lower, as no on does oil changes below 10-15K KM,
incl any american brands (even the ones made in the US), and most other fluids, besides windshield washer, are permanent,
or at least do +100K km before requiring checking/exchange.

short of a brand new car, no one i know (outside america), does more than brakes/plugs/filters/oil, and have no issues driving +200K KM,
and lots of it is city, not highway like in the US, meaning more wear.

+95% of any additives autozone/auto parts etc sell, do not exist outside america, nor are they required,
with many brands like porsche/lambo/McLaren etc having high perf/high revving engines,
getting stressed even more, than (regular) cars driving in N.A.

 

[AusWolf]

trucks are a necessary first step in any country, but upside to semis first is, once they figure-out wireless real-time charging for peak stuff like the winter package rush then they will finally offer cheap real-time charge during the off-season for everyone who suddenly don't need the massive peak-capacity for nine more months! expect new consumer cars to offer compatible charge rings soon AFTER THIS PEAK!

then,once this massive charge network started to add way-more peak off-season demand (things like multi-state bus/coach roads-trips, OR ELECTRIFIED Uber LOAD), then the demand will be self-driving,and stabilizing to be ready for things like federal regulation for rates (see: TVA for previous justification for nationalization of the NETWORK!/negotiating those rates for all those users!

https://www.tva.com/newsroom/press-releases/tva-board-holds-base-rates-steady-increases-customer-credits-for-fy23

once the entire interstate has massive wireless-plate electrical supplies, then nationalization of the network is the only efficient way-forward! HAT,ANDF ALSO THE ONLY WAY TO COMETE WITYH THE MASSIBVE GTESLA NETWOPRK

No vroom-vroom, self-driving... that future looks pretty bleak, I must say.

 

[Waldorf]

@AusWolf
pfft, we will all just become backwoods' ppl, building +50y old crate replicas, and making gasoline in small batches in a shed,
and drive at night...

 

[AusWolf]

@AusWolf
pfft, we will all just become backwoods' ppl, building +50y old crate replicas, and making gasoline in small batches in a shed,
and drive at night...

I already feel like one just by reading some comments here, lol.

 

[Waldorf]

lol, but seriously:
i dont mind new/green tech/changes, but i would rather see countries (like the US) improving mpg
requiring things like particle filters (diesel), or making/enforcing (off road) tuning illegal for street use,
instead of F1 dropping (high revving) V12/10s.

from some exceptions (919 evo, V4 hybrid), there isnt much that sounds anywhere close,
so while i wont miss (fuel burning) engines, i will miss the sound of +8 cylinders going above 6000 rpm.

while i "hate" ferrari, outside some other V12 running 19K rpm, this sounds the best.
F1 V12

 

[Space Lynx]

@Fry178 that's all well and good, but my original point had nothing to do with Tesla nor Solar City, companies come and go, I was specifically stating I think solar roofs are the future and make a lot of sense, I know a lot of people in England that have them and benefit from them.

we should probably get back to hydrogen cars though before mods shut down this thread.

 

[Waldorf]

ah, was just about the fact that those 7y didnt change anything, regarding solarcity/Teslas "behavior"

 

[defaultluser]

No vroom-vroom, self-driving... that future looks pretty bleak, I must say.

where did you get that impression? the wireless spec that research was working on would give you 400kw real-time per-car/truck per-lane

that's around 150 miles an hour sustained , and you can always use the included battery for higher peaks! I was simply imagining thew future where Tesla's supercharger are priced out-of-business by the future dreamworld of TVA wireless!

this is just the expected current-generation sustained power, but there's nothing stopping it getting higher for bigger trucks with next-gen dsps and AI

 

[dragontamer5788]

The first hydrogen-powered planes are taking flight

Aircraft retrofitted with hydrogen fuel cells could slash CO2 emissions from small planes — and potentially pave the way for hydrogen jets, new study…

www.canarymedia.com

Since the start of this year, small planes equipped with hydrogen fuel cells have made their first test flights over the U.S. West Coast and the English countryside. The aviation startups ZeroAvia and Universal Hydrogen now claim their novel aircraft will be ready to start flying commercially as early as 2025.

H2 airplane test flights have started. These aren't the 2-seater stunt-planes that Li-ion fans are talking about, but 19-seat bus planes that very well could be a niche business model.

In January, ZeroAvia first launched its 19-seat prototype plane at Cotswold Airport, a private airfield near the English village of Kemble surrounded by farms and grazing sheep. The blue-and-white Dornier 228 has now flown 10 times, hitting key milestones and enabling the company to begin the next phase of flight testing.

This ain't a Boeing 777, but its large enough to find a niche in some smaller flight-legs around the world.

 

[Shrek]

Ah, fuel cells, not Internal Combustion Engine

 

[dragontamer5788]

Ah, fuel cells, not Internal Combustion Engine

Yeah, I think there's some green ICE test flights too.

There's a lot of research in all sorts of H2 technologies. If H2-as-fuel is a dead-end, there's still the H2 + Syngas -> Kerosene ICE engines chemical path.

So lots of potential solutions here, all are "greener" than fossil fuels. Just gotta keep an open mind and see which one plays out as a success.

 

[Space Lynx]

well this was a bit depressing to read.

The dream of the first hydrogen rail network has died a quick death

Germany's Lower Saxony government started running 14 hydrogen trains in August 2022

qz.com

so basically just comes down to cost, and EV trains will be cheaper to operate. makes sense I guess, especially since Norway just discovered a crap ton of lithium in a new mine a few weeks ago. the market will be diverse enough that lithium batteries won't be able to be held hostage by any one country.

edit: the amount of phosphate that can be used to make solar panels, lithium, etc was 77 billion tons in the world, 50 billion held by Morocco, THAT was before the Norway mine discovery a few weeks ago. the mine in Norway is 70 billion alone. the world just doubled its known capacity. combine that with Norway's already wealthy oil industry.... so anyone from Norway want to adopt me? lmao

 

[InVasMani]

Just need that sweet sweet extra pure moon lithium.

 

[Space Lynx]

Just need that sweet sweet extra pure moon lithium.

combined with advances in solid state battery (if toyota is telling the truth) we may all be driving 800 mile range EV's very soon and very cheaply to boot.

 

[defaultluser]

combined with advances in solid state battery (if toyota is telling the truth) we may all be driving 800 mile range EV's very soon and very cheaply to boot.

can they offer that range boost for any old model,, or just the top-end? by the time they can mass-produce this,it'll be outdated, and overpriced

the highlander has the affordable car concept down, and that's shipping now

 

[AusWolf]

well this was a bit depressing to read.

The dream of the first hydrogen rail network has died a quick death

Germany's Lower Saxony government started running 14 hydrogen trains in August 2022

qz.com

so basically just comes down to cost, and EV trains will be cheaper to operate. makes sense I guess, especially since Norway just discovered a crap ton of lithium in a new mine a few weeks ago. the market will be diverse enough that lithium batteries won't be able to be held hostage by any one country.

edit: the amount of phosphate that can be used to make solar panels, lithium, etc was 77 billion tons in the world, 50 billion held by Morocco, THAT was before the Norway mine discovery a few weeks ago. the mine in Norway is 70 billion alone. the world just doubled its known capacity. combine that with Norway's already wealthy oil industry.... so anyone from Norway want to adopt me? lmao

What's an "EV train"? Nearly the entirety of Hungary's main railway lines have been high cable electric for decades.

 

[Space Lynx]

What's an "EV train"? Nearly the entirety of Hungary's main railway lines have been high cable electric for decades.

I have no idea, I was just quoting the article. My guess is it means what you just said. Hungary seems pretty smart.

 

[AusWolf]

I have no idea, I was just quoting the article. My guess is it means what you just said. Hungary seems pretty smart.

I don't think it's about being smart. I imagine the maintenance of an electric network is cheaper than buying diesel by the truckloads (even with certain individuals stealing the cables all the time, causing disruptions in the services).

 

[Space Lynx]

I don't think it's about being smart. I imagine the maintenance of an electric network is cheaper than buying diesel by the truckloads (even with certain individuals stealing the cables all the time, causing disruptions in the services).

if i was president of Hungary I would send my military to protect the cables, and post signs that say cable cutters will be attacked by military on sight.

no more cables get stolen after that. lmao

 

[defaultluser]

if i was president of Hungary I would send my military to protect the cables, and post signs that say cable cutters will be attacked by military on sight.

no more cables get stolen after that. lmao

most bored assholes will ignore them,and push-the-limits; the same sort of folk who feel fine shooting signs full-of bullet holed might take a few muffs before they learn to respect other laws proudly painted on signs!

for these fools,wireless charging in thee roads is the only hope,

 

[Shrek]

most bored assholes will ignore them,and push-the-limits; the same sort of folk who feel fine shooting signs full-of bullet holed might take a few muffs before they learn to respect other laws proudly painted on signs!

for these fools,wireless charging in thee roads is the only hope,

How does one avoid theft with wireless charging?

 

[ARF]

We have not abandoned the hydrogen cars. Everything will be

Fuel-cell maker expects sales jump as China promotes hydrogen-powered vehicles

Shanghai Sinofuelcell forecasts that its sales of hydrogen fuel cells for vehicles will more than double this year as Beijing promotes the technology as part of its pursuit of carbon neutrality by 2060.

www.scmp.com

China’s largest fuel-cell producer Sinofuelcell expects sales to double as government promotes hydrogen-powered vehicles​

• At least 2,500 vehicles using the company’s fuel cells will hit the road in 2023, company president says
• China has said it aims to have 1 million hydrogen-powered cars on its roads by 2030, served by 1,000 refuelling stations

Shanghai Sinofuelcell, mainland China’s largest producer of hydrogen fuel cells for vehicles, forecasts that its sales will more than double this year as Beijing promotes the technology as part of its pursuit of carbon neutrality by 2060.​

​

 

[defaultluser]

How does one avoid theft with wireless charging?

wireless charging uses huge embedded electromagnets - by-comparison,wired uses an exposed wire (might be lockable, but still very vulnerable to cutting, if you're collecting massive quantities of copper for the scrapyard!)

see this research program., which should yield way faster highway charging speeds in the next five to ten years, - and if you want it to be a success, just-TIE-It-in to existing Tennessee valley authority law (allows standardization of sources, building the network under interstates, and minimizing rates!)

Hands-free: Wireless charging system advances electric vehicle convenience | ORNL

www.ornl.gov

 

[dragontamer5788]

wireless charging uses huge embedded electromagnets

And those are made out of... more copper than a traditional power line. Much, much, much more copper. That's all bundled together easily for you to be easier to steal.

I mean, crime in the USA is pretty low all else considered. But some people are willing to steal Transformer boxes (because of the huge mass of copper they have), to make like $50 or something (at best) in scrap metal. Even if it causes the local neighborhood to lose power for an extended period of time.

But you're not going to really stop that kind of crime, not cheaply anyway. And larger masses of copper all bundled in locations by the road (unguarded) will only attract those kinds of thieves. Adding security is expensive but whatever, its a known problem and solvable in any case with enough money. Plenty of other masses of copper in the USA right now that thieves target in practice.

 

[ARF]

I mean, crime in the USA is pretty low all else considered.

I wish it was. Of course, it isn't given the scale of things, especially the size of the economy itself, and the population of over 300 million