Requesting help with reducing the heat of my Surface pro 9 using throttlestop.

[xoSto]

I am using a surface pro 9 as my daily laptop. It is very good for carrying to work. I also play some games on the side, so when I get home I plug into an Egpu and start playing. This laptop gets hot when im gaming and then it slows down significantly even when plugged into a 3080 and even when im just doing excel or making notes in onenote it will get hot and slow. Microsoft has locked down a lot of the features of throttlestop with the Core™ i7-1265U cpu, so there are a lot of things I cannot customize. However, there are still things that can help. I am asking those of you who are experienced with this program or the surface pro 9 to help me come up with good settings for my device to lower the heat, even if the cpu performance also is lowered. Because one thing that I have noticed is the device gets hot even when im not playing a game that should utilize even like 50% of the cpu. Sometimes I play very small pixel games like vampire survivors and that will heat up the cpu. So yeah, Please help me to reduce the heat of my laptop, and if necessary, the cpu speeds as well. Im going to include pictures of my throttlestop with my laptop unplugged from the egpu, and doing absolutely nothing in the background, only this browser tab.

After running a game for a few minutes the fps drops significantly and then i check TS to see something called power limit. device is extremely hot and I closed the game once I got the power limit warning

 

[unclewebb]

I closed the game once I got the power limit warning

PL1 lighting up red is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. Your CPU temperatures in your screenshot are perfectly fine. Your laptop has excellent cooling of the CPU. The chassis might get hot but the CPU is OK.

Were you originally using ThrottleStop with Virtualization Based Security (VBS) enabled? You should delete the ThrottleStop.INI file and reboot. A few things do not look correct in the FIVR window and this usually happens if you run ThrottleStop with VBS enabled. Post an updated FIVR screenshot after you do this.

I would check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right of the TPL window. This might help with some power limit throttling issues. Run a log file while trying to play a game and attach a log to your next post.

 

[xoSto]

I have not made any changes to anything. I have never enabled or disabled VBS and not sure what it is but I will search up how to disable it. My system is completely default and this is my first time downloading and using throttlestop. My explanation for how the Fivr window looks is because I believe microsoft locked down certain customizations, voltage being one of them. So anything to do with voltage might be weird.

PL1 lighting up red is just telling you why your CPU is throttling. Your CPU temperatures in your screenshot are perfectly fine. Your laptop has excellent cooling of the CPU. The chassis might get hot but the CPU is OK.

Were you originally using ThrottleStop with Virtualization Based Security (VBS) enabled? You should delete the ThrottleStop.INI file and reboot. A few things do not look correct in the FIVR window and this usually happens if you run ThrottleStop with VBS enabled. Post an updated FIVR screenshot after you do this.

I would check the MMIO Lock box which is near the top right of the TPL window. This might help with some power limit throttling issues. Run a log file while trying to play a game and attach a log to your next post.

After doing my research. I dont believe I can disable VBS. I use the device for business as well and it could be bad to disable a security feature. Additionally, from what ive seen by searching reddit, people with my laptop cant customize voltage regardless of VBS being on or off.

This is with mimo lock box checked

 

[unclewebb]

Intel removed CPU voltage control from their 12th Gen and newer processors like you have. Only the HX mobile processors and the desktop K series still allow voltage control. VBS enabled or disabled makes no difference. The voltage feature is Not Available.

If this is a business laptop then leave VBS and any safety features enabled.

Your screenshot looks pretty sad. BD PROCHOT throttling to only 399 MHz is excessive and rarely if ever necessary. With 11th Gen and older CPUs, BD PROCHOT adjustment was never locked so you could easily use ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT. With most 12th Gen and newer laptops, this is no longer possible. That is why ThrottleStop shows that BD PROCHOT is enabled and grayed out.

If checking the MMIO Lock box causes BD PROCHOT throttling then I guess that means you cannot use the MMIO Lock feature. Your laptop is well locked down (crippled). You have to accept whatever performance it is willing to give you. I am not a fan of overly locked down 12th Gen and newer laptops.

 

[xoSto]

Ok so am I basically out of luck?

I really hate what microsoft has done with this line of surface devices. Im still trying to make it work.

Intel removed CPU voltage control from their 12th Gen and newer processors like you have. Only the HX mobile processors and the desktop K series still allow voltage control. VBS enabled or disabled makes no difference. The voltage feature is Not Available.

If this is a business laptop then leave VBS and any safety features enabled.

Your screenshot looks pretty sad. BD PROCHOT throttling to only 399 MHz is excessive and rarely if ever necessary. With 11th Gen and older CPUs, BD PROCHOT adjustment was never locked so you could easily use ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT. With most 12th Gen and newer laptops, this is no longer possible. That is why ThrottleStop shows that BD PROCHOT is enabled and grayed out.

If checking the MMIO Lock box causes BD PROCHOT throttling then I guess that means you cannot use the MMIO Lock feature. Your laptop is well locked down (crippled). You have to accept whatever performance it is willing to give you. I am not a fan of overly locked down 12th Gen and newer laptops.

I want to clarify, I just want to use the power limit settings and the speed shift settings. Do I need to disable VBS for only thoe settings to work properly?

Can you help me with my power limit settings please? Are these settings good and working?

 

[unclewebb]

I have not done any hands on testing. The power limit settings all seem to work whether VBS is enabled or not.

You seem to be on the right track. Reducing the power limits will reduce heat. It also reduces performance. This should allow you to tweak your computer so you get the right balance between performance and heat.

Windows 11 usually manages the Speed Shift EPP values just fine. If you check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop, you might create a situation where ThrottleStop is writing one value to the CPU's EPP register while Windows might be writing a different value to the same register. Whoever writes to this register faster will be in control of the CPU. This is usually not a good thing to be doing. Is there any reason you need to be checking this box in ThrottleStop? I usually recommend not checking the Speed Shift EPP box.

I really hate what microsoft has done

I think Intel is mostly to blame. You can give Microsoft a kick if you want to. They are are from innocent. Apple laptops generate lots of sales revenue. The PC world decided to follow their lead. Intel and PC manufacturers thought it would be a good idea to produce laptops that are not user adjustable. This works for Apple so why not try doing the same.

A few minor adjustments could make your laptop 100% more user friendly but all of the important adjustments have been disabled. Sad world.

 

[xoSto]

I have not done any hands on testing. The power limit settings all seem to work whether VBS is enabled or not.

You seem to be on the right track. Reducing the power limits will reduce heat. It also reduces performance. This should allow you to tweak your computer so you get the right balance between performance and heat.

Windows 11 usually manages the Speed Shift EPP values just fine. If you check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop, you might create a situation where ThrottleStop is writing one value to the CPU's EPP register while Windows might be writing a different value to the same register. Whoever writes to this register faster will be in control of the CPU. This is usually not a good thing to be doing. Is there any reason you need to be checking this box in ThrottleStop? I usually recommend not checking the Speed Shift EPP box.


I think Intel is mostly to blame. You can give Microsoft a kick if you want to. They are are from innocent. Apple laptops generate lots of sales revenue. The PC world decided to follow their lead. Intel and PC manufacturers thought it would be a good idea to produce laptops that are not user adjustable. This works for Apple so why not try doing the same.

A few minor adjustments could make your laptop 100% more user friendly but all of the important adjustments have been disabled. Sad world.

Regarding the speed shift, Yes I kinda need it but not 100%. I want to increase the number for speedshift to like 255 for extreme power saving when im on battery.

How do i tell which speedshift value windows is using

 

[Che0063]

Regarding the speed shift, Yes I kinda need it but not 100%. I want to increase the number for speedshift to like 255 for extreme power saving when im on battery.

How do i tell which speedshift value windows is using

On Surface devices, the power mode significantly affects the speedshift EPP (accessible via Settings > System > Power and Battery). You can change the power mode, and see windows modifying the speedshift EPP in Throttlestop > FIVR. This only occurs using the Balanced power plan, but both TS and Windows will fight over the value. If you don't want windows to change the EPP, you have to use either Power Saver plan or High Performance plan.

Your power limit settings are not the issue here - Microsoft's Surface devices have a skin temp sensor on the back of the tablet that, if it gets too hot, will trigger BD-PROCHOT which forces CPU to lowest speed available. So you need to prevent the back of the tablet from getting too hot. You can do this two ways:
1. You can buy a fan and point it at the back of your tablet (which drastically reduces the skin temp and helps massively with performance),
3. Or, you can set the windows power plan to Maximum Performance. Assuming your laptop is mostly at default settings, doing so may trigger the Surface Integration Service to change the fan profile to a much more aggressive setting which can eject more heat from the back. At least, that's what happens to the fan on my my Surface Book.