DRAM yellow light problem

[felipe.carv]

Yeah, I've seen that crap on more than one support page. RAM market rotation isn't so much the issue here, as some people just don't believe in doing their job thoroughly. By rights, there should be a QVL for every series processor that board supports. Someone didn't bother to make sure one existed for Matisse or 3000-series.

I see what you're talking about. Hopefully, the 3rd-gen QVL for that board isn't much different. Strange that I specifically Googled the BR version and it did not go to that page.

Yeah, thats my luck with things the whole life hahah
Thats the brazilian page of the product with all info

 

[INSTG8R]

but as far as I'm aware G.Skill only uses Samsung dies on DDR4.

And you“d be wrong I have “nice” GSkill Trident Z CL16 3600 and it’s Hynix. GSkill has a LOT of SKUs “some” are Samsung B -Die.

 

[wNotyarD]

And you“d be wrong I have “nice” GSkill Trident Z CL16 3600 and it’s Hynix. GSkill has a LOT of SKUs “some” are Samsung B -Die.

Glad to be proven wrong, though I didn't say exclusively B-die. I thought they used Samsung D or E-die for lesser kits.

 

[felipe.carv]

That's quite Ryzen friendly, when we say test the ram we mean test one stick at a time in all four slots, then the other stick in all four slots, then both at once in the two combinations (0+1, 1+2, 2+3, 3+4)

It's not Gskill as a brand that's good for ryzen at all - it's the IC's used. Never EVER go by brand for a measure of quality or compatibility, it's always per product.
In this case it's simply that it's using even timings which is what ryzen works best with.



Can you post photos of the setup? Monitor connected to the GPU, not the onboard outputs?

You did mention the whole powering on sometimes then failing a few times routine which is described as a cold boot problem - that's usually caused by devices being 'cold' as in drained of power rather than heat itself, but sometimes it IS caused by the temperature with things like failing capacitors.

This could be BIOS settings, or power supply related - but compound issues exist and it can be more than one problem at a time so you can never truly rule out the things you've tested until the systems fully working.

Also tried Display port and HDMI; than CPU fan is off because I cleaned the thermal paste to put it more (also tried without the cpu fan and the screen showed a black screen with some messages, ne of them like a alert of the fact the cpu fan was disconnected, and then, black screen); changed the GPU and SSD on others connectors also; the other RAM stick is above the cabinet because I was testing with one stick at all slots)

 

[wNotyarD]

Redragon? Alrite, this opens another can of worms. Not a good PSU at all (Tier E), and may be the culprit here.
For how long do you have it?

 

[felipe.carv]

Redragon? Alrite, this opens another can of worms. Not a good PSU at all (Tier E), and may be the culprit here.
For how long do you have it?

shit haha
since october 2020, never presented any problem and at that time it seemed to be a good choice, from what I read back then.

 

[An0maly_76]

Redragon? Alrite, this opens another can of worms. Not a good PSU at all (Tier E), and may be the culprit here.
For how long do you have it?

shit haha
since october 2020, never presented any problem and at that time it seemed to be a good choice, from what I read back then.

And don't try that again with no CPU cooler. Could definitely make things worse than they are. The cooler type is another concern.
Which one do you have? Stock Wraith are not all that adequate for the 3600 / 3600X. Will they do the job? Yes, but not particularly well under heavy load.

 

[felipe.carv]

And don't try that again with no CPU cooler. Could definitely make things worse than they are. The cooler type is another concern.
Which one do you have? Stock Wraith are not all that adequate for the 3600 / 3600X. Will they do the job? Yes, but not particularly well under heavy load.


View attachment 310523

Yes, wraith. But I don't do heavy use. Temperatures always seems okay.

 

[An0maly_76]

Yes, wraith. But I don't do heavy use. Temperatures always seems okay.

What exactly is okay? They throttle at 95C but the cooler they run the better. I have a Scythe Mugen 5S on a 3600X running PBO and it peaks around 60C. I consider consistent 70-75+ to be a problem, as my 12C / 24T 5900X peaks at 70-72C with an original (pre-S) Mugen 5.

The Wraith has been said to be somewhat inadequate for the 6C / 12T processors, with the 5600X running at a toasty 80C in most testing, that's why I ask.

 

[felipe.carv]

What exactly is okay? They throttle at 95C but the cooler they run the better. I have a Scythe Mugen 5S on a 3600X running PBO and it peaks around 60C. I consider consistent 70-75+ to be a problem, as my 12C / 24T 5900X peaks at 70-72C with basically the same cooler.

The Wraith has been said to be somewhat inadequate for the 6C / 12T processors, with the 5600X running at a toasty 80C in most testing, that's why I ask.

I remember people saying this about the 5600X, but everyone also said that it was ok for the 3500. Gonna keep a eye on that, my New RAM is gonna arrive today, will update here soon.

 

[An0maly_76]

I remember people saying this about the 5600X, but everyone also said that it was ok for the 3500. Gonna keep a eye on that, my New RAM is gonna arrive today, will update here soon.

Just saying, the 3600 is Zen 2, the 5600 is Zen 3. Other than the obvious differences between Zen 2 / Zen 3, the 5600 is just a newer version of the 3600. And both have been known to run hot with the Wraith Stealth cooler, which I believe is what comes with the 3600. Even a cheap Spire might be worth it if you can get a good price. But in your market, you might better off with a Thermalright Peerless Assassin or similar.

 

[wNotyarD]

Just saying, the 3600 is Zen 2, the 5600 is Zen 3. Other than the obvious differences between Zen 2 / Zen 3, the 5600 is just a newer version of the 3600. And both have been known to run hot with the Wraith Stealth cooler, which I believe is what comes with the 3600. Even a cheap Spire might be worth it if you can get a good price. But in your market, you might better off with a Thermalright Peerless Assassin or similar.

No Thermalright here, and any dual tower already costs too much to justify when cooling a Ryzen 5.
The cheaper units I would consider on our local market, which aren't Chinese (e.g. Aigo, ALSEYE), would be the Deepcool AG/AK400 or the current variants of the venerable CM Hyper 212.

 

[felipe.carv]

No Thermalright here, and any dual tower already costs too much to justify when cooling a Ryzen 5.
The cheaper units I would consider on our local market, which aren't Chinese (e.g. Aigo, ALSEYE), would be the Deepcool AG/AK400 or the current variants of the venerable CM Hyper 212.

Great tips, chinese markets are in a bit cloudy tax situation right now. But brazilian market is better than used to be for fans

 

[wNotyarD]

Great tips, chinese markets are in a bit cloudy tax situation right now. But brazilian market is better than used to be for fans

Some Chinese models are readily available at Pichau, at least. Not saying they aren't good, but they aren't proven.

 

[felipe.carv]

The new Ram worked (i got dram yellow light, then cpu red, then off, then they repeat the same order, and the bios open)
How should I configure the bios to keep everything stable? The RAMs are at 2133Mhz right now.
And should I update the bios to the 4802 version first? This version is already at my pen drive.

 

[wNotyarD]

The new Ram worked (i got dram yellow light, then cpu red, then off, then they repeat the same order, and the bios open)
How should I configure the bios to keep everything stable? The RAMs are at 2133Mhz right now.
And should I update the bios to the 4802 version first? This version is already at my pen drive.

A BIOS update shouldn't hurt. As you use Matisse, you shouldn't lose CPU support. And if the BIOS changelog along the way mentions "improved memory support" or something along those lines, all the better.
About your RAM, ideally you should just enable the XMP profile and stress test it. I personally would do so with TestMem5 running 1usmus profile. If it passes, no further action needed.

 

[felipe.carv]

Updated the bios, changed the DOCP profile, but windoes won't open.
It kind stuck on the "Diagnosing PC" screen after some seconds on the "preparing automatic repair" screen
Maybe something with the TPM? I remember changed something about it to instal windows 11, and now TMP is enbaled on bios.
EDIT: changed back to DOCP off and the windows started

 

[An0maly_76]

No Thermalright here, and any dual tower already costs too much to justify when cooling a Ryzen 5.
The cheaper units I would consider on our local market, which aren't Chinese (e.g. Aigo, ALSEYE), would be the Deepcool AG/AK400 or the current variants of the venerable CM Hyper 212.

Agree to disagree. Maybe the 3600 being 65W vs the 3600X being 95W negates that in this scenario, but I think dual tower justifies the cost on most anything with 6 or more cores. I've seen a few tests that show 10C lower temps with a tower cooler with a 3600, even OC'd to 4.2.

That said, I've seen 20C difference between a 6C 3600X and 12C 5900X with the Mugen 5 in the same case (4000X), both running PBO. The Scythe Shuriken or Big Shuriken, Noctua NH-L12S (case-dependent) or NH-D12L would be a good choice if available in OP's market.

OP, if your temps are consistently below 60-63C under load, I would say you're okay for now. But consider one of the coolers I've mentioned if necessary.

Updated the bios, changed the DOCP profile, but windoes won't open. It kind stuck on the "Diagnosing PC" screen after some seconds on the "preparing automatic repair" screen
Maybe something with the TPM? I remember changed something about it to instal windows 11, and now TMP is enbaled on bios.
EDIT: changed back to DOCP off and the windows started

The new Ram worked (i got dram yellow light, then cpu red, then off, then they repeat the same order, and the bios open)
How should I configure the bios to keep everything stable? The RAMs are at 2133Mhz right now.
And should I update the bios to the 4802 version first? This version is already at my pen drive.

I wouldn't bother updating the BIOS unless it's absolutely necessary. Some BIOS updates are known to remove previous support for certain things to "make room" for other things, and it can create an entirely new problem by removing support for something you need it for. MSI actually had a gaffe where a new update removed Zen 2 support entirely. If it's running, I'd leave it be, but if you want to update it, be sure and keep the BIOS update you're coming from available in case of such issues.

As mentioned, some DIMMs are more stable with DOCP disabled, and it doesn't affect performance horrendously unless it were dropping from like, 4800 to 2133 (if there even is a DIMM like that).

I think timings may have something to do with this in some cases. The 16-18-18-36 timings Asus stated for my Patriot Viper Blackout 4 required manual timings settings, and still caused some stability issues. The BIOS itself popped up its own wonky 20-20-20-40 timings, but I've found they run best at their base 2400 with no DOCP at all. So your new DIMMs may or may not be stable using DOCP on your specific board with the recommended timings.

The only way to find out is to enable DOCP, and see what timings the BIOS tries to use. If they're different from what the board manufacturer recommends, try those recommendations first, then what the BIOS suggests. If neither are stable, I'd just disable DOCP and let it ride. It's not that likely to make that big of a difference.

So you have full functionality of the system now?

 

[felipe.carv]

Agree to disagree. Maybe the 3600 being 65W vs the 3600X being 95W negates that in this scenario, but I think dual tower justifies the cost on most anything with 6 or more cores. I've seen a few tests that show 10C lower temps with a tower cooler with a 3600, even OC'd to 4.2.

That said, I've seen 20C difference between a 6C 3600X and 12C 5900X with the Mugen 5 in the same case (4000X), both running PBO. The Scythe Shuriken or Big Shuriken, Noctua NH-L12S (case-dependent) or NH-D12L would be a good choice if available in OP's market.

OP, if your temps are consistently below 60-63C under load, I would say you're okay for now. But consider one of the coolers I've mentioned if necessary.




I wouldn't bother updating the BIOS unless it's absolutely necessary. Some BIOS updates are known to remove previous support for certain things to "make room" for other things, and it can create an entirely new problem by removing support for something you need it for. MSI actually had a gaffe where a new update removed Zen 2 support entirely. If it's running, I'd leave it be, but if you want to update it, be sure and keep the BIOS update you're coming from available in case of such issues.

As mentioned, some DIMMs are more stable with DOCP disabled, and it doesn't affect performance horrendously unless it were dropping from like, 4800 to 2133 (if there even is a DIMM like that).

I think timings may have something to do with this in some cases. The 16-18-18-36 timings Asus stated for my Patriot Viper Blackout 4 required manual timings settings, and still caused some stability issues. The BIOS itself popped up its own wonky 20-20-20-40 timings, but I've found they run best at their base 2400 with no DOCP at all. So your new DIMMs may or may not be stable using DOCP on your specific board with the recommended timings.

The only way to find out is to enable DOCP, and see what timings the BIOS tries to use. If they're different from what the board manufacturer recommends, try those recommendations first, then what the BIOS suggests. If neither are stable, I'd just disable DOCP and let it ride. It's not that likely to make that big of a difference.

So you have full functionality of the system now?

I turned off the DOCP profile and did the testmem5 with 1usmus config (2133 Mhz default) and found no error.
Now I just did the test again with DOCP profile on and changed the frequency to 2933 (one frequency below the 3200 Mhz that doesn't pass the "Disgnosing your PC" screen) and also didn't found any errors.
Gonna keep this for now.
And gonna watch the CPU if goes above the 60°C mark.

 

[An0maly_76]

I turned off the DOCP profile and did the testmem5 with 1usmus config (2133 Mhz default) and found no error.
Now I just did the test again with DOCP profile on and changed the frequency to 2933 (one frequency below the 3200 Mhz that doesn't pass the "Disgnosing your PC" screen) and also didn't found any errors.
Gonna keep this for now.
And gonna watch the CPU if goes above the 60°C mark.

Schweet. Sounds like it's fixed then.

 

[wNotyarD]

Agree to disagree. Maybe the 3600 being 65W vs the 3600X being 95W negates that in this scenario, but I think dual tower justifies the cost on most anything with 6 or more cores. I've seen a few tests that show 10C lower temps with a tower cooler with a 3600, even OC'd to 4.2.

That said, I've seen 20C difference between a 6C 3600X and 12C 5900X with the Mugen 5 in the same case (4000X), both running PBO. The Scythe Shuriken or Big Shuriken, Noctua NH-L12S (case-dependent) or NH-D12L would be a good choice if available in OP's market.

OP, if your temps are consistently below 60-63C under load, I would say you're okay for now. But consider one of the coolers I've mentioned if necessary.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but the issue is local pricing. Dual tower coolers aren't that common, and those available carry a hefty price premium (even over decent single tower from the same brand). E.g. Deepcool AK620, costing ~R$500/U$100, against ~R$150/U$30 of the AK400.
I'm not saying getting an amazing cooler for Ryzen 5's is bad (I run mine with a TT 240 AIO), but it's somewhat a diminishing return that must be taken into consideration against cost in a complicated market.

Taking a further look, using the AK series mayhaps was a worst case scenario for the comparison. The AG620 vs AG400 is less aggravating: R$360 vs R$130.

 

[Mussels]

but as far as I'm aware G.Skill only uses Samsung dies on DDR4.
I'm unsure about the issue with odd CAS timings. Isn't there something (geardown mode?) that rounds it up to the nearest even value?

Never rely on rules like that - they always get broken sooner or later.
According to this thread on HardwareLuxx (which is possibly outdated)they've been mixing and matching the NAND manufacturer within a single model since 2016

[Overview] - The Ultimate HARDWARELUXX Samsung 8Gb B-The List - All Manufacturers (21/02/23) | Hardwareluxx

This is why QVL lists are incomplete and problematic, as more than one RAM company will sell kits of RAM that match the primary timings but are entirely different otherwise - and you're screwed for compatibility and testing when they do this. Corsair are extremely bad with their 'revisions' where they release multiple variants from day one.



GDM only works above 2667, which means it doesnt apply when XMP Is off on most kits. That's where issues occur with some systems and 4 sticks of some kits, where they can't get a stable boot with more than 1 stick and require XMP enabled before adding the rest (anything resetting the BIOS like a flat battery will then cause looping issues)

I turned off the DOCP profile and did the testmem5 with 1usmus config (2133 Mhz default) and found no error.
Now I just did the test again with DOCP profile on and changed the frequency to 2933 (one frequency below the 3200 Mhz that doesn't pass the "Disgnosing your PC" screen) and also didn't found any errors.
Gonna keep this for now.
And gonna watch the CPU if goes above the 60°C mark.

2933 is the highest my 3700x/x370 system will do stable as well, it keeps resetting the BIOS at 3200 on cold boots.

I wouldn't bother updating the BIOS unless it's absolutely necessary. Some BIOS updates are known to remove previous support for certain things to "make room" for other things, and it can create an entirely new problem by removing support for something you need it for.

This problem was almost exclusive to MSI, AMD released newer AGESA with universal support and everyone but MSI rolled with that - MSI wanted to release new MAX motherboards with a larger BIOS chip, and deliberately made a problem so they could profit from the solution.

Apart from rare issues, it's generally worth the udpates - the x370 system mentioned above couldnt even do 2667 stable on launch day with two sticks, now it's at 2933 with four (same RAM, too)

 

[felipe.carv]

2933 is the highest my 3700x/x370 system will do stable as well, it keeps resetting the BIOS at 3200 on cold boots.

I like AMDs cost benefit ratio, but those kind of things make me discouraged to buy from them when I upgrade my setup.

 

[Mussels]

I like AMDs cost benefit ratio, but those kind of things make me discouraged to buy from them when I upgrade my setup.

The exact same problems exist on intel as well.
*EVERY* generation of CPU has a maximum speed to it's RAM support

The difference is that budget intel platforms BIOS used to lock you so you can't even try higher speeds while AMD allowed you to try overclocking to get it working.
This led to "why work on intel, but not AMD" problems a lot (because intel locked the speed slower)



As for Intels modern RAM support, it's chaotic AF.
Board makers claim speeds higher than the CPU can support, intel changes to 'gear 2' for better compatibility at the cost of losing performance instead of gaining it.

Random pick from google here - asus B760 (Ended up being DDR4)
ROG STRIX B760-A GAMING WIFI D4 | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com)

DDR4 3400 and above are listed as "OC" with only 3200 and below guaranteed on 13th gen. That's key here, as automatic settings may not work.

The RAM speeds supported vary for every CPU type (each generation, K and non K)
According to Asus, a 12th gen non-K CPU Can run DDR4 5133 RAM at 5066, while a 13th gen can only do 4400

Get a 13th gen K and it can do 5333

 

[ir_cow]

Don't forget @Mussels that none K CPU have a locked SA (1v) and pretty much are useless for memory beyond the official supported spec by Intel.