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2500K and GA-Z77-D3H: Entry level Overclocking from 2012

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,412 (7.75/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
A friend of mine came around with some old water cooling hardware and wanted to build up a retro gaming PC with modern cooling and an SSD, originally intending to SLI two of his GTX 280 cards.
Since I still had my 2500k and motherboard from many years before (It went to family who returned it after upgrading a decade later) I hunted down some matching sticks of RAM from another friend, and let my friend know I was good to go to get started the next day. The board I had didn't support SLI, so he went home to see if he had anything else to try and use.

He never messaged me back as he'd passed away in his sleep that night from heart failure.
He wasn't even 30.


Time passed by and I decided it was time to finish off this build and overclock the crap out of this CPU, even into unsafe voltages and temperatures... and review an old motherboard from back in the era when I first met my friend and the dumb thing's we'd do at LAN parties back then - we blew up plenty of fuse boxes and managed enough power draw once to set the actual powerlines to the building sparking in the rain.
The actual parts he gave me were really mixed with different tubing sizes, brands, and not enough of anything - but I made it all work and added what was missing.


Intel 2500K that i've been keeping in storage for the last 10 years, when I moved to a shiny 4770k.
Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H - New CMOS battery and thermal pads
2x4GB DDR3 1333
2x4GB DDR3 1600
Team GX1 1TB SATA SSD
Corsair HX750i PSU
MSI GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X / Gigabyte RTX 3070 8GB
Thermaltake P3 Pro TG case
Corsair Commander Core XT (Fan control + Temp probes) - This turned out to not be needed on this board as it has very accurate VRM thermal sensors.
Elmor Labs USB-C PMD Power meter (measures EPS+PCI-E power consumption)

And a custom cooling loop that exists for the special reasons stated in the introduction.

My camera really doesn't like my LED lighting here and it's doom and gloom weather so I've used some stock photos here - the stock ones are low res with some component identifying labels removed.
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The Feature set is not exciting at all by 2023 standards, but it's also interesting to see how little has changed. Even a decade ago we had SATA 3, USB3, PCI-E 3.0 and very similar motherboard layouts to today.
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The CPU: My old 2500K that achieved a 5.2GHz overclock on air, back when it was new.
Using this CPU has a negative of running the system at PCI-E 2.0, which is probably the only reason they aged out when they did - these are the best overclocking CPU's to ever exist and the performance gains were simply insane back then, reaching levels no stock CPU could reach for a very very long time.
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I have a new test bench setup, at this stage I didn't have a fancy backdrop for photos. What I did have was an utterly chaotic mess of watercooling components my friend left me, that were quite 'fun' to get installed.
The pump block leaked as did the CPU block and I had only a single spare 120mm fan - changes had to be made, obviously.
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(Pics of the completed setup coming soon)

Understanding VRM's and how they work takes an engineering degree I do not have.
I can get the spreadsheets, but if any readers have information to share that they can back up with external sources - please do.
This board is old enough and has an unusual VRM layout - Gigabyte have slapped lowside FETs absolutely all over the place with some VRM doublers in an unusual asymmetrical setup, I'll need to probe the board with a multimeter to identify the phases and honestly, it's not worth the effort for a one-off review and overclock attempt.

12 years on, the VRM thermal pads were still soft and in working order. I did replace them with Arctic cooling 1mm thermal pads but these are still worth recognizing as long-term quality.
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This board uses an IR3564 driver that supports 4+1 or 3+2 VRM setups, with at least one IR3598 doubler to K03B7 high side FET's and K0393 low side FETs.
It has three pairs of one K03B7 with two K0393, and then one pair of one each. Some markings have worn off over the last 10 years, making it hard to be certain of some of them.
It looks like a "3+1" setup with doublers on the CPU phases.
The K03B7 have a 30A power rating and a 'power temperature derating' showing that their wattage capabilities decrease massively as temperatures increase, with a maximum temperature of 150c but losing half their power capabilities at around the 75c mark. These should be used to push 12V down to 5V for the second set of FETs to lower even further to the CPU.

The K0393 have a 40A rating and overall very similar stats to the K03B7 with a similar temperature curve. Safe to 150c, but best kept under 75c - or lower.
If this is a doubled 3+1 setup, that would provide 6x 40A (240A) to the CPU at 25c, or half that (120A) at 75c.
They have "channel dissipation" at 30W and 40W matching their amps, so it seems they're fairly lossy and put out a lot of heat.
During the later overclock testing they reached 82C with just 65A of power draw, so it's likely to assume they'd thermal throttle long before reaching that theoretical 120A limit.

One bug I've encountered now on 5 separate occasions (All intel 2nd/3rd/4th gen) is that security updates from intel via windows update somehow corrupt BIOS on these older motherboards.
After a Windows 10 Update Today Overclocking is lost. WTF Microsoft and Intel??? | TechPowerUp Forums
This will never get officially fixed as these systems don't meet the requirements for 10/11.

After windows is installed and updated, you'll reboot and get stuck in the BIOS splash screen - nothing will get the system to POST other than triggering Gigabytes dual BIOS feature to load from the backup BIOS.
You can trigger the backup BIOS by pressing and holding the power button until the system powers on, then off, then release and press normally.
The other method is power and reset at the same time, or by shorting pins 1 and 6 on the primary BIOS chip while powering on the PC (you need three arms for this)

Once reset to the backup BIOS, I could use EZ-flash to update the BIOS and everything behaved normally again - but it may return every time a fresh windows install is ran on these systems.

The above issue aside, BIOS from this era is very similar to the modern designs except it's rather unpolished. Some settings work with mouse, some work with the enter key, some only work with being typed directly into, and yet again others only with the + and - keys.
Many settings are renamed into brand specific names or poor translations. "System Agent" voltage for memory overclocking is instead renamed "IMC" and other things like that throughout the BIOS. It's a good thing to keep in mind vs a modern BIOS, where things are a lot better named and unified between brands.

Any errors or failed overclock settings result in a very fast boot to a 'Failed POST' screen that lets you go into the BIOS and adjust settings without losing what you had changed or like some modern boards will do, booting with stock settings and not informing you leading to thinking your custom settings applied when they did not.
This recovery takes about 5 seconds from the power button press and is overall extremely fast to use, it's definitely nicer than most modern boards achieve.

The "Simple" mode is a terrible gimmick, it has a mouse feature to let you select BIOS items... but they don't correspond to anything in reality. Clicking a southbridge heatsink would give you settings related to Dual BIOS which is in an entirely different section of the board, so this misleads users as to what parts of the board actually do specific tasks.

Despite being 12 years old at the time of writing, the board supports UEFI and Secureboot - the only thing missing for windows 11 support is a TPM 2.0 module.
This system seems to slightly over-volt from what the user has set, being an entry level board that's entirely acceptable as a form of LLC (load line calibration)

Screenshots failed to save on the USB drive I was using at the time, I took some photos instead to show how similar it is to a modern BIOS in 'advanced' mode.
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While "simple" mode was a misleading, useless mess - that image isn't even the board in use, and BIOS chips are not under heatsinks on any board.
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Using Ventoy to install Windows 11 from a USB 3.2x2 NVME drive (10Gb/s) simplifies things greatly, I have ISO files for Windows 10 and 11 as well as Macrium recovery and Linux Mint on the drive and i highly recommend this setup to anyone, even from a cheap USB flash drive as a recovery media.
Ventoy bypasses the secure boot and TPM requirements, meaning windows 11 installed without complaint on this older machine. The entire install process took about 3 minutes, before I was at the desktop.

As long as you use the "optional updates" feature in windows update, all drivers are installed and the board works perfectly.
It's easy to forget how long we've had SATA III and USB 3.0, since systems of this era were massively held back by mechanical hard drives - back in the windows 7 era, you'd need to use the USB 2.0 ports and install SATA drivers at the first stage of installing the OS.

Installing windows 7 on this machine would take several hours of installing, updates, reboots, updates, reboots, updates, reboots, more reboots, yet more reboots, and manually hunting drivers for every piece of hardware.
Windows 10 and 11 make this incredibly easy, and it's easy for people who never dealt with older operating systems to not be aware of that.

Debloated, windows 11 used 1.4GB of RAM. Installing an Nvidia GTX 1080 changed that clean boot to 1.8GB, using a debloated NVCleaninstall driver.
Keep that in mind next time you blame windows 10/11 for being bloated - 400MB of RAM lost installing an Nvidia card, let alone all the extra bloat from Geforce experience.


Windows 11 got confused by the CPU overclock (older versions of windows did as well) resulting in some fantastic and utterly incorrect values such as 8.20GHz clock speeds in task manager, instead of it's real 4.4GHz at the time.

If i listed every step involved in testing and re-testing this we'd be here a very long time, so I'll skip to the combinations that ran stable. Getting even this limited set of testing took four days, with a known CPU.

Despite it's age and low price tag, this board has some quite decent and accurate sensors. The VRM temperature readings always came out hotter than my physical sensors, meaning they were genuinely placed in the hottest spots of the components.
Many newer boards don't give you VRM sensor readings or wildly inaccurate ones, let alone two like this board does (One for the CPU 'VR Loop 1' and one for the RAM 'VR Loop 2') and this is something I definitely want to see exposed in every board.

Power consumption climbs massively when overclocking is involved but not just in the CPU - VRM's have a 'goldilocks zone' and once they pass out of that they start to lose a lot more power as heat, leaving a user with a well cooled CPU and a burning hot VRM.
Overheating VRM's can either result in system instability, or with modern CPU designs the CPU will 'sleep' briefly (for as short as 1ms) until the VRM's output the correct voltage again - this results in 'clock stretching' and stuttering performance.
Some VRM's are rated to high temperatures like the ones in this system, but just because it's stable at 120c doesn't mean it cant melt the plastic off your EPS power cable should they touch and risk an electrical short.

R23:
Stock: 2552
Stock + RAM @1866: 2697 (5.6% faster)
CPU OC 4.5GHz 1.375v 3332 (30.5% faster!)
5.0GHz: 3597 1.45v (40.9% faster)
5.3GHz + 1866 (1.60v!) 3970 (55.5% faster than stock)

Technically if a game uses under 4 threads this CPU is now faster than an i9. Not all of them, but the 7980XE at least.
Screenshot 2023-09-09 050620.png

This is a bigger difference than you get between most CPU upgrades.
A Ryzen 1800x to 5800x is a good example, where it has the same core count (8 with SMT) and performance went up by 69% - with 3 architectures of improvements behind that gain (Zen, Zen+, Zen2, Zen3) and here we are achieving a similar gain overclocking on an entry level motherboard.
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So many sensors! HWinfo has many sensors that all measure the CPU's power, and they all read different values.

This is the different readings when running the stock CPU + 1866MT/s RAM test, and why it matters to always check where readings are from and compare only with the same reading, for accurate results.
These are all from HWinfo, but different sensors

i5-2500K sensors:
CPU Package Power: 69.52W
IA Cores power: 64.3W
GA-Z77-D3H Sensors:
Power (POUT): 63.5W
Power (Input): 75.5W
Elmor Labs PMD-USB
EPS1: 81.4W

At any given time various sensors can read from 64W to 81W as some gets lost to heat each step of the way.
This is why motherboard reviews should use readings from the EPS input to compare their efficiency, while CPU reviews should use their internal power metrics so a motherboard doesn't skew their results. - You cant blame a CPU for high power consumption if the board is at fault.
RAM overclocking drastically increased the power consumption at the EPS socket here, probably due to DDR3's higher voltages. (1.70v for 1866)

CPU Speed | CPU Package power | VR Loop 1 Input | EPS
Stock 3.4GHz: 53W | 54.25W | 60.8W
Stock 3.4 + 1866: 69.52W | 75.5W | 81.4W
4.5GHz: 85.78W / 103W / 109W
5.0GHz: 95W/114W/141W (The efficiency drop is severe here)
5.3: 103/198W/203W

The wattages at the EPS connector blew right out here the cable was definitely warm to the touch as well, since this board only had a four pin EPS connector.
As soon as we passed what the VRM's could easily handle the amount wasted as heat skyrocketed. A better motherboard would not have done this.
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"Current out" on the VRM reading was at 65.5A with the 4.5GHz overclock. At 5GHz, this was 80A and absolutely not stable with direct airflow over the VRMs.
Losing 50% of the power as heat is a sign we've well and truly passed the VRM's safe spot, and It simply wasn't stable enough to clock any higher.


VRM temps:
Ambient temperature: 19c
Stock: 55c
CPU OC 4.5GHz: 82c (Light airflow kept VRM's down to 54c)
5.3GHZ: Even with directed air from a 120mm fan, the VRM's went over 80c in seconds.
[\spoiler]

Tested at 1080p with lowest possible settings, purely to show how the minimum FPS changed the game from being stuttery mess to actually quite playable.
Results are from CapFrameX.

The RAM speed increase alone made a huge difference here, Borderlands 3 is quite sensitive to RAM speed and CPU cache size.
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Expressed as Percentages from the FPS low of 25.9, it helps you understand a little easier - the RAM speed increased the lows 40%, while ram and CPU increased them 185.7%
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And since someone asked me to test this with a higher end GPU in 3DMark Firestrike, that's been done as well.
Stock+1333 | 5.3+1866

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39% faster from the overclocking - a huge boost considering the GPU is entirely at stock here.
This was done to honour a friends accidental final request to beat 5.2GHz on that 2500K and benchmark it against modern hardware, but also a trial run of some testing hardware i've got here and to compare that motherboard and CPU combination to newer ones, TPU style.
How can you know if a modern motherboard is good, without some history from the golden era of overclocking?

Pros:
VRM's rated to 150c
Fantastic thermal pad used on VRMs
RAM ran at 2400MT/s with a 3570K (not shown in review)
Fully unlocked overclocking support with a K series CPU
Extreme overclocking is stable, despite being a budget board.
VRM temperatures perfectly fine with any 1155 CPU at stock speeds
BIOS recovers from errors and failed boots extremely fast

Cons:
Overclocking is locked without a K series CPU
RAM locked to 1600 with a non-K series CPU
VRMs have poor stock cooling - half don't even have a heatsink on them
BIOS has misleading and confusing 'Easy' mode.
PCI-E x4 slot disables all x1 slots
It's 12 years old.


I'm giving this the MSPaint "Hot Shit" brown star award because it's somehow equally shit and awesome.
It does the job fine at stock and could be a boring B or H series chipset board, but somehow it overclocks FAR above its weight limit in a way that puts modern motherboards to shame.
With USB 3.0, SATA 3 and PCI-E 3.0 it can genuinely be used to play any modern game that can handle having just four cores.

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[\spoiler]
 

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Wonderful nostalgic project!
Planning to do game bench also?

My secondary setup is a similar, but non-K, i5-2400.
Seeing those OK result, in retrospective it was worth investing in the K sku...
 
He never messaged me back as he'd passed away in his sleep that night from heart failure.
He wasn't even 30.
Jesus. This sends flashbacks to a similar case I had with a highschool friend of mine. He too, was very young for heart failure, but at least over 30. My condolences Mussels and good luck with the project.
 
Nice.

Reminded me I have 2600k which could do 5 Ghz with a z77 maximus and sabertooth laying around. I never used watercooling on it and I have many water coolers now. I have to sort and test soon.

Love playing with stuff and yet forget what I have.
 
Wonderful nostalgic project!
Planning to do game bench also?

My secondary setup is a similar, but non-K, i5-2400.
Seeing those OK result, in retrospective it was worth investing in the K sku...
I did borderlands 3 on it (and played a bit) - It works fine, but obviously my other systems do much better so it's silly to play them on the old setup.

I'll probably keep it at a saner 4.5GHz as a spare parts system, that x4 slot will run an NVME drive at 4x 2.0 so it has some good abilities to test parts out with - nothing at full speed, but enough to be sure things actually work if they give me trouble on newer systems. And hey - nothing else I have has PCI slots any more.

The OP looks so void with the spoiler tags closed, but it was overwhelming without them.
Some completed system photos - need better lighting to avoid that film grain look.
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The Core XT and Elmor PMD are hidden behind the back panel, but even with it detached this case is great for stealthing parts. Those white fans have 6 bright white cables yet they're almost hidden completely.

The Core XT has been dropped down behind the VESA plate here
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Getting things like the thermal probes and USB-C for the PMD stealthed are important, since i'll be able to use these as i test out newer hardware - the neater the whole thing is, the less that can interfere with testing.
That noctua was dropped down during the 5.3GHz testing to prevent thermonuclear armageddon.
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Minimum RGB doesn't mean none.
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An interesting project and great write-up! :clap:
On the RAM side, most 2500Ks would happily take 2133 MHz, and some could even work with 2400. One time I upgraded a friend's stock 2500K (3.3 GHz clock and 1333 MHz RAM) to a 4.5 overclock and 2133 memory. Also attached heatsinks on the VRMs, as the motherboard didn't have any.

The difference was staggering. Performance Test v9 showed 9286 vs. 6486 for the CPU and 2976 vs. 1343 for the RAM.
 
An interesting project and great write-up! :clap:
On the RAM side, most 2500Ks would happily take 2133 MHz, and some could even work with 2400. One time I upgraded a friend's stock 2500K (3.3 GHz clock and 1333 MHz RAM) to a 4.5 overclock and 2133 memory. Also attached heatsinks on the VRMs, as the motherboard didn't have any.

The difference was staggering. Performance Test v9 showed 9286 vs. 6486 for the CPU and 2976 vs. 1343 for the RAM.
I used to have DDR3 2400, but that went to live with a 4770K, and some 1600 that OC'd to 2000 lives with the 3570K.

Considering i had mixed 1333 leftovers, it's impressive 1866 was even stable.
 
Sorry about your loss, man. Losing friends is always hard. Looking like an awesome build so far :)
 
Indeed, my condolences as well.

The rig turned out beautifully :rockout:
 
One of my friends has noticed the fans are in fact, cats spinning really fast.

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So not only was it an overclocking beast but also only consuming under 70w on R23 whilst overclocked, thats very nice.
 
bravo Mr. mussels
if ya need some hardware like (high speed) ram i would be willing to send it to you for free
because i know ya do the right thing with it
 
So not only was it an overclocking beast but also only consuming under 70w on R23 whilst overclocked, thats very nice.
The CPU itself is very power efficient, it's the VRMs that are not on this board.
It's why those older CPU's could overclock so easily - low core counts, big easy to cool cores.


Seeing such a large difference between power in (at the EPS connector) vs what the CPU received explained an awful lot about power usage and heat output of some systems - if a 100W CPU can use 200W at the VRMs, a cheap PSU could raise that to 250W... and that would result in a VERY different user experience with the same CPU.


I'm now thinking that VRM efficiency is how motherboards should be judged, at a wattage level determined by the average on their socket/platform - AM4 would be 142W, AM5 170W, intel 241W? Unlocked, if that's the default?


It's a snowball effect where VRM's get less efficient as they heat up, and they produce more heat as they get less efficient - going from 95W to 103W somehow needed 84W more from the VRMs

Imagine how poorly some boards must do, when the change on the wattage side of intel can be almost 300W from an i3 to an i9
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TPU measure their results at the EPS socket, which is why they're higher than other brands - but they also use high end motherboards so these readings will be lower than many home users may experience
 
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I lost a friend aged 25 from SADS, so I know your pain, but at least you have this lovely build to keep those memories alive. RIP for your friend Mussels.

Co-incidentally, That Gigabyte board is the same as the very first motherboard I bought, but it had a 2400 at first, then I got an E3 1240V2 and a Sapphire RX470 with 1333 ram that I didn't realise I could overclock lol. I might dig it out tomorrow.
 
Against all common sense, my friend left this little bottle of UV dye in the parts that expired in 2018.
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Of course i'm going to slap it in and throw some UV light at it, for terrible photos!
 
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