Samsung 870 EVO - Beware, certain batches prone to failure!

[Jon555]

This is a SATA drive (where the speed is already at the SATA limit) so i doubt they will be using faster NAND.

If the faster flash is in a finer geometry and so cheaper to make they may well, provided they don't need all they can make for faster drives...

 

[Sora]

That alone won't prevent the newest Firmware from working on the older revisions though,

This is a SATA drive (where the speed is already at the SATA limit) so i doubt they will be using faster NAND.

And this is where you could be wrong.

The internal write rates of dram cache to nand are far slower than you would believe, you're looking at maybe 1/10th in terms of write throughput, there is definitely room to improve the nand itself.

 

[SPDIF]

Firmware MUST match the NAND used, otherwise it won't work right. NAND also has an Fast SLC cache build in, that the firmware must recognize.
It is possible the old 870EVO will stay with the older firmware and the newer EVO's will get new firmware because of different NAND or DRAM used. Also the DRAM used must match the firmware because of timings.

As i said before with the 970EVO, Samsung has different firmware for the same drive available. They are not compatible with each other. Also Crucial has about 4 different firmware versions available for the same MX500 SSD, again they MUST match the right SSD, flash it wrong and your SSD is a brick! You can't use the newer firmware on a old MX500 and vice versa. They even don't allow to flash it with wrong firmware.

NAND also has an serial number burned in, that the firmware must recognize to work with it.

 

[GabrielLP14]

Firmware MUST match the NAND used, otherwise it won't work right. NAND also has an Fast SLC cache build in, that the firmware must recognize.
It is possible the old 870EVO will stay with the older firmware and the newer EVO's will get new firmware because of different NAND or DRAM used. Also the DRAM used must match the firmware because of timings.

As i said before with the 970EVO, Samsung has different firmware for the same drive available. They are not compatible with each other. Also Crucial has about 4 different firmware versions available for the same MX500 SSD, again they MUST match the right SSD, flash it wrong and your SSD is a brick! You can't use the newer firmware on a old MX500 and vice versa. They even don't allow to flash it with wrong firmware.

NAND also has an serial number burned in, that the firmware must recognize to work with it.

Yes true in fact, but with proprietary tools you can bypass some of those issues you mentioned

 

[SPDIF]

Seen over 3 years total.​

Samsung SSD 870 EVO 1TB Firmware Versions​

Version	Prevalence
SVT02B6Q	57.333%
SVT01B6Q	36%
SVT03B6Q	6.667%

 

[tavosoft]

Seen over 3 years total.​

Samsung SSD 870 EVO 1TB Firmware Versions​

Version	Prevalence
SVT02B6Q	57.333%
SVT01B6Q	36%
SVT03B6Q	6.667%

SVTO2B6Q or SVTO3B6Q With those two firmwares, the SSDs don't fail or die?

 

[SuperConker]

They all fail, even the newest version has seen failures.

 

[SPDIF]

Crucial fail, WD fail, Adata fail, Samsung fail, i send lot's of them back to be replaced, it's quite a lottery sometimes because many manufacturer's now switch component's without letting you know this. I even had some Sandisk SSD that fail. Backup, Backup, Backup, with any brand, or type you use!

 

[tavosoft]

Crucial fail, WD fail, Adata fail, Samsung fail, i send lot's of them back to be replaced, it's quite a lottery sometimes because many manufacturer's now switch component's without letting you know this. I even had some Sandisk SSD that fail. Backup, Backup, Backup, with any brand, or type you use!

 

[SPDIF]

Samsung SSD 870 EVO 2TB Firmware Versions​

Version	Prevalence
SVT02B6Q	87.5%
SVT01B6Q	6.25%
SVT03B6Q	6.25%

 

[tavosoft]

Friend, have you had many Samsung 970 Evo Plus that failed?

 

[SPDIF]

Friend, have you had many Samsung 970 Evo Plus that failed?

None that i know off, but they also can fail, always make you have a backup ready. But that is not SATA it's NVMe SSD.

 

[Assimilator]

So I hate to be that guy, but given this is a 33-page thread, can someone give me a tl;dr as to:

• Which capacities of the 870 EVO are affected? OP had a 4TB model but the later pages of the thread seem to suggest only the 1TB and 2TB models are affected?
• Is there a date of manufacture after which the issue is confirmed to no longer exist?
• Is there a specific firmware update that is known to prevent the issue?

Baiscally, if I drop money on an 870 EVO today, can I expect its failure rate to be comparable to other SSDs? Or is this still a don't-buy situation?

 

[SuperConker]

I had 3 of the 4 TB model die after 2-3 months of very light use,
so all sizes are sadly affected.

New revisions have been made too, but they are also failing the same way.

I would personally not recommend dropping any money on an 870 EVO.

 

[SPDIF]

It is mostly the 1 en 2Tb sizes, 4TB i have not seen yet here in my shop. Problems are away now, i sell them again and no bad SSD any more until now. But for your money the Samsung is still the best! Crucial is slower and also many SSD go bad, they even change components. Also had bad Adata and Sandisk drives. Still i trust Samsung more, they stay world leader.
It's all about numbers, Samsung sells millions of them every year, Sandisk maybe only thousand, does that mean that Sandisk then is better quality? It is normal that more drives fail if you sell millions... While Sandisk maybe only have a few hundreds, people then think it's the best quality...

You can buy Samsung again now, they learned their lesson. It's still the best you can buy for your money! I sold from the bad ones until now 78 pieces, none of them are failing...
You can safely buy an 870EVO again, all problems where due the pandemic, at that time everyone had bad component's. They are now at moment reliable again!

Some of the new ones we testing with writing TB to them, they still are 100 procent now. So yes they are still the best for your money one can get!

I know many will not agree with me, but it is true... You safely can buy an EVO or other SSD again at moment, surely with low prices now.
Crucial i would not recommend at moment, they play a game with switching various component's. Some drives are 50 procent slower then before!
I heard that Crucial use NAND that had been used before in professional equipment. That explains the very cheap Crucial SSD's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/15w75cr

Alleged SK hynix-Made NAND For Apple Discovered Hiding In Cheap SSDs

A "ShineDisk" SSD from China with recycled SK hynix-made NAND for Apple

www.tomshardware.com

 

[tavosoft]

It is mostly the 1 en 2Tb sizes, 4TB i have not seen yet here in my shop. Problems are away now, i sell them again and no bad SSD any more until now. But for your money the Samsung is still the best! Crucial is slower and also many SSD go bad, they even change components. Also had bad Adata and Sandisk drives. Still i trust Samsung more, they stay world leader.
It's all about numbers, Samsung sells millions of them every year, Sandisk maybe only thousand, does that mean that Sandisk then is better quality? It is normal that more drives fail if you sell millions... While Sandisk maybe only have a few hundreds, people then think it's the best quality...

You can buy Samsung again now, they learned their lesson. It's still the best you can buy for your money! I sold from the bad ones until now 78 pieces, none of them are failing...
You can safely buy an 870EVO again, all problems where due the pandemic, at that time everyone had bad component's. They are now at moment reliable again!

Some of the new ones we testing with writing TB to them, they still are 100 procent now. So yes they are still the best for your money one can get!

I know many will not agree with me, but it is true... You safely can buy an EVO or other SSD again at moment, surely with low prices now.
Crucial i would not recommend at moment, they play a game with switching various component's. Some drives are 50 procent slower then before!
I heard that Crucial use NAND that had been used before in professional equipment. That explains the very cheap Crucial SSD's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/15w75cr

Alleged SK hynix-Made NAND For Apple Discovered Hiding In Cheap SSDs

A "ShineDisk" SSD from China with recycled SK hynix-made NAND for Apple

www.tomshardware.com

Friend, can I buy the Samsung 970 evo plus or the Samsung 980 pro with confidence?
Without fear of degradation problem?
Is the 970 evo plus more reliable than the 980 pro with the degradation problem that the 980 pro had?

 

[SPDIF]

There is no degradation any more friend, just buy what you want!

The 980PRO is more reliable... That's why it is a PRO version. EVO is the low cost versions of SSD.

I would not wait too long, prices will go up very soon!
These chips are currently in abundance, and so manufacturers are, rowing back production to create artificial scarcity.

Just i would stay away from Crucial or Adata at moment.

 

[tavosoft]

There is no degradation any more friend, just buy what you want!

The 980PRO is more reliable... That's why it is a PRO version. EVO is the low cost versions of SSD.

I would not wait too long, prices will go up very soon!
These chips are currently in abundance, and so manufacturers are, rowing back production to create artificial scarcity.

Just i would stay away from Crucial or Adata at moment.

Friend, by crucial are you referring to the Mx500 or the P5 plus?

 

[SPDIF]

The cheap SSD like BX500, MX500, or the Crucial P1 (NVMe) The P5 plus is an good NVMe SSD, don't compare that with an cheap SATA SSD.

The cons of an P5 plus are;

Cons​

• -
  High idle power consumption
• -
  Less-than-average efficiency under load.

Then i would choose the EVO 970 Plus...
For those who want the best all-around PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD, the Samsung 980 Pro is still my top pick with the WD_Black SN850 retaining second.

But for those looking to save a few bucks, Crucial’s P5 Plus is a worthy consideration.

 

[tavosoft]

The cheap SSD like BX500, MX500, or the Crucial P1 (NVMe) The P5 plus is an good NVMe SSD, don't compare that with an cheap SATA SSD.

The cons of an P5 plus are;

Cons​

• -
  High idle power consumption
• -
  Less-than-average efficiency under load.

Then i would choose the EVO 970 Plus...
For those who want the best all-around PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD, the Samsung 980 Pro is still my top pick with the WD_Black SN850 retaining second.

But for those looking to save a few bucks, Crucial’s P5 Plus is a worthy consideration.

Friend, thank you for your answers and advice. I have the wd sn850x as my main drive and it seems excellent. Now I want to buy another good nvm2.

 

[SPDIF]

The WD SN850 and WD SN850X are different SSD.

The WD SN850X can compete with the Samsung 990 Pro.

 

[bluestang]

Friend, thank you for your answers and advice. I have the wd sn850x as my main drive and it seems excellent. Now I want to buy another good nvm2.

Stick with WD or Solidigm (formerly Intel).

You couldn't pay me to buy a Samsung after the BS they pulled with the 870 EVO/QVO drives.

 

[f-14]

can't believe people still buy 870 evo, these have been documentED* for well over 3 years to fail enough to be lottery tickets.
rossmann and 2cents even did videos on samsung evo failures. when you buy bottom of the barrel/eco...it's bottom tier for a reason. might have something to do with litho'ing in the pacific ring of fire and all the earthquakes/volcanos blowing up every few days. idk people still build in clearly marked flood plains and hurricane zones and expect FEMA $$$$ despite the story of 3 little pigs being older than america.

samsung magician make sure you have the right firmware or you'll brick your ssd in a month https://youtube.com/shorts/cy_BgJM7R58?si=Y1ButII_wvSEEwz2

 

[goms]

The 980PRO is more reliable... That's why it is a PRO version. EVO is the low cost versions of SSD.

That used to be the case with the previous SSD generations, as the PRO versions (eg: 860 PRO, 970 PRO) were MLC drives and the EVO versions (eg: 860 EVO, 970 EVO) were TLC, so the PROs were generally considered more reliable (but very expensive).
The PRO moniker lost a lot of its meaning now that Samsung is shipping the 980 Pro and the 990 Pro with TLC (though realistically, no one is selling MLC drives anymore). Going away with the Pro brand would have made more sense...
Both the 870 Evo and the 980 Pro use the same flash, and they both have been having reliability issues...

Is the 970 evo plus more reliable than the 980 pro with the degradation problem that the 980 pro had?

The 970 Evo Plus and the 980 Pro are very similar drives. They both use the same controller (Samsung Elpis) and the same flash (V-NAND V6, which is Samsung 128-layer 3D TLC flash), the difference being that the 970 Evo Plus is limited to PCIe 3.0.
You would expect them to be pretty similar, reliability-wise. The 970 Evo Plus seems to suffer from the same issues as the 980 Pro, but apparently we have seen a higher number of failed 980 Pros (maybe because this drive sells more).

 

[f-14]

do you trust a premium vendor or just my word of mouth from people who are professionals that do this for a living doing data recovery?

Samsung SSDs Are Dying

youtube.com

That used to be the case with the previous SSD generations, as the PRO versions (eg: 860 PRO, 970 PRO) were MLC drives and the EVO versions (eg: 860 EVO, 970 EVO) were TLC, so the PROs were generally considered more reliable (but very expensive).
The PRO moniker lost a lot of its meaning now that Samsung is shipping the 980 Pro and the 990 Pro with TLC (though realistically, no one is selling MLC drives anymore). Going away with the Pro brand would have made more sense...
Both the 870 Evo and the 980 Pro use the same flash, and they both have been having reliability issues...


The 970 Evo Plus and the 980 Pro are very similar drives. They both use the same controller (Samsung Elpis) and the same flash (V-NAND V6, which is Samsung 128-layer 3D TLC flash), the difference being that the 970 Evo Plus is limited to PCIe 3.0.
You would expect them to be pretty similar, reliability-wise. The 970 Evo Plus seems to suffer from the same issues as the 980 Pro, but apparently we have seen a higher number of failed 980 Pros (maybe because this drive sells more).