Netgear Brings WiFi 7 to Its Flagship Orbi Family, Unleashing Elite Connectivity at US$2,300

[Aquinus]

Does that router have two 10 Gbps and four 2.5 Gbps ports?
I'm not trying to defend Netgears pricing here, as it's stupid, but the hardware should be pretty solid.

I would argue that the people that this product is targeting does not need 10Gbps or 2.5Gbps ports. However for the sake of argument, there is hardware with SFP+ ports that would still be cheaper, but it's rack mount hardware because they know the market that they're targeting. What Netgear here is doing is marketing to people where money is no object or people with more money than common sense, because if you truly want 10Gbps you're going to put a little more effort than just throwing a ton of money at it for just a mesh network, particularly if you're doing it yourself. If you really want 10Gbps, you're not meshing the entire network. It's really that simple.

Also, I happen to know that when you mesh, you definitely don't get anywhere near the full rated speed of the device. So I'd argue that if you want 10Gbps or 2.5Gbps on a machine, that you should be using a wire, not wireless and investing in some stupid expensive, early adopter hardware.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I would argue that the people that this product is targeting does not need 10Gbps or 2.5Gbps ports. However for the sake of argument, there is hardware with SFP+ ports that would still be cheaper, but it's rack mount hardware because they know the market that they're targeting. What Netgear here is doing is marketing to people where money is no object or people with more money than common sense, because if you truly want 10Gbps you're going to put a little more effort than just throwing a ton of money at it for just a mesh network, particularly if you're doing it yourself. If you really want 10Gbps, you're not meshing the entire network. It's really that simple.

Also, I happen to know that when you mesh, you definitely don't get anywhere near the full rated speed of the device. So I'd argue that if you want 10Gbps or 2.5Gbps on a machine, that you should be using a wire, not wireless and investing in some stupid expensive, early adopter hardware.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider SFP+, it's simply too messy with the cables and you can't route the cables easily, especially between rooms, so for me and I guess most people with a home network that's a no go.
That said, I wouldn't buy this either, as it's simply too expensive for what it is.

The thing is that you don't need to "mesh" with this, since you can use the wireless as backhaul and use the satelites as APs. Even so, the price is all kinds of wrong.

I love it how they boast speeds of 27 Gbps, and then they proceed to equip it with 10 Gbps and 2.5 Gbps ports.
Because of course you're not going to get 27 Gbps. You're not going to get even 2.7 Gbps. You're going to get barely past 1 Gbps if you are next to it, no objects between and no neighbors are using any Wi-Fi.

The amount of lying in Wi-Fi has reached mythical levels.

27 Gbps is combined over all the radios, it's a stupid marketing trick. You should be able to get around 2 Gbps using WiFi 7 with a 2x2 client.

 

[Aquinus]

Personally, I wouldn't even consider SFP+, it's simply too messy with the cables and you can't route the cables easily, especially between rooms, so for me and I guess most people with a home network that's a no go.
That said, I wouldn't buy this either, as it's simply too expensive for what it is.

The thing is that you don't need to "mesh" with this, since you can use the wireless as backhaul and use the satelites as APs. Even so, the price is all kinds of wrong.

That's fair. I guess my point is no matter what way you slice this, there are other options that'll do just as well that cost a fraction as much for very good hardware, even if you really need 10Gbps. Like I said before though, if you really need that kind of speed, you're going to pick something with more flexibility like with what Ubiquiti offers and you're probably going to be plugging a cable in because as you said, you're probably not going to see more than 2Gbps under the best of circumstances (and if you're meshing, you probably won't see that ever.)

 

[Guwapo77]

Personally, I wouldn't even consider SFP+, it's simply too messy with the cables and you can't route the cables easily, especially between rooms, so for me and I guess most people with a home network that's a no go.
That said, I wouldn't buy this either, as it's simply too expensive for what it is.

The thing is that you don't need to "mesh" with this, since you can use the wireless as backhaul and use the satelites as APs. Even so, the price is all kinds of wrong.


27 Gbps is combined over all the radios, it's a stupid marketing trick. You should be able to get around 2 Gbps using WiFi 7 with a 2x2 client.

Folks are out of control with this running wires all through the house and through multiple floors. A lot of people rent the locations where they live and would never take the time to drill through walls and floors to route wires. Additionally, what are people going to do for the the gazillion wireless devices that don't accept cables?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Folks are out of control with this running wires all through the house and through multiple floors. A lot of people rent the locations where they live and would never take the time to drill through walls and floors to route wires. Additionally, what are people going to do for the the gazillion wireless devices that don't accept cables?

Huh? Most modern homes have pre-installed Ethernet cabling in the walls.
I had to re-do some wiring in our house in Taiwan as the previous owner had messed up some of the wiring and it wasn't clear where other parts terminated, but without having wired Ethernet between the floors, I wouldn't have any WiFi either, as the signal from the ground floor wouldn't reach the second floor, nor the signal from the second to the the third floor due to thick concrete floors and steel reinforcement.
The flat we rented in London over eight years ago had a small patch panel in the utility cupboard and Ethernet jacks in all rooms except the bathrooms.
My tiny two room rental in Sweden has the same.
So no, most people aren't actually running wires, they just take advantage of what's already there.

 

[zlobby]

Personally, I wouldn't even consider SFP+, it's simply too messy with the cables and you can't route the cables easily, especially between rooms, so for me and I guess most people with a home network that's a no go.

Have you ever seen an armored FO cable? It's so thin and sturdy that you can even route it through a crack in your door frame. Sans the connector, ofc, but that's not much of an issue anyway.

Sadly, many people still don't know how to configure a managed switch or a router, so a plug-and-pray solutions still have a place under the sun, as sad as it is.

I pity the fools who renovate their houses and and they don't re-cable properly.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Have you ever seen an armored FO cable? It's so thin and sturdy that you can even route it through a crack in your door frame. Sans the connector, ofc, but that's not much of an issue anyway.

And that's the issue, the connectors. How many consumers can add a connector to a fibre optic cable? Most can learn in 15 minutes on a copper Ethernet cable.

Sadly, many people still don't know how to configure a managed switch or a router, so a plug-and-pray solutions still have a place under the sun, as sad as it is.

I don't even really know how to configure a managed switch, as they're quite different from a router, which I know how to configure in most cases.

 

[zlobby]

I don't even really know how to configure a managed switch, as they're quite different from a router, which I know how to configure in most cases.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Weren't you in the business of manufacturing networking devices?

If you can configure routing, firewalls, VPN, and so on, then you'd need very little effort to learn some L2(+) stuff.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Weren't you in the business of manufacturing networking devices?

If you can configure routing, firewalls, VPN, and so on, then you'd need very little effort to learn some L2(+) stuff.

Routers, not switches.

More things like subnets that I'm not familiar with.

 

[zlobby]

Routers, not switches.

More things like subnets that I'm not familiar with.

As I said, it's really easy to learn if you want or need to.

Only MikroTik have some VLAN implementations that are not for the faintest of hearts.

 

[TheLostSwede]

As I said, it's really easy to learn if you want or need to.

Only MikroTik have some VLAN implementations that are not for the faintest of hearts.

I haven't really had any need to use it, so haven't bothered looking into it.
Been playing around with VPN stuff for a few years, mainly to get remote access to my OMV NAS.

 

[Guwapo77]

Huh? Most modern homes have pre-installed Ethernet cabling in the walls.
I had to re-do some wiring in our house in Taiwan as the previous owner had messed up some of the wiring and it wasn't clear where other parts terminated, but without having wired Ethernet between the floors, I wouldn't have any WiFi either, as the signal from the ground floor wouldn't reach the second floor, nor the signal from the second to the the third floor due to thick concrete floors and steel reinforcement.
The flat we rented in London over eight years ago had a small patch panel in the utility cupboard and Ethernet jacks in all rooms except the bathrooms.
My tiny two room rental in Sweden has the same.
So no, most people aren't actually running wires, they just take advantage of what's already there.

Now that is pretty interesting as I have NEVER lived in a house with pre-installed ethernet. I have lived in Japan, S. Korea, Germany, Guam (USA), and the USA and there has never been said wiring. My island homes and Germany required powerline adapters to get the WiFi through the homes. And the house I live in now was built after 2000 does not have nothing ethernet. So yeah...running wires through the house is crazy to me and if you don't own the home, its simply not authorized to put holes in the walls to do said wiring.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Now that is pretty interesting as I have NEVER lived in a house with pre-installed ethernet. I have lived in Japan, S. Korea, Germany, Guam (USA), and the USA and there has never been said wiring. My island homes and Germany required powerline adapters to get the WiFi through the homes. And the house I live in now was built after 2000 does not have nothing ethernet. So yeah...running wires through the house is crazy to me and if you don't own the home, its simply not authorized to put holes in the walls to do said wiring.

Well, Germany and the US isn't exactly well known for their broadband infrastructure, which I guess is reflected on the homes as well.
All new-ish homes in Sweden have Ethernet in most rooms, since the construction companies don't want to assume where you want to place your router etc. Most homes in built up areas have access to Gigabit or faster internet access as well.
I'm not sure why you'd need it in Japan, as most people live in tiny flats. I'm surprised it's not common in Korea, as they have really fast internet and don't live as cramped as the Japanese.

 

[zlobby]

Well, Germany and the US isn't exactly well known for their broadband infrastructure, which I guess is reflected on the homes as well.
All new-ish homes in Sweden have Ethernet in most rooms, since the construction companies don't want to assume where you want to place your router etc. Most homes in built up areas have access to Gigabit or faster internet access as well.
I'm not sure why you'd need it in Japan, as most people live in tiny flats. I'm surprised it's not common in Korea, as they have really fast internet and don't live as cramped as the Japanese.

Can you imagine the interference from the other APs and clients in these tiny, cramped flats in Japan?

 

[TheLostSwede]

Can you imagine the interference from the other APs and clients in these tiny, cramped flats in Japan?

5 and 6 GHz networks are perfect in this situation, since they the signal gets degraded quickly once it goes through a wall or two.
A high-power 2.4 GHz router would be nasty there.

 

[zlobby]

5 and 6 GHz networks are perfect in this situation, since they the signal gets degraded quickly once it goes through a wall or two.
A high-power 2.4 GHz router would be nasty there.

Japan doesn't really allow for the usage of the entire 5GHz spectrum for Wi-Fi. That doesn't leave them with much to work with. And given the really dense building layouts, things are also looking grim, as significant amount of interference can creep in.

Put how most routers always select the lowest channel (for obvious reasons) in the mix, and you can easily see 20 or more APs in the low band of the spectrum. And that is even with the strict EIRP requirements.

A few coats of RF attenuating paint is always a good option. It also increases the multipath propagation and makes MIMO gains possible.

I don't even want to hear about 6GHz because of its adverse effects on the health of many living things, humans incl.
Thankfully, it attenuates well, so even your neighbors' 6GHz won't be a problem for the others.

It will be long before most people adopt the latest technologies where stations and clients respect the medium if others are transmitting.

 

[Guwapo77]

Well, Germany and the US isn't exactly well known for their broadband infrastructure, which I guess is reflected on the homes as well.
All new-ish homes in Sweden have Ethernet in most rooms, since the construction companies don't want to assume where you want to place your router etc. Most homes in built up areas have access to Gigabit or faster internet access as well.
I'm not sure why you'd need it in Japan, as most people live in tiny flats. I'm surprised it's not common in Korea, as they have really fast internet and don't live as cramped as the Japanese.

The root of all this is...its not feasible to run wires many countries in the world. Just the thought is *insert mind blown emoji*. WiFi is our primary solution and in some of the more dire situations...Powerline APs. Where ever the cable or fiber connection drops off in the house, that is where the gaming rig is usually set up for the wired connection.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Japan doesn't really allow for the usage of the entire 5GHz spectrum for Wi-Fi. That doesn't leave them with much to work with. And given the really dense building layouts, things are also looking grim, as significant amount of interference can creep in.

Used to, it has gotten a lot better, like in most countries. At least as long as you have a router with DFS/TPC.

List of WLAN channels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Put how most routers always select the lowest channel (for obvious reasons) in the mix, and you can easily see 20 or more APs in the low band of the spectrum. And that is even with the strict EIRP requirements.

That's not really the case any more. I can't manually set the channel on my internet providers router that came with the place and I presume neither can anyone else in this building. That said, I barely see my neighbours WiFi signals, even on the 2.4 GHz band, due to how these flats are built.

It will be long before most people adopt the latest technologies where stations and clients respect the medium if others are transmitting.

Depends, the ISPs here appear to be pushing for people using at least semi-modern gear after a couple of big whoopsies a few years ago with hardcoded ISP backdoors into the routers they provided.

The root of all this is...its not feasible to run wires many countries in the world. Just the thought is *insert mind blown emoji*. WiFi is our primary solution and in some of the more dire situations...Powerline APs. Where ever the cable or fiber connection drops off in the house, that is where the gaming rig is usually set up for the wired connection.

And it is in many countries.
Yes, most people use WiFi, but not because it's better, simply because they've bought the marketing, hook, line and sinker for WiFi and they believe it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Also, most consumers don't use desktops anymore, so wired doesn't matter for many, unless they do local backups of their computers and devices.
That's been impossible in all the three places I've lived in for the past 10 years, as it's either been in a utility cupboard full of ventilation stuff, not even possible to keep the router in there, or in the hallway next to the electrical stuff.

 

[claes]

I don't even want to hear about 6GHz because of its adverse effects on the health of many living things, humans incl.
Thankfully, it attenuates well, so even your neighbors' 6GHz won't be a problem for the others.

One of those huh?

 

[zlobby]

One of those huh?

I have posted the scientific papers here on several occasions. I have no intention to do it again, but everyone is free to do some digging on their own.

 

[Guwapo77]

Used to, it has gotten a lot better, like in most countries. At least as long as you have a router with DFS/TPC.

List of WLAN channels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's not really the case any more. I can't manually set the channel on my internet providers router that came with the place and I presume neither can anyone else in this building. That said, I barely see my neighbours WiFi signals, even on the 2.4 GHz band, due to how these flats are built.

Depends, the ISPs here appear to be pushing for people using at least semi-modern gear after a couple of big whoopsies a few years ago with hardcoded ISP backdoors into the routers they provided.


And it is in many countries.
Yes, most people use WiFi, but not because it's better, simply because they've bought the marketing, hook, line and sinker for WiFi and they believe it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Also, most consumers don't use desktops anymore, so wired doesn't matter for many, unless they do local backups of their computers and devices.
That's been impossible in all the three places I've lived in for the past 10 years, as it's either been in a utility cupboard full of ventilation stuff, not even possible to keep the router in there, or in the hallway next to the electrical stuff.

You have no arguments from me...wired connections are superior for the the foreseeable future. That part was never up for debate. For those without much choice (inserts my face), WiFi is what we have to deal with as wiring a place I do not own is rather impractical.

 

[claes]

I have posted the scientific papers here on several occasions. I have no intention to do it again, but everyone is free to do some digging on their own.

I tried “WiFi,” “5ghz” and “6ghz” in your posting history and the best I could find was this, so if you could share I’d appreciate it

Intel and Broadcom Achieve Major Wi-Fi 7 Industry Milestone

Today, Intel Corporation and Broadcom Inc. showcased the industry's first cross-vendor Wi-Fi 7 demonstration, with over-the-air speeds greater than 5 gigabits per second. The trial used an Intel Core processor-based laptop with a Wi-Fi 7 solution connected to a Broadcom Wi-Fi 7 access point...

www.techpowerup.com