Weird memory timings with Ryzen 5 5600X + freezing issues?

[cst1992]

2 sticks of 3600 MHz RAM - Corsair CMK16GX4M1Z3600C18
Look at the memory timings.
Instead of the optimal 18-22-22-42, I'm getting 26-25-25-58.

My system also tends to experience weird freezing issues - could that be related to this?
Whenever I quit a game or run a memory test, my whole system freezes up such that I can't even open Task Manager. Even Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't do anything.
I am forced to reset the system using the motherboard's reset button.

System specs:

Processor: Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming Wifi II
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12S chromax.black
Memory: 32GB: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance 3600MHz C18
Video Card(s): NVIDIA RTX 3060Ti Founder's Edition
Storage: 500GB 970 Evo Plus NVMe (boot drive), 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s): AOC C24G1 144Hz 24" 1080p Monitor
Case: Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO White
Power Supply: Seasonic X-650 Gold PSU (SS-650KM3)
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

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Edit - Resolution:
1. Two kinds of crashes were the issue - random instant ones which were only solved with a hard reset, and slow ones which didn't crash instantly but over the course of 2-3 minutes slowed the system to the point of unresponsiveness, then required a hard reset. Replacing a bad network card (Mediatek RZ608) with a new one (Intel AX210) resolved the instant freezes, and the slow freezes were caused due to OS corruption because of the constant freezes over the course of a few weeks, which are only solved via a system reinstall. BTW, replacing the network card will void warranty of the motherboard.
2. Non-kit Corsair memory was removed in favor of Patriot one - which is a kit with same timings. This was unrelated to the crashing or OS corruption, but it should still help maintain stability long term. If you suspect your memory is bad then use Memtest86, OCCT or HCI MemTest to check for errors. Also try either setting GDM or setting command rate to 2T and disable GDM in BIOS.
3. VDIMM and MEM_VTT don't show in ZenTimings, with both pairs of modules. This is still unresolved.
4. The weird timings in this post are due to non-XMP settings - an XMP profile in Ai Tweaker (or similar all-manual changes in BIOS) fixes them.
5. Some BIOS tweaks such as disabling PBO Fmax Enhancer for 5000 series CPUs, setting C-State Control to Disabled and/or setting PSU idle current to Typical should help if none of the above works for you.
6. Make sure memory dumps are enabled in Advanced Settings in the case of a BSOD - it should identify which file - core system or driver - led to the crash. Use WhoCrashed to analyze dump files.
7. It helps to check SMART values and PSU voltages to rule out the OS drive and power supply. Run corecycler for 72 hours minimum to rule out CPU instablities.
8. If you are getting CLOCK_WATCHDOG_TIMEOUT or PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA BSODs then that may be an indicator that your system is already becoming unstable, especially at stock settings in BIOS. Stutters in games and slow window loading/similar symptoms are other indicators. A reinstall of Windows is in order in that case.

 

[wNotyarD]

1) According to the manual of your motherboard, you should use two ram sticks at the DIMM_A2 and DIMM_B2 slots. From your screenshot I see B2 is in use, but what of the other dimm module?
2) Your bios is BADLY out-of-date, update it.
3) Is your Corsair Vengeance RAM a kit, or two memory sticks bought separately? Is XMP active in the bios options?
4) Also, I don't know how if the MCLK:FCLK ratio is 1:1. Could you get a screenshot using ZenTimings?

And yes, badly timed memory (even if looser than its rated profile) can and will bring issues, Ryzen is finicky regarding memory. So...
5) To check errors you can use TestMem5 with 1usmus or Anta777 Extreme profiles. It'll be a lenghty process, so you can let it run overnight.

 

[cst1992]

1) I have installed them correctly, consulting the motherboard's manual.
2) Will do.
3) No kits - as there are none available. Model number is the same as I bought two of the same model from the same retailer. But yes, they might not have been tested together as a kit.
4) ZenTimings (identical info for both A2 and B2 sticks):

5) I have downloaded it, but how do I load a profile on it?

 

[ir_cow]

It's very possible both stick aren't using the same ICs. CPU-Z will tell you what each one is.

In any case, update the BIOS, make sure they are in the right slots and enable XMP.

 

[cst1992]

I downloaded 3 versions of the new BIOS - 4408, 4602 and 4802.

Normally I'd just update to 4802 and be done with it, but I have heard that some versions (4602 or 4802, I'm not sure) have issues. Something about the V2PI version 1.2.0.A not working right or something.

This is my first Ryzen system, so I'm just a bit apprehensive. Plus if I brick the board, I won't get a replacement as the chipset is now going out of stock everywhere.

 

[ir_cow]

Just go with the newest BIOS for now.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I downloaded 3 versions of the new BIOS - 4408, 4602 and 4802.

Normally I'd just update to 4802 and be done with it, but I have heard that some versions (4602 or 4802, I'm not sure) have issues. Something about the V2PI version 1.2.0.A not working right or something.

This is my first Ryzen system, so I'm just a bit apprehensive. Plus if I brick the board, I won't get a replacement as the chipset is now going out of stock everywhere.

Install the latest BIOS as ir_cow says. Socket AM4 is an older platform now and BIOSes have been solid for a while now. Just updating it should probably fix your issues altogether as memory training was optimized with some of the most recent BIOSes that you are skipping.

 

[wNotyarD]

I downloaded 3 versions of the new BIOS - 4408, 4602 and 4802.

Normally I'd just update to 4802 and be done with it, but I have heard that some versions (4602 or 4802, I'm not sure) have issues. Something about the V2PI version 1.2.0.A not working right or something.

This is my first Ryzen system, so I'm just a bit apprehensive. Plus if I brick the board, I won't get a replacement as the chipset is now going out of stock everywhere.

As yours is a revised X570 chipset-equipped motherboard, there should be no issues if you just slap the newest bios available. Were it 300 or 400-series, it'd be another story.

 

[cst1992]

So, no change after BIOS reset to 4802. Still freezes, still messed up timings.

On the right, both the Resource Monitor and Task manager panes are completely frozen. No updates at all.

What should I do to update the SoC voltage? That's the next step for me.

Update: Tried resetting to the highest non-XMP frequency (i.e. 1333MHz at 1.20V). That didn't help either. In fact, this time it crashed in the middle of a game rather than after me exiting it.

This is so frustrating. The computer doesn't even bluescreen. I wish it at least did that so that I had something to go on with.

 

[meatwar]

I see 3 options... I/O operations failure (RAM/Disk access), PSU working on maximum output limits with no margin for power oscillations or a possible driver issue.
All this presuming that the 3060 Ti has no issue and those locks happens... i don't remember if you mention any freeze out of gaming...
Was that Resource Monitor capture a freeze just sitting on the desktop?

 

[Vya Domus]

This is anecdotal but I have experienced this and seen this way too often, corsair memory kits and AMD platforms are nothing but trouble.

 

[phanbuey]

This is anecdotal but I have experienced this and seen this way too often, corsair memory kits and AMD platforms are nothing but trouble.

It's crazy if that's still true - but my first r7 1700 and a corsair vengence kit was actually possessed.

I've been too traumatized to try that again so no idea if they fixed it.

 

[Vya Domus]

It's crazy if that's still true - but my first r7 1700 and a corsair vengence kit was actually possessed.

I've been too traumatized to try that again so no idea if they fixed it.

Just a week or two ago there was someone else on here trying to troubleshoot something possibly related to RAM, what do you know, they also had corsair memory. I said the same thing, people didn't believe me, I don't know what's with these kits but they just simply do not go along with AMD, especially AM4, if you look up issues with RAM on various forums there is a good 60-70% chance they are using corsair. It's a mystery to me why they suck so badly.

I had a 1700 too with a corsair vengeance kit, it was supposed to run at 3000mhz, spent like a month trying to get XMP working, managed to do it, then after some time I updated the BIOS, never got it working at those speeds again.

 

[meatwar]

It's crazy if that's still true - but my first r7 1700 and a corsair vengence kit was actually possessed.

I've been too traumatized to try that again so no idea if they fixed it.

@phanbuey I love that term used "POSSESSED"...hehehe a doom machine
Im not an AMD user but, i also agree that i would go Kingston or GSkill if i was setting up an AMD platform

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Plus if I brick the board, I won't get a replacement as the chipset is now going out of stock everywhere.

I checked Newegg and still looks like there's plenty in stock, even though I don't know about X570, but still looked like there were some. So I don't think you're forced to go to Raphael yet.

 

[wNotyarD]

This is anecdotal but I have experienced this and seen this way too often, corsair memory kits and AMD platforms are nothing but trouble.

Issue here it's not even a Corsair kit but two separate sticks (same model, but does it even matter with Corsair?), so even if op tell us what is the rev number on them, that doesn't guarantee that they use the same memory chips. Should, but doesn't.

Also, in defense of Corsair, my previous Dominator kit never gave me a hint of an issue even with a Ryzen 7 2700. Worth every dollar.

 

[meatwar]

Issue here it's not even a Corsair kit but two separate sticks (same model, but does it even matter with Corsair?), so even if op tell us what is the rev number on them, that doesn't guarantee that they use the same memory chips. Should, but doesn't.

The RAM Kits were created exactly for that, to assure identical modules for each channel and their best performance, long is away the SDR/DDR1 times...
According to the captures presented 1_A2 and 3_B2 seems identical pieces

 

[wNotyarD]

The RAM Kits were created exactly for that, to assure identical modules for each channel and their best performance, long is away the SDR/DDR1 times...
According to the captures presented 1_A2 and 3_B2 seems identical pieces

They have the same model number, that's correct. But op said himself they weren't bought as a kit, and the Corsair model numbering shows: CMK 16G X4 M1 Z3600C18 - that's 1 module of 16GB, and not a two-piece kit (that'd be 32G and M2).
As we only know the model number through HWiNFO and ZenTimings, we don't know if those two modules use the same memory chips under the hood.

@cst1992 can you download and use Thaiphoon Burner (as an admin) to read each memory stick information, and paste screenshots of them here?

 

[VuurVOS]

@cst1992 can you download and use Thaiphoon Burner (as an admin) to read each memory stick information, and paste screenshots of them here?

Or just pull the Corsair modules from the system and share the version number of the modules?
If they are the same version number, then they should have the same memory chips under the heatsink.

See: https://help.corsair.com/hc/en-us/a...d-circuits-ICs-are-used-on-my-CORSAIR-memory-

 

[wNotyarD]

Or just pull the Corsair modules from the system and share the version number of the modules?
If they are the same version number, then they should have the same memory chips under the heatsink.

See: https://help.corsair.com/hc/en-us/a...d-circuits-ICs-are-used-on-my-CORSAIR-memory-

I did mention the rev numbering, and even that isn't always reliable with Corsair. It should be, but isn't.

EDIT: I just checked my Dominators (didn't sell them yet) and found my mistake: the word isn't revision but version.

 

[A Computer Guy]

OP can you run the freeware version of thaiphoon and snag images of both modules and post them back here?

For example it should give you a readout something like this below for each module but with info more specific to your modules

This is anecdotal but I have experienced this and seen this way too often, corsair memory kits and AMD platforms are nothing but trouble.

I had done fairly well with Corsair with timing tweaks outside of getting actually bad sticks early in the zen+ days. Just last week though sadly I was having ram issues with my LPX modules in my gaming pc and it crashed several times. So I popped my ECC ram in and zero problems. Even shocked my stock 32GB CL18 Corsair DDR4-3600 is now being edged out in benchmarks by my 64GB CL22 ECC DDR4-3200. Crazy huh? It was my first Corsair kit where initially I never had to manually adjust timings and was very happy with it up until last week.

2 sticks of 3600 MHz RAM - Corsair CMK16GX4M1Z3600C18
Look at the memory timings.
Instead of the optimal 18-22-22-42, I'm getting 26-25-25-58.

My system also tends to experience weird freezing issues - could that be related to this?
Whenever I quit a game or run a memory test, my whole system freezes up such that I can't even open Task Manager. Even Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't do anything.
I am forced to reset the system using the motherboard's reset button.

I didn't see this anywhere in the thread but have you tried running the freeware version of memtest86 ?

 

[VuurVOS]

I did mention the rev numbering, and even that isn't always reliable with Corsair. It should be, but isn't.

EDIT: I just checked my Dominators (didn't sell them yet) and found my mistake: the word isn't revision but version.

You mean ver 4.31 which can be Samsung B-die or Samsung C-die The SPD can also contain incorrect information and therefore isn't reliable neither.
The only way to know 100% for sure is to remove the heatspreader and see what is written on the memory itself which will void the warranty.

@cst1992 Dont remove the heatspreader, just check the version number listed on the memory heatspreader.
It will give you enough certainly if you have same or different manufacturer of memory chips. (Samsung (V4.xx) / Hynix (V5.xx) / Micron (V3.xx) / Nanya (V8.xx))

 

[Assimilator]

I'm willing to bet that slapping in a non-Corsair kit of 2x 16GB 3600C18 would solve all your problems. Given how cheap DDR4 is right now, there really isn't any good reason to waste time (= money) troubleshooting when there's an inexpensive, almost guaranteed fix. And if a new kit of memory doesn't solve the problem, you've at least ruled the memory out, i.e. you now know it's either the board or CPU that are bad.

 

[cst1992]

PSU working on maximum output limits with no margin for power oscillations

That's impossible. PCPartPicker says my system draws 424W with everything going all at once. My PSU can continuously supply 650W - that's a margin of 226W. It couldn't possibly be choking that much that it just froze the system.

Was that Resource Monitor capture a freeze just sitting on the desktop?

Yes, a few minutes after exiting a game. The game in question (Hot Pursuit 2010) is not capable of saturating either the CPU or GPU.

Im not an AMD user but, i also agree that i would go Kingston or GSkill if i was setting up an AMD platform

Used G.Skill ARES on my old PC (a kit, even) with an i5-4690k. Flawless.
I wanted to get a G.Skill or Kingston Fury Beast stick, but went with Corsair ONLY BECAUSE I thought they'd have better availability after a few years. If I knew I was dealing with something possessed I'd just have gotten the Beast.

I checked Newegg

I'm not in the US.

that's 1 module of 16GB, and not a two-piece kit (that'd be 32G and M2).

But I gotta tell you... these things are the closest thing to a kit you could ever get (even closer than a real kit, IMHO).
Check this out:

They are literally siblings! Identical everything, and the only difference between the two is the serial number - xx75 and xx76!

OP can you run the freeware version of thaiphoon and snag images of both modules and post them back here?

Will do.

I didn't see this anywhere in the thread but have you tried running the freeware version of memtest86 ?

Yes, I burned it to a USB and ran overnight. No issues.

I'm willing to bet that slapping in a non-Corsair kit of 2x 16GB 3600C18 would solve all your problems. Given how cheap DDR4 is right now, there really isn't any good reason to waste time (= money) troubleshooting when there's an inexpensive, almost guaranteed fix.

$80 down the drain, and $85 additional for a new set of Beasts.
Not exactly inexpensive, but I'm willing to do it if we know for sure the modules are bad.

---

Oh, another thing: I'm currently testing the sticks in isolation to see if using only one stick helps, and in that case, which one of them is the bad one.
Might keep me from chucking a perfectly good set of sticks (which ofc still remains to be seen).

 

[freeagent]

They are literally siblings! Identical everything, and the only difference between the two is the serial number - xx75 and xx76!

They are notorious for mixing chips. You can have 2 sets working fine, but mix them together and you have big problems. This is nothing new with them, I can demonstrate it on a DDR2 system with 2 pairs of XMS, or some Dominators. They all work fine on their own, but you cannot mix any of them together lol. Shite.