Weird memory timings with Ryzen 5 5600X + freezing issues?

[wNotyarD]

But I gotta tell you... these things are the closest thing to a kit you could ever get (even closer than a real kit, IMHO).
Check this out:
View attachment 319116
They are literally siblings! Identical everything, and the only difference between the two is the serial number - xx75 and xx76!

As similar as they are, they weren't factory tested to work with one another. That's the reason kits exist (and I'd need to check later for my Dominator 2-piece kit, but I guess their serial numbers are followed up too).

Oh, another thing: I'm currently testing the sticks in isolation to see if using only one stick helps, and in that case, which one of them is the bad one.
Might keep me from chucking a perfectly good set of sticks (which ofc still remains to be seen).

Great idea. If they both work at their advertised speeds when alone, you can at least take note of every single one of their timings and voltages (with XMP enabled) and try to then set them manually with both installed.

For the sake of information, @ir_cow @tabascosauz Corsair ver 3.44 should in theory be Micron B-die, right?

 

[A Computer Guy]

I forgot to ask. By any chance did you try to set DRAM voltage and timings manually instead of using the XMP option?

 

[VuurVOS]

@cst1992
Can you make a screenshots how you configured the memory in the bios?

@wNotyarD v3.44 Is to my information Micron 16Gbit Rev.B which should be decent overclockers

 

[cst1992]

I forgot to ask. By any chance did you try to set DRAM voltage and timings manually instead of using the XMP option?

Haven't done that yet. That's my next course of action.

Can you make a screenshots how you configured the memory in the bios?

I can just tell you that - There's this option called Ai Tweaker in the BIOS which lets me set frequency - I set FCLK to 1800 and Memory frequency to 3600.
At the time of the latter screenshot (and now) the memory is actually running at 2666 MHz with FCLK of 1333, which is the fastest non-XMP setting according to HWINFO. It gives the timings it should at these settings, but it gives funky timings at 3600.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

I'm not in the US.

Aww OK. Don't know then. It's possible that the seller(s) in your area scrapped all the AM4 motherboards.

 

[wNotyarD]

Haven't done that yet. That's my next course of action.

I can just tell you that - There's this option called Ai Tweaker in the BIOS which lets me set frequency - I set FCLK to 1800 and Memory frequency to 3600.
At the time of the latter screenshot (and now) the memory is actually running at 2666 MHz with FCLK of 1333, which is the fastest non-XMP setting according to HWINFO. It gives the timings it should at these settings, but it gives funky timings at 3600.

Can you try activating your ram xmp profile without using AI Tweaker? I remember that on my Gigabyte EZ-OC didn't play nice with XMP settings.

 

[cst1992]

can you download and use Thaiphoon Burner (as an admin) to read each memory stick information, and paste screenshots of them here?

Here you are:

---

Another update: I removed my pagefile completely to see if the issue is somehow related to the pagefile. But no - it fixed microstuttering in the game itself (funny how it still stuttered) but the issue remains.

 

[VuurVOS]

Haven't done that yet. That's my next course of action.

I can just tell you that - There's this option called Ai Tweaker in the BIOS which lets me set frequency - I set FCLK to 1800 and Memory frequency to 3600.
At the time of the latter screenshot (and now) the memory is actually running at 2666 MHz with FCLK of 1333, which is the fastest non-XMP setting according to HWINFO. It gives the timings it should at these settings, but it gives funky timings at 3600.

Its not properly configured. Just setting the frequency does not configure the memory timings at all! Thats why I asked for a screenshot. Load the XMP profile!
I think the feature to load the XMP profile on Asus motherboards is called D.O.C.P

Video which explains how to load the XMP profile on an Asus motherboard:

 

[Assimilator]

$80 down the drain, and $85 additional for a new set of Beasts.
Not exactly inexpensive, but I'm willing to do it if we know for sure the modules are bad.

---

Oh, another thing: I'm currently testing the sticks in isolation to see if using only one stick helps, and in that case, which one of them is the bad one.
Might keep me from chucking a perfectly good set of sticks (which ofc still remains to be seen).

You don't seem to understand what we're telling you. The sticks do not have to be "bad" per se, they merely have to be incompatible with your CPU. If you drop them in pretty much any Intel system they will almost certainly run perfectly happily forever. It's simply that for reasons unknown, Zen CPUs and Corsair memory modules historically do not get along, and the only way around that is to use non-Corsair RAM.

You can get a 2x 16GB 3600C18 kit for 65 quid, brand new, from Amazon. Or for under £60 with the 20% off coupon currently on offer from Ebay. Or the same kit as the latter, but twice the capacity, for under £100 with the same coupon. You can then flog your current sticks to get some money back.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

The sticks do not have to be "bad" per se, they merely have to be incompatible with your CPU.

This is why I like FSB systems better! I also had major problems with 2x16 GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo with the same frequency and timings!

 

[VuurVOS]

Zen CPUs and Corsair memory modules historically do not get along, and the only way around that is to use non-Corsair RAM.

Corsair memory worked fine on my first gen Ryzen systems. The main issue is caused by mixing version when a buyer thinks he is buying the same memory but it is actually different.
CMK16GX4M1Z3600C18 is listed as AMD 400 Series & AMD 500 Series compatible and the version is the same.

This is a configuration issue since cst1992 is currently running his memory out of specs without a tested xmp profile.

 

[Denver]

View attachment 318920
2 sticks of 3600 MHz RAM - Corsair CMK16GX4M1Z3600C18
Look at the memory timings.
Instead of the optimal 18-22-22-42, I'm getting 26-25-25-58.

My system also tends to experience weird freezing issues - could that be related to this?
Whenever I quit a game or run a memory test, my whole system freezes up such that I can't even open Task Manager. Even Ctrl-Alt-Del doesn't do anything.
I am forced to reset the system using the motherboard's reset button.

System specs:

Processor: Ryzen 5 5600X
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming Wifi II
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12S chromax.black
Memory: 32GB: 2x16GB Corsair Vengeance 3600MHz C18
Video Card(s): NVIDIA RTX 3060Ti Founder's Edition
Storage: 500GB 970 Evo Plus NVMe (boot drive), 2TB Crucial MX500
Display(s): AOC C24G1 144Hz 24" 1080p Monitor
Case: Lian Li O11 Dynamic EVO White
Power Supply: Seasonic X-650 Gold PSU (SS-650KM3)
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

I just noticed that the AMD-V extension and secure boot are both disabled. Why ?

 

[cst1992]

This is a configuration issue since cst1992 is currently running his memory out of specs without a tested xmp profile.

I agree. I'll watch the video and see what changes.

I just noticed that the AMD-V extension and secure boot are both disabled. Why ?

I have no idea. I'll have to check the BIOS.

---

So, a couple developments:

1. I set the profile at DOCP according to the video and it did set a few more things than just the FCLK and Memory Frequency. In short, it manually set the timings that the spec requires, rather than the default "loose" timings that I was seeing.
Screenshot:

2. After doing the test of "one at a time" sticks I reinstalled both sticks again and found that I installed them in A1 and B1 by mistake. When I applied DOCP to this, the system went into a reboot loop and then POSTed in safe mode. I guess this means the DOCP profile only works in the "better" A2 and B2 slots. In other words, I won't be able to add another two sticks in this system. Bummer.
3. With the combination of the correct slots and the profile, the system DIDN'T immediately freeze - this time - and I was able to safely shut it down. I'll continue to use it like this for some time, then see if this configuration is actually stable or not.

---

One question though: why now? I built the whole system from scratch back in beginning of September - two months before now. The system has been in use since then - not continuously, but still - and I didn't see any such issue. Does it take time to manifest? I have been playing games on the system for a longer duration than I do these days with no issues.

I will be doing a long run of Memtest64 today to see if the system remains stable for a few hours of memory testing. After that, I'll be trying the game again to see if there are any more freezes.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I agree. I'll watch the video and see what changes.

I have no idea. I'll have to check the BIOS.

If it's enabled in the bios then you may also have to enable virtualization it in windows. One day I noticed I had the same problem and had to lookup the command to enable it.

2. After doing the test of "one at a time" sticks I reinstalled both sticks again and found that I installed them in A1 and B1 by mistake. When I applied DOCP to this, the system went into a reboot loop and then POSTed in safe mode. I guess this means the DOCP profile only works in the "better" A2 and B2 slots. In other words, I won't be able to add another two sticks in this system. Bummer.

That might simply mean your board doesn't support installing single channel configuration in both banks.

 

[cst1992]

Okay, but it's not like it didn't run at all - it just didn't run at the XMP frequency.

 

[A Computer Guy]

3. With the combination of the correct slots and the profile, the system DIDN'T immediately freeze - this time - and I was able to safely shut it down. I'll continue to use it like this for some time, then see if this configuration is actually stable or not.

Did you confirm with zen timings that your memory settings stuck?

 

[cst1992]

The sticks do not have to be "bad" per se, they merely have to be incompatible with your CPU.

If this is the case, does it cause issues from day one? For me it has been running okay for the last two months since I built it.

Did you confirm with zen timings that your memory settings stuck?

Yes:

 

[wNotyarD]

I agree. I'll watch the video and see what changes.

I have no idea. I'll have to check the BIOS.

---

So, a couple developments:

1. I set the profile at DOCP according to the video and it did set a few more things than just the FCLK and Memory Frequency. In short, it manually set the timings that the spec requires, rather than the default "loose" timings that I was seeing.
Screenshot:
View attachment 319147
2. After doing the test of "one at a time" sticks I reinstalled both sticks again and found that I installed them in A1 and B1 by mistake. When I applied DOCP to this, the system went into a reboot loop and then POSTed in safe mode. I guess this means the DOCP profile only works in the "better" A2 and B2 slots. In other words, I won't be able to add another two sticks in this system. Bummer.
3. With the combination of the correct slots and the profile, the system DIDN'T immediately freeze - this time - and I was able to safely shut it down. I'll continue to use it like this for some time, then see if this configuration is actually stable or not.

---

One question though: why now? I built the whole system from scratch back in beginning of September - two months before now. The system has been in use since then - not continuously, but still - and I didn't see any such issue. Does it take time to manifest? I have been playing games on the system for a longer duration than I do these days with no issues.

I will be doing a long run of Memtest64 today to see if the system remains stable for a few hours of memory testing. After that, I'll be trying the game again to see if there are any more freezes.

Did you turn AI Tweaker off as you enabled DOCP? But yeah, the numbers on your pic seem right now, we only need a ZenTimings screenshot to confirm them (especially voltage, which wasn't shown on your last one).

EDIT: Weird, ZenTimings still can't read VDIMM for you
The numbers seem better now, if you can stress test it with TestMem5 using 1usmus profile (sorry for not answering you earlier on how to use it) and pass, you should be good to go.

 

[Fouquin]

Issue here it's not even a Corsair kit but two separate sticks (same model, but does it even matter with Corsair?), so even if op tell us what is the rev number on them, that doesn't guarantee that they use the same memory chips. Should, but doesn't.

Also, in defense of Corsair, my previous Dominator kit never gave me a hint of an issue even with a Ryzen 7 2700. Worth every dollar.

The lower frequency, low latency Dominators have worked fine on Ryzen for me. Every single Vengeance kit going back to the original 3200 kit AMD supplied with their 1800X review kit has been a problem. I've been through four Vengeance kits on various AM4 builds before I simply switched to building with Team or G.Skill. Whichever had the best deal for the performance.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Lookup your tRFC value. For example... You might want to make another manual adjustment based on what your ram supports.

 

[wNotyarD]

The lower frequency, low latency Dominators have worked fine on Ryzen for me. Every single Vengeance kit going back to the original 3200 kit AMD supplied with their 1800X review kit has been a problem. I've been through four Vengeance kits on various AM4 builds before I simply switched to building with Team or G.Skill. Whichever had the best deal for the performance.

It's incredible how DDR4 Vengeances have issues with Ryzens. DDR3 Vengeances had no issues at all on AM3+. (I have no info on DDR5 Vengeances on AM5)

 

[cst1992]

Update: Memtest64 still hangs the system with the pagefile enabled.
I guess I have no choice but to change the RAM.

 

[wNotyarD]

Update: Memtest64 still hangs the system with the pagefile enabled.
I guess I have no choice but to change the RAM.

Remember to check your motherboard's memory qvl, and to get a proper kit for dual-channel.
It's unfortunate that it didn't work out, but that's life.

 

[VuurVOS]

Update: Memtest64 still hangs the system with the pagefile enabled.
I guess I have no choice but to change the RAM.

Why did you use memtest64? Its beter to use Memtest86 since that will run outside of Windows.
Now you can still have a Windows issue which cause your problem.

Url: https://memtest.org/

 

[cst1992]

Why did you use memtest64? Its beter to use Memtest86 since that will run outside of Windows.

Because the issue doesn't show up with Memtest86 on a USB drive. I have seen it run for multiple hours with no errors detected.
In fact, memory errors is the one thing I am not getting. I'm just getting system freezes.