Intel CEO Doesn't See Arm-based Chips as Competition in the PC Sector

[AleksandarK]

During the Q3 2023 earnings call, Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger was answering some questions from analysts regarding the company's future and its position on emerging competition. One of the most significant problems the company could face is the potential Arm-based chip development not coming from x86 vendors like Intel and AMD. Instead, there could be fierce competition in the near future with the recently announced Qualcomm Snapdragon Elite X, possible NVIDIA Arm-based PC processor, and in the future, even more Arm CPU providers that Intel would have to compete against in the client segment. During the call, Pat Gelsinger noted that "Arm and Windows client alternatives, generally, they've been relegated to pretty insignificant roles in the PC business. And we take all competition seriously. But I think history as our guide here, we don't see these potentially being all that significant overall. Our momentum is strong. We have a strong roadmap."

Additionally, the CEO noted: "When thinking about other alternative architectures like Arm, we also say, wow, what a great opportunity for our foundry business." If the adoption of Arm-based CPUs for Windows PCs becomes more present, Intel plans to compete with its next-generation x86 offerings like Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake, and even Panther Lake in the future. As stated, the CEO expects the competition to manufacture its chips at Intel's foundries so that Intel can provide a platform for these companies to serve the PC ecosystem.



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[Prima.Vera]

Already Apple's processors are competing, in some tasks, on equal grounds with Intel/AMD's latest.
This guy is delusional, and it's another proof why Intel lost the battle with TMSC and Samsung.

 

[piloponth]

Famously, Steve Ballmer didn’t seen an iPhone as an competitor to their Windows CE handhelds. Ignorance of these CEOs is mindblowing.

 

[stimpy88]

I love the pro-ARM brigade. Funny dudes!

 

[TheNightLynx]

A sweet-hearth CEO.
I hope for Intel this is a tactical declaration.

 

[hs4]

If Qualcomm's claim is correct, the Snapdragon Elite X will be tie to M3 and better than the Meteor lake. It will have a similar power/performance curve to the Arrow lake's 4P+8E and slightly higher performance than Lunar lake's 4P+4E, based on their claim.

The foretasted fact that it has the same performance as Intel means that it will not be able to make up for the loss of x86 emulation on ARM, and it will be difficult to compete in the market. Intel is leading the way in the introduction of GAA and BS-PDN. Applied Materials also rated PowerVIA as one generation better than other companies' buried power rail (BPR). It can't be expected a lead based on differences in manufacturing processes as the case with M1 (N5) v Comet lake (14nm).

 

[Fourstaff]

Very strong statement, I hope it plays out well for them.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

I agree, on servers though and mobile stuff, Intel missed the boat.

 

[TheNightLynx]

If Qualcomm's claim is correct, the Snapdragon Elite X will be tie to M3 and better than the Meteor lake. It will have a similar power/performance curve to the Arrow lake's 4P+8E and slightly higher performance than Lunar lake's 4P+4E, based on their claim.

The foretasted fact that it has the same performance as Intel means that it will not be able to make up for the loss of x86 emulation on ARM, and it will be difficult to compete in the market. Intel is leading the way in the introduction of GAA and BS-PDN. Applied Materials also rated PowerVIA as one generation better than other companies' buried power rail (BPR). It can't be expected a lead based on differences in manufacturing processes as the case with M1 (N5) v Comet lake (14nm).

True, but realistically nobody can think of an Intel advantage on perf x watt front against ARM. So I think the laptop space is at risk for Intel. From x86 side there is AMD, from efficency side there is ARM.
And in 2024 Windows on ARM is in a better state than now.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Yeah there's no chance at all that arm could out X86 in all computation device's, just look at apple, they ditched X86 and it went terrible for them.

Except it didn't, and that makes these words actually FOOLISH.

I hate apple and don't want to do X86 emulated but even I am not blind to realities, the ecosystem is already in place pretty much.

 

[dj-electric]

Just an anecdote.

Notice how x86 CPUs are morphing into ARM structure CPUs and ARM CPUs as of late morph into more x86 structure ones (the use of very powerful X cores).
There's a market realization that a good hybrid build of strong next to weaker more efficient silicon needs to be a thing.

ARM's challenge is definitely not bringing compute. An ARM with a couple of X4 cores and a bunch of A715 cores at 15-20W could bring monstrous compute for day to day tasks.
Most of the issue falls on the fact that x86's software is exactly what it is.

 

[kondamin]

Those tsmc efficiency cores must be very good to keep up with arms power sipping

 

[NC37]

Already Apple's processors are competing, in some tasks, on equal grounds with Intel/AMD's latest.
This guy is delusional, and it's another proof why Intel lost the battle with TMSC and Samsung.

My M1 MBA is certainly capable but I'm more impressed with the GPU side rather than the CPU part. Only thing that really will hurt Apple from supremacy is lack of expansion options with them going full appliance mode.

 

[freeagent]

Coming from a company who has perfected the art of stagnation

 

[Nanochip]

Main thing I have to say to Pat is don’t be Steve Balmer. That clown dissed the iPhone for not having a physical keyboard and we saw happened to both Rim (blackberry) and Windows phone. Two dinosaurs went extinct. He didn’t understand what was about to happen. The billions of dollars to be made from app stores.

So Pat had better be careful and take the ARM threat serious. That said, windows on arm is rough around the edges but if the software experience catches up to the x86 build of windows, with killer apps that creators want to use and AAA game support, and Qualcomm is offering better performance per watt, x86 could be in trouble. But, and a big but, Intel seems to have a focus with power efficiency as it shrinks its nodes and offers meteor lake and soon arrow lake/lunar lake. Also, AMD has a big focus on power efficiency. By time snapdragon elite launches, meteor lake will be in market and arrow lake and lunar lake will be nearing launch, and zen5 mobile should be in market or near market launch.

but as we have seen from Apple (and some of the same Apple engineers that worked on Apple silicon are now at Qualcomm working on Oryon), arm chips can offer seriously good performance and consume little power. Apple is about to launch m3 series tonite at 8pm EST, probably offering serious competition vs raptor lake and zen4 mobile. Intel must tread extremely carefully. The arm threat is serious. Do not underestimate estimate arm because the consumer tide can turn over nite, especially if the windows on arm software experience is good and the price is right. But it may take an Oryon generation or two with a solid windows experience and app compatibility before more and more consumers have enough confidence to ditch x86 on PC. Apple silicon has proven that a lifestyle company can make excellent arm-based computing machines and make billions of dollars selling them.

 

[friocasa]

He's just pretending, I mean... if Apple M SOCs didn't exist *maybe* he could believe that, but those literally replaced Intel CPUs on Apple computers

Chinese/Indian brands will start manufacturing ARM computers with Windows, at first probably with Qualcomm(I think there was some kind of exclusivity), but over time low-cost alternatives will come out, like it did for the mobile market, from brands like Meadiatek, Rockchip, Allwinner... like the raspberry pi alternatives

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

When it comes to thermals and power consumption, he's absolutely right. Remember when Intel tried to make SOCs for mobile devices? Those couldn't hack it either.

 

[yeeeeman]

While i think snapdragon x elite can be a fantastic chip, what apple also has is SOFTWARE.
qualcomm has to rely on microsoft for that which is known for it's "prowess".
So if they can't get a translation layer that is at least as good as rosetta and apps for arm, then they can have whatever chip they want cause they can't magically make a 5x performance chip that will overcome all the shitty software support from microsoft.

 

[Dave65]

He also once said, I think when the 13 gen came out it was the end for AMD.. He is a total TOOL

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

While i think snapdragon x elite can be a fantastic chip, what apple also has is SOFTWARE.
qualcomm has to rely on microsoft for that which is known for it's "prowess".
So if they can't get a translation layer that is at least as good as rosetta and apps for arm, then they can have whatever chip they want cause they can't magically make a 5x performance chip that will overcome all the shitty software support from microsoft.

Dont forget, linux doesnt have ANYTHING in the space. Given how poor MS support is, I cant imagine their rosetta competitor getting any better anytime soon. IIRC it still doesnt support 64 bit software.

God if only apple supported vulcan.

 

[phanbuey]

Translation: We do see this as major competition, we tried to buy SiFive and failed, and we have absolutely no plan. We are scrambling.

 

[Daven]

I love the pro-ARM brigade. Funny dudes!

Relating back to our diversity conversation, everyone is pro-ARM just most don’t know it. ARM is everywhere which is something Intel wanted with IoT. Every US home has a multitude of OSes and devices using different hardware architectures. Diversity in internet connected devices is working. More specifically in the end-user day to day ‘computer’ crowd:

Many people use their smartphones as their primary computer. Paying bills, checking email, browsing the web, gaming. For some it may be the only ‘computer’ they ever own.

The world is already primed for a wide array of diverse devices. Where multiple architectures failed on desktop form factors in the 80s giving rise to Wintel, today’s compute everywhere anytime approach requires different chips, OSes and experiences. Intel’s leadership knows this but continues to downplay reality as if they can will it all away.

 

[TheNightLynx]

My M1 MBA is certainly capable but I'm more impressed with the GPU side rather than the CPU part. Only thing that really will hurt Apple from supremacy is lack of expansion options with them going full appliance mode.

... also price and closed hardware and software ecosystems put a problem. And most importantly the lack of competition in the word "supremacy" is a problem from a consumer perspective.

 

[dyonoctis]

True, but realistically nobody can think of an Intel advantage on perf x watt front against ARM. So I think the laptop space is at risk for Intel. From x86 side there is AMD, from efficency side there is ARM.
And in 2024 Windows on ARM is in a better state than now.

I think that zen 4 is actually why Intel think that x86 can compete with ARM. Looks at the score of the 7950x @ 65w. The M2 ultra CPU max out at about 60w and score lower. AMD already caught up, windows laptop having a worse battery life is well...a windows thing.

 

[Daven]

I think that zen 4 is actually why Intel think that x86 can compete with ARM. Looks at the score of the 7950x @ 65w. The M2 ultra CPU max out at about 60w and score lower. AMD already caught up, windows laptop having a worse battery life is well...a windows thing.
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I wonder what is the sustained clock speed across all cores between the three processors during the test.