second pump in loop?

maxfly · Nov 29, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
@EddyAlphacool

Is this ok? is it possible to get a new one? Had to clean it, the rubber seal has stretched? was tricky getting it back in correctly

View attachment 323430

What's the black spot/smudge on the edge of your base? I've never seen rubber used in a block before. I assume the heat from the CPU caused the warpage...and I can see how reassembly might be tricky. Interesting in a weird way.

If you're going to get a temporary heatsink I would go with one of the excellent Thermalright offerings, Peerless Assassin, Phantom Spirit or Frost Commander. All are equal to a d15 at a 1/3 of the price.

A Computer Guy · Nov 29, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Get a couple more pairs of qdc's for your pump/ reservoir
This is so you can prime your cpu block after you disconnect it and clean it
Helps to limit how much air goes into the system otherwise you still need to get the added air out.

Save time bottom line.
I love qdc's I use the black koolance qd3 but alphacool has some to as mentioned

QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) *Black*

Koolance patented quick disconnect no-spill coupling with automatic shutoff. 10mm (3/8in) ID, 16mm (5/8in) OD male straight connection with compression fitti

koolance.com

QD3 Female Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) *Black*

Koolance patented quick disconnect no-spill coupling with automatic shutoff. 10mm (3/8in) ID, 16mm (5/8in) OD female straight connection with compression fit

koolance.com

I second this. QDC's are very handy to have. I have the 10mmx13mm version of these koolance quick disconnects they work very well.
There is an orientation that is a bit less restrictive in flow (female to male)
If the pull arrow is pointing to the flow input you know you've got it right.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 29, 2023

maxfly said:
What's the black spot/smudge on the edge of your base? I've never seen rubber used in a block before. I assume the heat from the CPU caused the warpage...and I can see how reassembly might be tricky. Interesting in a weird way.

If you're going to get a temporary heatsink I would go with one of the excellent Thermalright offerings, Peerless Assassin, Phantom Spirit or Frost Commander. All are equal to a d15 at a 1/3 of the price.

Not sure what the smudge is, could have been from the main sealing ring

Ferrum Master · Nov 29, 2023

Rubber gaskets? Why... it gives short term improvements, yes, but not on long term as any rubber it fails with time. Ultimately bad engineering choice.

Instead of fixing what shouldn't be fixed, how about increasing machining tolerances to ensure smaller gaps in the first place.

We have all been in the contamination room, especially when putting new blocks or radiators. Just do loop flushing more often and use simple distilled water. After you have finished few times, you can add additives. I support adding antifreeze mixed with distilled water as it has proven to be a good solution for decades on water cooling, included mixed metal. Absolutely no stress.

maxfly · Nov 29, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
Not sure what the smudge is, could have been from the main sealing ring

Gotcha, was just wondering if the gasket, flow plate (or whatever that thing is called) was schleffing off that much rubber so as to leave smudges. May have explained the blockage.

And I should have said, I have never seen rubber used in a block "like that".

ThrashZone · Nov 29, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
It was very difficult to get it back in the right place, then how do you know if it is once it is together. It was longer than the place it fits into, so what, does it just squash into place. Imo it is not the best bit about the good block. It kinda feels like the stuff cycle inner tubes are made from.

So do i have to buy a male and a female? EDIT just saw the different links

So what do i need from here, sorry never bought these before
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/?query=Koolance%20QD3

Hi,
I used the part #'s and they popped up
Part No. QD3-MS10X16-BK
Part No. QD3-FS10X16-BK

You have 10-16mm tubing these would be them 3/8-5/8" is the same thing.

Koolance QD3 Female Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in)

Order Koolance QD3 Female Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

Koolance QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) - Black

Order Koolance QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) - Black now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

They have the threaded type to I like to use the same type and just leave soft tubing with slack so it's more movable.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 29, 2023

Ferrum Master said:
Rubber gaskets? Why... it gives short term improvements, yes, but not on long term as any rubber it fails with time. Ultimately bad engineering choice.

Instead of fixing what shouldn't be fixed, how about increasing machining tolerances to ensure smaller gaps in the first place.

We have all been in the contamination room, especially when putting new blocks or radiators. Just do loop flushing more often and use simple distilled water. After you have finished few times, you can add additives. I support adding antifreeze mixed with distilled water as it has proven to be a good solution for decades on water cooling, included mixed metal. Absolutely no stress.

I don't use additives, i use XSPC EC6 premix, also my tank has a gauze filter in the bottom, and i used a fresh bottle of fluid. The black gunk came from somewhere else. The amount of time i have had my loop now, i am pretty sure it is flushed by now.

And have to agree on the rubber, it might make the block perform better but is a pita.

Ferrum Master · Nov 29, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
I don't use additives, i use XSPC EC6 premix, also my tank has a gauze filter in the bottom, and i used a fresh bottle of fluid. The black gunk came from somewhere else. The amount of time i have had my loop now, i am pretty sure it is flushed by now.

And have to agree on the rubber, it might make the block perform better but is a pita.

Infections do happen from many things, tubing, fingerprints, your breath landing on the coolant or fittings thus causing bacterial party...

You should not stress that much and save money... use plain distilled water. I have it in liters home anyways, due to floor mopping robots, yes you have to use distilled water for them too, otherwise they clog up.

Vya Domus · Nov 29, 2023

I really don't think that's leeching off from the rubber, I don't think that's a thing that can happen in this short time of a period and it also wouldn't happen in chunks big enough to block the fins. It probably came from somewhere else. It's very bizarre that the CPU block was clogged but the GPU one wasn't, is the direction of the flow such that the CPU is before the GPU ? That stuff might have come from somewhere else like a messed up O ring or something and got stuck in the CPU block because that was the first thing it hit in it's path. It's also possible something was in the CPU block before you even put it in the loop.

Every time I put a loop together I flush it twice with distilled water when leak testing to be sure there is no debris left in there.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 29, 2023

Vya Domus said:
I really don't think that's leeching off from the rubber, I don't think that's a thing that can happen in this short time of a period and it also wouldn't happen in chunks big enough to block the fins. It probably came from somewhere else. It's very bizarre that the CPU block was clogged but the GPU one wasn't, is the direction of the flow such that the CPU is before the GPU ? That stuff might have come from somewhere else like a messed up O ring or something and got stuck in the CPU block because that was the first thing it hit in it's path. It's also possible something was in the CPU block before you even put it in the loop.

Every time I put a loop together I flush it twice with distilled water when leak testing to be sure there is no debris left in there.

PUMP-GPU-RAD-CPU-PUMP And i agree, it cannot have come from pump, or radiator, as i said it about 2 years old, so any gunk in that would have come out by now, the newest part is the CPU block, and my loop was running fine for a loong time before i changed the block with a HK IV in it.

ThrashZone · Nov 29, 2023

Hi,
Yeah cpu blocks are getting better at catching stuff than some filers do
Refresh what filter you using exactly ?
Hell I was using an automotive filer temporarily during bleeding to catch anything coming out rads which are tough to get everything out of but usually it's small chunks solder/... and i use HW labs rads they are filthy.
QDC's on it as well

https://www.autozone.com/fuel-syste...2369-premium-clearview-fuel-filter/352786_0_0

Ferrum Master · Nov 29, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
PUMP-GPU-RAD-CPU-PUMP And i agree, it cannot have come from pump, or radiator, as i said it about 2 years old, so any gunk in that would have come out by now, the newest part is the CPU block, and my loop was running fine for a loong time before i changed the block with a HK IV in it.

It also can be fittings. Look at them inside.

ShiBDiB · Nov 29, 2023

I don't see how a second pump here would do anything but add complexity?

Sounds like other people have already got you looking at other issues/solutions to the flow problem.

ThrashZone · Nov 29, 2023

Hi,
As far as the warped rubber jetplate goes maybe try a small pot and boil some water and sandwich it under something
This might flatten it out some.
Might want to wait for the new or make sure the water is around max TDP temp shouldn't hurt anything.

ShiBDiB said:
I don't see how a second pump here would do anything but add complexity?

Sounds like other people have already got you looking at other issues/solutions to the flow problem.

Not really, think the clogged block came in latter which might of tossed the dual pump need away op can confirm that maybe.
Now we were just talking adding QDC's more than anything.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 30, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
As far as the warped rubber jetplate goes maybe try a small pot and boil some water and sandwich it under something
This might flatten it out some.
Might want to wait for the new or make sure the water is around max TDP temp shouldn't hurt anything.

Not really, think the clogged block came in latter which might of tossed the dual pump need away op can confirm that maybe.
Now we were just talking adding QDC's more than anything.

I think maybe i need to contact eddie with a DM as he has not messaged me re a new rubber seal. I am going to hazard a guess though and say the new one will probably just end up baggy like the old one did though. Maybe should have just had a rubber ring like every other block i have used has.

This pic is after TPU testing, the rubber seal still seems flat, why did mine stretch and go baggy? maybe it should have been bonded to the black plastic part shown

ThrashZone · Nov 30, 2023

Hi,
Reviewer wasn't dealing with a clogged cpu block for a while either which caused more heat
I'm sure you were oc'ing the chip high to which increased the heat

Not sure what the buying parts options are at ocool
I'd just hit up customer support on their website and ask for the part if they don't list it.
If all fails hell you already reassembled it and if so don't overthink it.

Vya Domus · Nov 30, 2023

How hot could the liquid have gotten to warp rubber ? We're talking what, 50C at most ? If that.

EddyAlphacool · Nov 30, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
I think maybe i need to contact eddie with a DM as he has not messaged me re a new rubber seal.

I'm not here in the forum every day. I only do it for fun on the side when I have some time. I am not a support employee but Head of Marketing and Product Manager. I'm only in some forums and channels when I want to clear my head or look at feedback in person.

Otherwise, please always contact the support team directly if you have any questions: info@alphacool.com

We usually reply within max 48 hours, except on weekends and public holidays in Germany. Of course, it can sometimes take longer at peak times such as Christmas, but it is often quicker. Please always check your spam folder, sometimes replies end up there.

Chrispy_ · Nov 30, 2023

FoulOnWhite said:
Don't really understand it, I use a fresh bottle of xspc ec6 every time. So God knows how it got clogged, which was some black stuff btw, But anyway the rubber seal is rubbish on something so expensive, it has stretched? So it does not even fit properly now over the hot plate. I'm a bit nervous about putting it back in there now.

Might be time to put my air coolers back on till I get another block, which will be another HK as I had no problems with that even stripping it a few times to clean it.

I suspect your EC6 coolant has ruined that jet plate guide. It's clearly deformed and it's unlikely to be because of heat or pressure - silicone is completely inert up to a few hundreds degrees, and natural rubber shrinks, but only beyond the boiling point of water, and your loop clearly didn't boil, and that rubber plate guide clearly hasn't shrunk - it's grown - so it's likely that it's absorbed something in the coolant.

I would assume xspc tested on silicone seals as they're usually used as o-rings and mating the two halves of blocks together, so perhaps that jet-plateguide is natural rubber? It's likely not a good idea for any loop with organic parts in it since it contains stuff that should not mix with other water additives.

What did Alphacool say, assuming you followed Eddy's suggestion to contact Alphacool support?

EddyAlphacool · Nov 30, 2023

This seal was neither deformed by the liquid nor by excessive heat. We only used very soft material. However, as it was also too tricky for our production department to install this, we only use this seal in the first batch of coolers.
From the second batch onwards, we use a different gasket that is somewhat harder and does not deform in this way. The new ones are white. But they don't change the performance.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 30, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Reviewer wasn't dealing with a clogged cpu block for a while either which caused more heat
I'm sure you were oc'ing the chip high to which increased the heat

Not sure what the buying parts options are at ocool
I'd just hit up customer support on their website and ask for the part if they don't list it.
If all fails hell you already reassembled it and if so don't overthink it.

My CPU is stock and has been since i got it, please don't assume i was, cba OC'ing anymore and the CPU is fine for my needs. My water temp was probably no more than 40c ever with this block.

I also cannot see any way it has anything to do with the XSPC EC6 either.

For now i have stripped the water cooling out, and am using the stock GPU cooler and a Noctua U12s, i am getting a Noctua D15s chromax black from a friend. So when i get the new seal i will fit it and decide to put the loop back in, or stick with air for a while. Maybe i do need to revise my pump situation anyway as i have had problems with the D5 pumps. I will look at a new pump/res or just stick a new D5 in my res.

ThrashZone · Nov 30, 2023

EddyAlphacool said:
@FoulOnWhite
Support can certainly send you a new one. But as the seal is very thin, it will generally be difficult to insert it cleanly.

What do you mean? I don't understand the statement, or do you mean that the rubber piece should have been made of stainless steel? That is intentional, this rubber insert ensures that 100% of the water is channelled through the centre. It should seal everything around it at this point. With stainless steel, you have leakage currents around the jetplate, which reduces the cooling performance somewhat. We will switch to this technology for all coolers because it simply delivers more performance.

EddyAlphacool said:
I'm not here in the forum every day. I only do it for fun on the side when I have some time. I am not a support employee but Head of Marketing and Product Manager. I'm only in some forums and channels when I want to clear my head or look at feedback in person.

Otherwise, please always contact the support team directly if you have any questions: info@alphacool.com

We usually reply within max 48 hours, except on weekends and public holidays in Germany. Of course, it can sometimes take longer at peak times such as Christmas, but it is often quicker. Please always check your spam folder, sometimes replies end up there.

EddyAlphacool said:
This seal was neither deformed by the liquid nor by excessive heat. We only used very soft material. However, as it was also too tricky for our production department to install this, we only use this seal in the first batch of coolers.
From the second batch onwards, we use a different gasket that is somewhat harder and does not deform in this way. The new ones are white. But they don't change the performance.

Hi,
Well that last response might of been best on the first response from you it sure would of saved us a lot speculation
Guessing you got new info eventually and now sharing it :cool:

Better late then never :rockout:

FoulOnWhite said:
My CPU is stock and has been since i got it, please don't assume i was, cba OC'ing anymore and the CPU is fine for my needs. My water temp was probably no more than 40c ever with this block.

I also cannot see any way it has anything to do with the XSPC EC6 either.

For now i have stripped the water cooling out, and am using the stock GPU cooler and a Noctua U12s, i am getting a Noctua D15s chromax black from a friend. So when i get the new seal i will fit it and decide to put the loop back in, or stick with air for a while. Maybe i do need to revise my pump situation anyway as i have had problems with the D5 pumps. I will look at a new pump/res or just stick a new D5 in my res.

Being this is techPOWERUP it's a natural assumption my bad :slap:

Welcome to watercool bro learning from hard knocks at least alphacool finally stated they discontinued the first round of defective gaskets
Try and get ek to admit defects :roll:

(ಠ ͜ ಠ) · Nov 30, 2023

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Yeah the faster the fluid goes through radiators they actually are less efficient at removing the heat from the fluid

No. A higher flow rate is more efficient for cooling. In a nutshell, a higher flow rate means you are moving more coolant volume per unit time through the radiator/water block, thus also transferring more heat. Higher flow rates also create turbulence, which is better for cooling. Either you or Issac Newton is right.

ShrimpBrime · Nov 30, 2023

miko said:
No. A higher flow rate is more efficient for cooling. In a nutshell, a higher flow rate means you are moving more coolant volume per unit time through the radiator/water block, thus also transferring more heat. Higher flow rates also create turbulence, which is better for cooling. Either you or Issac Newton is right.

Just need to have enough rad to remove thermals from the coolant! All about that flow and surface area.

I suppose that's the idea of the split rubber piece in the water block. Direct as much flow over the center base of the block. Looks to cause some restriction however. Which would degrade the performance.

I'd rather see a copper shim instead of rubber though. It would be better to have a conductor inside the coolant rather than an insulator.

FoulOnWhite · Nov 30, 2023

I will wait on the new gasket and go from there. For now i will weep at my higher temps and cooking GPU :cry:

Thanks @EddyAlphacool

Getting a D5s chromax tomorow off a friend, which i will leave in or not, i'll see when i get the new seal. Cooler is a Noc U12s

It is the aquacomputer OCTO fan controller hanging at the back

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second pump in loop?

maxfly

A Computer Guy

QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) Black

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FoulOnWhite

Ferrum Master

maxfly

ThrashZone

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Koolance QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 10mm x 16mm (3/8in x 5/8in) - Black

FoulOnWhite

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FoulOnWhite

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FoulOnWhite

ThrashZone

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Keyboard	Logitech K740 / K740 / Craft

System Name	Bragging Rights
Processor	Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard	It has no markings but it's green
Cooling	No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory	2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s)	Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage	32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s)	10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case	Veddha T2
Audio Device(s)	Apparently, yes
Power Supply	Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse	MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard	Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD	Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software	W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores	I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.

System Name	I don't name my rig
Processor	14700K
Motherboard	Asus TUF Z790
Cooling	Air/water/DryIce
Memory	DDR5 G.Skill Z5 RGB 6000mhz C36
Video Card(s)	RTX 4070 Super
Storage	980 Pro
Display(s)	Some LED 1080P TV
Case	Open bench
Audio Device(s)	Some Old Sherwood stereo and old cabinet speakers
Power Supply	Corsair 1050w HX series
Mouse	Razor Mamba Tournament Edition
Keyboard	Logitech G910
VR HMD	Quest 2
Software	Windows
Benchmark Scores	Max Freq 13700K 6.7ghz DryIce Max Freq 14700K 7.0ghz DryIce Max all time Freq FX-8300 7685mhz LN2