Anyone else deep into Flight Sims?

[JATownes]

I am a lurker and haven't posted in a while, but thought I would see if there were any other flight sim enthusiasts around here and what your setup looked like. My flight sim journey is a little weird. I played old school flight/space sims back in the 90's but really fell out of the genre in the early 2000's. I was checking out MSFS2020/DCS with a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick last year and mention to my wife that I would like some cool flight stuff for the PC when Christmas came around. I was thinking a cool new joystick or something, but on Christmas morning I opened this:

Now, I must say that this is an EXTREMELY nice piece of kit. But I had always flown fighter type planes and wasn't real sure what to do here. I decided that I was going to pick a plane in MSFS2020 and learn how to fly it! I chose the Beechcraft Baron G58 and spent about 6 months learning how to realistically fly and handle the plane. This was very overwhelming with the aircraft systems, FAA Regs, ATC systems, ILS landing, etc., but I finally managed to handle the Baron and other general aviation aircraft.

Eventually I wanted to fly some jets (blow something up) in DCS and decided to look around for a HOTAS to satisfy my needs. I was looking at a Logitech X56 when I stumbled across a thread berating someone for wanting an X56 and recommended a brand called VKB, a company I had never heard of, instead. The quote I remember was that "the X56 was the high end of bottom dollar HOTAS, and instead you should buy the low end of the top dollar." I looked into this company VKB and they had great reviews, but kinda mixed shipping reviews. They did not have a proper throttle in their lineup, but did have an "Omni Throttle Adapter" for the left stick of the NXT Gladiator Base to make it somewhat like a throttle. The base had the option to lock the axis and was VERY customizable, so I decided to bite the bullet and snagged a right and left set, with the left stick having the Omni Throttle Adapter.

These ended up being amazing and the company has been wonderful for support. Adjustable spring tension/dry clutches on both primary axis and swappable HAT/button modules...these things were great for the money. I started looking around for an additional throttle module to handle propeller/mixture/flaps, etc. and noticed that VKB also had a small throttle module and "button box" for a reasonable amount of money. I ended up grabbing those and the "Autopilot Module" from VKB as well.

I got my son to use his 3D printer to make me a mount for the modules to sit on the edge of my desk, and it turned out really well I think.

A couple of months after I bought my sticks VKB launched a proper throttle system in the STECS Standard and my wife and kids chipped in for my birthday and snagged it for me. This thing is a beast and has so many option for the HATS/Button modules and customizable detents. The software is VERY robust, which gives it a slight learning curve to get full use of all the features, but is otherwise plug and play.

Well as soon as I got this I decided I needed to learn how to fly an F-16. I jumped in using the F-16C Blk50 in DCS and immediately learned how important all those little buttons around those MFD screens in the cockpit are. I looked around and found that Thrustmaster made some extremely overpriced imitation MFDs and decided to say screw it and buy a pair.

These things ended up being very useful to learn all the weapon/sensor systems in the F-16, but I still consider them overpriced. After all of this finally came together, I needed some way to mount all of this to my desk. I had been using them just sitting on the desk, but this was less than optimal for what I was doing. I decided to buy a pair of cheap desk mounts off Amazon and built a "bridge" between the two mounts to affix the other modules using some aluminum extrusion my son had laying around.

This ended up working really well with all of the modules/joysticks plugged in to an Anker powered USB hub. This allows me to quickly unmount the entire assembly from the desk and set it aside to use the computer for normal tasks/other gaming.

Special cable management shot:

Completed and mounted to the desk:

At the end of the day, my flight setup consists of:
Turtle Beach Velocity One Flight Yoke (for General Aviation and Airliners)
VKB NXT Gladiator Base with SCG Premium Right Stick (for Jets and Fighters)
VKB STECS Standard Throttle
VKB NXT Gladiator Base with Omni Throttle SCG Premium Left Stick (replaces STECS for Space Sims)
VKB THQ + SEM + FSM-GA on custom mount
2 x Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs
Custom joystick desk mounting system

I'm hoping for a set of decent Velocity One or VKB rudder pedals for Christmas this year, at least that is what I have hinted to my wife I would like!

So does anyone else play flight/space sims and have a cool setup? What kind of gear do you use and what does your cockpit look like?

JAT

 

[R-T-B]

I have little to add here sadly, being more of a space flight enthusiast that atmospheric flight one, but those immiation MFD's do look like they could be handy in KSP, if I could figure out how to interface them *thoughts*

Of course it's a pipe dream really, I can barely fit my display in my room, let alone a recreation cockpit of any kind of command module.

All the same from one simulation enthusiast to another: Very cool!

 

[JATownes]

I have little to add here sadly, being more of a space flight enthusiast that atmospheric flight one, but those immiation MFD's do look like they could be handy in KSP, if I could figure out how to interface them *thoughts*

Of course it's a pipe dream really, I can barely fit my display in my room, let alone a recreation cockpit of any kind of command module.

All the same from one simulation enthusiast to another: Very cool!

They interface like an additional keyboard. I actually use one of them in racing games as well.

I was unaware that KSP had hotas support! Definitely going to have to give it another look.

 

[R-T-B]

They interface like an additional keyboard. I actually use one of them in racing games as well.

I was unaware that KSP had hotas support! Definitely going to have to give it another look.

I do not think it does natively (or if it does it sucks) but there are plugins/mods for HOTAS. The displays on the MFDs probably won't work without some custom coding though.

Bit of advice, avoid KSP 2 for now. It's half baked at the moment. Maybe raw even... lol.

 

[tabascosauz]

@JATownes never thought I'd see a flight sim thread, let alone NXTs!! Excellent choice, sir. Maybe I've even seen you on VKB or HOTAS discord, lol

I started with an NXT and Orion 1, I have a MCGU Gunfighter, STECS and T-rudder.

Sadly I do not have a picture of my current setup, as I'm waiting for some top plates from Foxx and Predator. These are pretty outdated as I've revamped my STECS mount a fair bit, and after converting my GF3 and MCGU to Rev.C connector am now running a 100mm extension.

Have been debating whether to get a UFC solution but undecided. Hardware itch has mostly been scratched now. Just debating Total Controls or upcoming Winwing F16 ICP. And also waiting for an opportunity to get my hands on VKB's upcoming Gen4 cams for gunfighter, as in the picture I already received a pair of Avia-s but I need it in Space-s.

I see that you have combined the hikig pair into an abomination go for T-rudder! You'll never go back to an off the shelf store bought pedals after T-rudder/VPC/Slaw/MFG.

STECS is a dream for the Viper, will never leave you wanting for more controls.

 

[JATownes]

@tabascosauz That gunfighter base is just a beauty to behold. I absolutely love my STECS and like to imagine I'm getting better in the F-16, but I still suck pretty bad. I really like the look of the Winwing F-16 throttle too.

And you're correct, the mount is an abomination! Took a hacksaw/dremel to it and had a blast putting it together with my oldest son. It looks horrendous up close, but gets the job done really well.

I'm hoping for some pedals for Christmas, otherwise I'll have to grab myself some in the new year. The twist rudder control is less than optimal.

 

[tabascosauz]

@tabascosauz That gunfighter base is just a beauty to behold. I absolutely love my STECS and like to imagine I'm getting better in the F-16, but I still suck pretty bad. I really like the look of the Winwing F-16 throttle too.

And you're correct, the mount is an abomination! Took a hacksaw/dremel to it and had a blast putting it together with my oldest son. It looks horrendous up close, but gets the job done really well.

I'm hoping for some pedals for Christmas, otherwise I'll have to grab myself some in the new year. The twist rudder control is less than optimal.

We're all on the same road! Viper is a temperamental mistress in bfm. Always needs more practice. If you are a F16 main, I actually think NXT EVO is more suitable than Gunfighter.

I think you will very much enjoy an upgrade to pedals. Viper is squirrelly on the ground and only having twist rudder is counterproductive on short runways and/or heavy crosswind. Admittedly you might prefer pedals with brakes; T-rudder is lovely but MCG Pro/Ultimate is a natural pairing with it (brake lever). It is probably the most compact rudder solution on the market, though, hard to beat.

Just noticed we've got the exact same UPS too.

 

[JATownes]

I've seen quite a few people try to recreate the cockpit of the plane they're flying and I was very tempted for the Viper, but I like trying different planes out. I have tried to create a "universal" cockpit that is functional across all aircraft. With the correct mappings I can get pretty close to my cockpit functionally being the same across different aircraft.

I think pedals are the next in the list. You're correct that the F-16 gets more than a little unstable on takeoffs in windy conditions with an unbalanced load out. The twist rudder on the NXT is usable, but far from any precision or being able to "hold" the rudder in a constant position during takeoff.

If anyone is thinking of getting into DCS/Elite Dangerous/MSFS2020/Star Citizen/Etc. I'd recommend doing a little research before buying a HOTAS. There are some really good specialty brands around, but they aren't usually found on Amazon or other retail sites. It costs a little more up front, but well worth the money in the long run.

JAT

 

[tabascosauz]

I've seen quite a few people try to recreate the cockpit of the plane they're flying and I was very tempted for the Viper, but I like trying different planes out. I have tried to create a "universal" cockpit that is functional across all aircraft. With the correct mappings I can get pretty close to my cockpit functionally being the same across different aircraft.

There are some very impressive creations out there (e.g. Warthog Project) but I can never understand that kind of dedication to a single plane you are right, VKB hardware adapts very well to different planes.

From your experience with procedures on GA aircraft, might be worth checking out the viper in BMS as well. Falcon 4.0 is cheap on the steam store too.

The twist rudder on the NXT is usable, but far from any precision or being able to "hold" the rudder in a constant position during takeoff.

This is the gist of it; whenever you want to make changes to your rudder input with the twist, it has to first return to center which is jarring. One side of the T-rudder cam has no center detent so all will be one fluid movement throughout.

Winwing is also coming out with new pedals soon (just typical WW delays from doing too many things at once). They look to be a fierce competitor to the Crosswinds, so that might be worth waiting for and checking out if you're not in a hurry.

Being an Orion1 owner before STECS, I'm well aware of WW quality control, but still always excited to see what they can do. imo current UFC makers need a kick in the rear for the prices they are asking (Simgear, Buddyfox, Total Controls, Multipurpose UFC, Tek creations), and WW might be the one to deliver that kick. The block60 combined DED+UFC is nifty for data entry, and at that price maybe even good value for other planes:



Not sure how you have the SEM bound at the moment, but using SW1/SW2 for the 4way UFC dobber + DED increment/decrement switch was unexpectedly nice to have

 

[Bill_Bright]

Outside of a real flight simulator when I was still in the AF, and another at a Cessna flight school, I don't think I have ever seen such a setup. I was almost surprised to see that was a car in a garage and not a plane in a hanger!

 

[JATownes]

Being an Orion1 owner before STECS, I'm well aware of WW quality control, but still always excited to see what they can do. imo current UFC makers need a kick in the rear for the prices they are asking (Simgear, Buddyfox, Total Controls, Multipurpose UFC, Tek creations), and WW might be the one to deliver that kick. The block60 combined DED+UFC is nifty for data entry, and at that price maybe even good value for other planes:

View attachment 324897

I am drooling over the entire WW ICP/MFD setups, especially with the active screens in the MFDs! My son, the 3d printer/electrical wizard guy, is looking into printing some casing to put some screens in the imitation MFDs I have. He saw a video on Youtube and I can't wait to see if it works! Sometimes having kids isn't such a pain in the ass after all!

Not sure how you have the SEM bound at the moment, but using SW1/SW2 for the 4way UFC dobber + DED increment/decrement switch was unexpectedly nice to have

I went through a ton of different iterations before I finally landed on a mapping setup I was comfortable with. There are so many controls I was quite overwhelmed, but once I got it figured out it became muscle memory. I ended up mapping the dobber to the bottom most HAT on the STECS, but all of the other ICP buttons are mapped to the FSM-GA panel to roughly correspond to the location in the jet. That keeps the eye tracking in roughly the right position when I go to adjust/input data on the ICP. Below are my bindings for the F-16...the MFDs are of course mapped to their corresponding buttons in the aircraft. I kept this up on my secondary monitor while I was learning the plane, but now I've got MOST of it memorized.

I'm stoked to know someone else here at TPU is also a flight junkie! I thought I was the only one around.

JAT

 

[freeagent]

So.. do those controls provide feedback, or resistance? Would be neat to feel the forces you would feel on the rudder and maybe on the aileron's too..

I could see how people could get into this. I am still playing with the discovery flights with an Xbox controller, but I find the game to be peaceful, I like that.

 

[JATownes]

So.. do those controls provide feedback, or resistance? Would be neat to feel the forces you would feel on the rudder and maybe on the aileron's too..

I could see how people could get into this. I am still playing with the discovery flights with an Xbox controller, but I find the game to be peaceful, I like that.

Unfortunately they do not. There are some options out there, but they get really pricey, as in too pricey to justify for my "hobby." The VKB sticks have interchangeable springs for different return strength and dry clutches for the axis to control the resistance, including the ability to disable an axis entirely, but nothing like active force feedback.

With respect to the discovery flights being peaceful, I found MSFS2020 general aviation flights to be very relaxing. When my wife got me the yoke, I had never really had a desire to learn general aviation, but did not want to disrespect her gift. In hindsight I'm extremely grateful for the gift. It sent me down a crazy rabbit hole of learning how to "really" fly a plane, instead of the arcade type stuff I had done in the past. (Though I wouldn't recommend anyone hand me the controls of an actual plane! ) I like to do long multi state/ country flights on a Saturday for hours. It's very relaxing and it's a great distraction from the weekly stress.

If you're playing with the Xbox controller, I'd really recommend something like the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro instead. You can snag one for about 30 bucks or so and it's a substantially better user experience.

JAT

 

[tabascosauz]

So.. do those controls provide feedback, or resistance? Would be neat to feel the forces you would feel on the rudder and maybe on the aileron's too..

I could see how people could get into this. I am still playing with the discovery flights with an Xbox controller, but I find the game to be peaceful, I like that.

Rhino FFB takes center stage for force feedback, but the usual price/wait time/waitlist/size caveats apply. F-16 doesn't benefit either from the Rhino due to the way the Viper stick works, I'm sure plenty of people do run a center stick for F-16 like I do, but at the moment I think the rhino software doesn't add anything for the F-16

F-16, F-22, F-35 all use the same general style of side stick: force sensing, either very little or no physical movement, no force feedback because it's pure fbw

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[freeagent]

Thank you kindly sir

 

[tabascosauz]

View attachment 324905

Holy crap! Mad respect. I gotta get off my ass and finish mine. Only got around to doing my STECS one.

Looking at your FSM-GA layout, that's why I've been itching for a UFC - hard to bind number keys without a numpad (which itself is not useful for other stuff). You've got a very intuitive system going for 1-8 though.

 

[JATownes]

Yeah, the 9 and 0 got weird, but now that I'm used to it, it's second nature. The AA and AG Master Mode locations worked really good though, as well as the DED switch.

I'm in the process of mapping the controls for the P-51, but it's been a long, arduous task because I keep getting distracted blowing up stuff in the F-16, not to mention wasting tons of time playing in the mission editor.

Do you play any space sims? Trying to find some other 6-DOF games to play, but can't really find many. I did SW Squadrons and it was fun, but short. I really enjoyed Elite Dangerous to start, but it got boring rather fast. My problem is between all my kids (I have 5), wife and work, I only get to play on the weekends, and that's if we don't have school games/programs/meetings to do. That pretty much eliminates all online multi player games because I get my ass handed to me by some 12 year old with 10x the playtime, which for some reason doesn't lower my stress level.

I've learned in my old age that I now have the money for the cool toys, but no time to use them. The kids have all the time to use them, but no money for them. Life is cruel with her jokes sometimes.

JAT

 

[kapone32]

I love these kinds of threads.

 

[tabascosauz]

No space sims here. Got lots of ongoing Strike Eagle and BMS Viper learning still to do, might pick up the Phantom. Sometimes I hop back into a war thunder custom battle in first person for some relaxing therapy, but that's the extent of it.

I don't have 5 kids to look after haha, but can relate to the thoughts about multiplayer. DCS public PvP is just.....there are some people who are really good at the meta, but hiding in the hills with radar off to lob 27ETs at people is not my thing. Thinking about joining a squadron and/or hopping on some PvE servers for a change. Singleplayer has its charms but it's only one part of the equation.

I've learned in my old age that I now have the money for the cool toys, but no time to use them. The kids have all the time to use them, but no money for them. Life is cruel with her jokes sometimes.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[ShiBDiB]

I'm jealous of these setups, but I don't have the kind of disposable income to share anything here

 

[izy]

The question is , can you fly a real plane now?

 

[JATownes]

The question is , can you fly a real plane now?

If the zombie apocalypse comes and I manage to get my hands on anything short of an airliner, I could probably get it up in the air, navigate to where we would like to go, line up for landing and put on a great show exploding on the runway in a giant fireball for everyone to see!

Other than that, I don't think I'll ever try. I could POSSIBLY come up with the money to buy a small plane, but could never afford the maintenance and storage fees to make it feasible. Imaginary flying is good enough for me!

 

[ShiBDiB]

If the zombie apocalypse comes and I manage to get my hands on anything short of an airliner, I could probably get it up in the air, navigate to where we would like to go, line up for landing and put on a great show exploding on the runway in a giant fireball for everyone to see!

Other than that, I don't think I'll ever try. I could POSSIBLY come up with the money to buy a small plane, but could never afford the maintenance and storage fees to make it feasible. Imaginary flying is good enough for me!

A small cessna/equivalent really isn't hard to fly with flight sim knowledge. The main issue would be handling IFE's of any kind because you don't have the time in cockpit to be calm and not freak out.

 

[JATownes]

A small cessna/equivalent really isn't hard to fly with flight sim knowledge. The main issue would be handling IFE's of any kind because you don't have the time in cockpit to be calm and not freak out.

Yep! I freak out when failures happen in the sim, leading to screw ups that occasionally end in death.

Punching out of an F-16 after getting nailed by a SAM is pretty cool though. My favorite was getting hit by AAA and looking out the cockpit to see my wing on fire. Good times man!

 

[Sabbath]

I am grounded for a while as my TM warthog stick base gave up the ghost, I have had it for nearly 10 years, back when it was £299 for the throttle and stick, so it owes me nothing. I have the new Virpil Warbrd base on backorder so hopefully a month and I will be back on DCS in the Hog dropping bombs from 20,000 feet. Mine is a modest setup, just the Throttle and stick on a couple of desk clamps and a set of Cessna Pro rudder pedals, with a Pico 4, it's a beautiful sight looking out over the wing of a spitfire in VR.