NVIDIA BIOS Signature Lock Broken, vBIOS Modding and Crossflash Enabled by Groundbreaking New Tools

[R-T-B]

I'm trying to think about what the last decent overclockable or moddable hardware was

Easy. I remember because I owned one. It was the Nehalem i7 920. Some samples could push 4Ghz. Nothing like that since.

My first real powerhouse rig (a watercooled Swiftech triple rad custom mess nicknamed "Chernobyl") used such a chip.

 

[Chrispy_]

Easy. I remember because I owned one. It was the Nehalem i7 920. Some samples could push 4Ghz. Nothing like that since.

My first real powerhouse rig (a watercooled Swiftech triple rad custom mess nicknamed "Chernobyl") used such a chip.

Yeah, that was 15 years ago. My last really good overclock was probably at a similar time with a build for a friend where I grabbed a late-era Core2 with a 10x 800FSB and just ran it at 1333FSB.

AFAIK that was stable for about 9 years until she asked me for the next budget bargain and IIRC the Pentium AE was good for overclocking, but woeful as a 2C/2T product in a 4C/8T era. I think she settled on a used 3770K

Wow, we're off-topic, but I guess the Nvidia bios lock isn't really broken so it's been at least 6 pages of ramble anyway

 

[R-T-B]

Wow, we're off-topic, but I guess the Nvidia bios lock isn't really broken so it's been at least 6 pages of ramble anyway

I'd say it's more weakened than broken. You still need some serious tools to mess with anything newer than Pascal.

 

[Mikl666]

The 2060S is a 2070 in die name only. Just because both cards use TU106 silicon doesn't mean that all of the units on 2060S silicon are free of defects.

A long time ago, when quad-core CPUs were bleeding-edge, AMD released a 3-core CPU to bridge the gap between dual-core and quad-cores for those on a less-than-infinite budget. The Phenom X3 was, in theory, unlockable to re-enable the disabled core. I personally purchased around 50 of these CPUs and attempted to unlock every single one of them. I was buying 6 a month for most of a year and in hindsight, although about half of them "worked" as quad cores, time proved that many of those quad core Phenom X3s were unstable or ultimately a false economy.

Yes, it's true that sometimes manufacturers will label a fully-functioning part as a lesser part simply to meet market demand. Don't count on "sometimes" being very often. For the overwhelming majority of cases, things are branded as the best possible variant of what they are. AMD, Intel, Nvidia don't leave money on the table unnecessarily. If that 2060S could possibly have sold as a more profitable 2070, you know it would have been. Only marginal GPUs get cut and the 2070 was on sale almost all the way through the 2060S's sales life so I'll let you decide the reason your 2060S didn't make the cut to be a 2070.

I honestly miss the old days...

• 486's and Pentiums that would run at 50% overclocks simply by changing the FSB
• Celeron 300A @564MHz outperforming Pentium II 450 flagships by a wide margin.
• Adding 50% more clockspeed to an Athlon or Duron using a pencil to draw lines between dots on the CPU package
• Geforce2 and Geforce3 unlocks of disabled cores
• Radeon 9500 > 9700Pro mod using a single $0.04 resistor
• Low-end Core2 overclocks of over 50%

I'm trying to think about what the last decent overclockable or moddable hardware was, and it was probably at least a decade ago. These days you get what you pay for and all of the manfacturers make sure that nothing is left on the table because that's wasted profit.

Thanks chrispy for the reply. I hope you are wrong, and being naive, and right at the same time because i hate those practices and I hope they are not done by anyone now but, from past experience, I just expect the worst from anyone when GODmoney is involved.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Thanks chrispy for the reply. I hope you are wrong, and being naive, and right at the same time because i hate those practices and I hope they are not done by anyone now but, from past experience, I just expect the worst from anyone when GODmoney is involved.

There is nothing wrong with releasing cutdown parts for lower prices. If we only had low yield full-die, high-grade silicon parts, no one would afford semiconductors. This had always been coming, and we knew that even back in the golden days of resistor mods or parts that had ample headroom left in them.

 

[Mikl666]

There is nothing wrong with releasing cutdown parts for lower prices. If we only had low yield full-die, high-grade silicon parts, no one would afford semiconductors. This had always been coming, and we knew that even back in the golden days of resistor mods or parts that had ample headroom left in them.

My guess is that the price for what you call "cutdown parts" is the real price the "not cutdown parts" should have. That they don't sell the cutdown parts cheaper but the not cutdown ones more expensive, and that's what I find reprehensive. I was not into computers at those early days you mention but to something become common doesn't make it right (e.g. slavery). You can think whatever you want about it, I am just expressing how I feel about that and I don't expect you or any other to share my views just that, as i do not try to push my views onto others, you don't try to push your views onto me.
That's it, thanks for your time Dr.

 

[Chrispy_]

My guess is that the price for what you call "cutdown parts" is the real price the "not cutdown parts" should have. That they don't sell the cutdown parts cheaper but the not cutdown ones more expensive, and that's what I find reprehensive. I was not into computers at those early days you mention but to something become common doesn't make it right (e.g. slavery). You can think whatever you want about it, I am just expressing how I feel about that and I don't expect you or any other to share my views just that, as i do not try to push my views onto others, you don't try to push your views onto me.
That's it, thanks for your time Dr.

It's not rocket science. Any vendor has a development cost, an overhead cost, and a profit margin. Nvidia's profit margin is the second highest in the industry but if you don't know that already you've been living under a rock for 15+ years. They set prices as high as they can get away with because they're a business not a charity. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that this is reality.

 

[AusWolf]

My guess is that the price for what you call "cutdown parts" is the real price the "not cutdown parts" should have. That they don't sell the cutdown parts cheaper but the not cutdown ones more expensive, and that's what I find reprehensive. I was not into computers at those early days you mention but to something become common doesn't make it right (e.g. slavery). You can think whatever you want about it, I am just expressing how I feel about that and I don't expect you or any other to share my views just that, as i do not try to push my views onto others, you don't try to push your views onto me.
That's it, thanks for your time Dr.

Your concern about pricing isn't wrong, although, without knowing how much the design and manufacturing of a GPU chip costs, it is impossible to know whether you're right or wrong, I'm afraid.

 

[Mikl666]

Your concern about pricing isn't wrong, although, without knowing how much the design and manufacturing of a GPU chip costs, it is impossible to know whether you're right or wrong, I'm afraid.

you are right wolf, that's why i said "my guess is".

It's not rocket science. Any vendor has a development cost, an overhead cost, and a profit margin. Nvidia's profit margin is the second highest in the industry but if you don't know that already you've been living under a rock for 15+ years. They set prices as high as they can get away with because they're a business not a charity. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that this is reality.

if i can somehow level the playing field at least a bit, why not try and do it?

 

[AusWolf]

you are right wolf, that's why i said "my guess is".

if i can somehow level the playing field at least a bit, why not try and do it?

You can only level the playing field by not buying products at a price that you disagree with.

 

[Mikl666]

You can only level the playing field by not buying products at a price that you disagree with.

that's not an option saddly.

 

[AusWolf]

that's not an option saddly.

Why? You either work with your GPU, in which case it more than justifies its price, or you game on it, in which case, it's not a necessity, so you can buy one when its price comes down, or just find one on the used market.

 

[Mikl666]

Why? You either work with your GPU, in which case it more than justifies its price, or you game on it, in which case, it's not a necessity, so you can buy one when its price comes down, or just find one on the used market.

I always buy on the used market but people base the used price on the new price (generally a percentage of that price is the used price). I use my pc for both things and "being robbed" is never justified (only two companies in such a huge market is not really "market competition" (the same happens with amd and intel in the cpu & motherboard chipset market)). Even if I could turn that priciary abuse into a 1.000.000. dollars profit in an instant and if that abuse was just of one dollar above the "fair" price for that product, it would still be "unfair".

Theft is theft, no matter how you want to look at it or how permissive you are with thieves.

 

[chrcoluk]

if many gpu's are already burned because manufacturers miscalculate the limits imagine now with people tuning firmware to get an extra 5%

I think the forum will get busier when people start posting their stock or low level factory o/c card is unstable with a bios from a flagship factory overclocked card. (not realising they have a crappier lower quality chip). Wouldnt surprise me if we even see cross brand flashing.

The one time I custom bios flashed a card was a bios tuned by me to avoid having to do a RMA, card was unstable on its shipped configuration, so I adjusted voltages in the frequency table to a higher amount, this is before the days afterburner added its custom curve option. Card was a EVGA 970 FTW. It couldnt handle the factory o/c FTW bios.

 

[AusWolf]

I always buy on the used market but people base the used price on the new price (generally a percentage of that price is the used price). I use my pc for both things and "being robbed" is never justified (only two companies in such a huge market is not really "market competition" (the same happens with amd and intel in the cpu & motherboard chipset market)). Even if I could turn that priciary abuse into a 1.000.000. dollars profit in an instant and if that abuse was just of one dollar above the "fair" price for that product, it would still be "unfair".

Theft is theft, no matter how you want to look at it or how permissive you are with thieves.

I'm confused now. Is your issue that you can't afford a GPU, or the fact that AMD and Nvidia are making a profit? If it's the latter, then it's all mental and I'd suggest just getting over it. If you're making a profit on the work you do with your GPU, then why shouldn't they?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending scummy business practices. I'm only suggesting a healthier mindset - looking at your own benefit instead of getting upset over something that you can do nothing about. Not to mention, if you were the CEO of either company, I'm sure you'd do the same.

 

[Mikl666]

I'm confused now. Is your issue that you can't afford a GPU, or the fact that AMD and Nvidia are making a profit? If it's the latter, then it's all mental and I'd suggest just getting over it. If you're making a profit on the work you do with your GPU, then why shouldn't they?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending scummy business practices. I'm only suggesting a healthier mindset - looking at your own benefit instead of getting upset over something that you can do nothing about. Not to mention, if you were the CEO of either company, I'm sure you'd do the same.

There's "profit" and "overprofit". there's "fair" and "unfair". i've already made clear what i think about each of them and where i think "overprofit" and "unfair" start. If you are ok with companies going besides those limits, fine, it's your life, it's your money, do whatever you wanty with them but when i talk about MY money and MY life please keep your opinions to yourself as i keep mine about you (It seems we are very different people and so you will never be able to "walk in my shoes" as probably i wouldn't be able to do that in yours).
Also, if i cared for my mindset, i wouldn't even do anything besides sleeping, so keep your health tips to yourself.

 

[AusWolf]

There's "profit" and "overprofit". there's "fair" and "unfair". i've already made clear what i think about each of them and where i think "overprofit" and "unfair" start. If you are ok with companies going besides those limits, fine, it's your life, it's your money, do whatever you wanty with them but when i talk about MY money and MY life please keep your opinions to yourself as i keep mine about you (It seems we are very different people and so you will never be able to "walk in my shoes" as probably i wouldn't be able to do that in yours).
Also, if i cared for my mindset, i wouldn't even do anything besides sleeping, so keep your health tips to yourself.

You define what's fair and unfair for you. You don't get to define it from AMD/Intel/Nvidia's side. As long as there's plenty of people buying 4090s, Nvidia can sell them for how much they want to. Besides that, I said exactly what you just said: I'm not telling you what to do. I do me, you do you. If I have a 1050 Ti for sale for $2000, you are free to walk away and not buy it. As long as someone else is stupid enough to buy it, your criticism will change nothing, unfortunately.

Before you think, I'm not defending any company, just stating that we live in a capitalist economy. Our opinions on fairness don't change anything, only money (or the lack of it) does.

 

[Mikl666]

You define what's fair and unfair for you. You don't get to define it from AMD/Intel/Nvidia's side. As long as there's plenty of people buying 4090s, Nvidia can sell them for how much they want to. Besides that, I said exactly what you just said: I'm not telling you what to do. I do me, you do you. If I have a 1050 Ti for sale for $2000, you are free to walk away and not buy it. As long as someone else is stupid enough to buy it, your criticism will change nothing, unfortunately.

Before you think, I'm not defending any company, just stating that we live in a capitalist economy. Our opinions on fairness don't change anything, only money (or the lack of it) does.

i don't think i will change anything (i'd like to i am also realistic) but still i am allowed to think whatever i want. I just stated what i thought about the issue. as I said YOU can do anything you want. I don't expect followers (i'd like to have them because if the majority refused to accept the practices I reject, those companies would have to quit the business or behave in different ways but i am not a leader of anything nor i want to be). As YOU said, I stated how I define "overprofit" and "unfair" practices are and if you don't agree with how I defined those terms or if you think they are not even aplicable, that's something i most probably can't change so i won't try to.
I speak for myself, not for YOU or anyone else.

I'd prefer to be the wolf, not the sheep but it seems you are very comfortrable with your wooly exterior.

i don't think i will change anything (i'd like to i am also realistic) but still i am allowed to think whatever i want even so. I just stated what i thought about the issue in case you didn't notice (i used "I" not "YOU", not "WE"/"US"). As I said YOU can do anything you want. I don't expect followers (i'd like to have them because if the majority refused to accept the practices I reject, those companies would have to quit the business or behave in different ways but i am not a leader of anything nor i want to be). As YOU said, I stated how I define "overprofit" and "unfair" practices are (again, i used "I" not "YOU", not "WE"/"US")and if you don't agree with how I defined those terms or if you think they are not even aplicable, that's something i most probably can't change so i won't try to.

I speak for myself, not for YOU or anyone else.

I'd prefer to be the wolf, not the sheep but it seems you are very comfortrable with your wooly exterior.

 

[AusWolf]

i don't think i will change anything (i'd like to i am also realistic) but still i am allowed to think whatever i want. I just stated what i thought about the issue. as I said YOU can do anything you want. I don't expect followers (i'd like to have them because if the majority refused to accept the practices I reject, those companies would have to quit the business or behave in different ways but i am not a leader of anything nor i want to be). As YOU said, I stated how I define "overprofit" and "unfair" practices are and if you don't agree with how I defined those terms or if you think they are not even aplicable, that's something i most probably can't change so i won't try to.
I speak for myself, not for YOU or anyone else.

I'd prefer to be the wolf, not the sheep but it seems you are very comfortrable with your wooly exterior.

Let me tell you something about myself.

I've been building and fixing computers since I was a little kid in the '90s. I've had tons of hardware from lots of different vendors. Over the last few years (basically since the covid lockdowns), I've been buying hardware for myself to mess around with and sell, or keep as spare parts. I've had many different CPUs and GPUs even from the same generations. I have a room full of PC stuff.

Despite all the above, I refused to buy a single Ampere card for my personal use just as I refused to buy a single Ada one as well because I disagree with Nvidia's current business practices. Ray tracing debuted 5 years ago, but we've still yet to see any benefit that doesn't come with a significant performance cost. The other selling point is DLSS, which is not as unique as Nvidia would like it to be with FSR and XeSS around. Yet, these two serve as the main selling points that I'm supposed to pay extra for. Why exactly? Nobody knows. It's just "the way it's meant to be played", apparently. So no, thank you, I'll buy Nvidia again when they come back to their senses and release another great breakthrough architecture at affordable prices like they did with Pascal. Until then, I'm happy with what I've got, and I'll keep refusing to buy overpriced Nvidia cards.

Will any of this change anything? Absolutely not. If you think I'm sheep because I have some sense of how modern capitalism works and I know my place in it, so be it.

 

[Mikl666]

Let me tell you something about myself.

I've been building and fixing computers since I was a little kid in the '90s. I've had tons of hardware from lots of different vendors. Over the last few years (basically since the covid lockdowns), I've been buying hardware for myself to mess around with and sell, or keep as spare parts. I've had many different CPUs and GPUs even from the same generations. I have a room full of PC stuff.

Despite all the above, I refused to buy a single Ampere card for my personal use just as I refused to buy a single Ada one as well because I disagree with Nvidia's current business practices. Ray tracing debuted 5 years ago, but we've still yet to see any benefit that doesn't come with a significant performance cost. The other selling point is DLSS, which is not as unique as Nvidia would like it to be with FSR and XeSS around. Yet, these two serve as the main selling points that I'm supposed to pay extra for. Why exactly? Nobody knows. It's just "the way it's meant to be played", apparently. So no, thank you, I'll buy Nvidia again when they come back to their senses and release another great breakthrough architecture at affordable prices like they did with Pascal. Until then, I'm happy with what I've got, and I'll keep refusing to buy overpriced Nvidia cards.

Will any of this change anything? Absolutely not. If you think I'm sheep because I have some sense of how modern capitalism works and I know my place in it, so be it.

I know how modern capitalism works but it doesn't mean i am glad with it or not hate it. Sure, you alone can't change shit (me neither) but at least you can try to teach by example or even try to literally boicot shitty companies with shitty practices (we are in the mass communication era yet we "gather" to share cat pics but not to fight for what's ours... i find that pretty stupid... but extremely common) as i said in my earlier message. The only reason why i want an Nvidia card is to try out PhysX because as you said, almost no one uses ray tracing and, in the few cases when it is used, it supposedly turns a modern pc into an 80's calculator (that's what i've heard 'cause i've never had an nvidia card yet).

 

[AusWolf]

I know how modern capitalism works but it doesn't mean i am glad with it or not hate it. Sure, you alone can't change shit (me neither) but at least you can try to teach by example or even try to literally boicot shitty companies with shitty practices (we are in the mass communication era yet we "gather" to share cat pics but not to fight for what's ours... i find that pretty stupid... but extremely common) as i said in my earlier message. The only reason why i want an Nvidia card is to try out PhysX because as you said, almost no one uses ray tracing and, in the few cases when it is used, it supposedly turns a modern pc into an 80's calculator (that's what i've heard 'cause i've never had an nvidia card yet).

That's fair.

I am actually boycotting Nvidia for my personal use as long as they keep their prices artificially inflated. I do think the 4060 is a good entry/mid-range card, and I'd love to have one in my HTPC, but I'm not gonna pay £300 for it when my 7800 XT was only £500. The higher end offerings (4070's and 4080's) are even worse values. So no, thank you.

As for recommendations for others, sometimes Nvidia is the sensible option, so I keep an open mind. A colleague of mine was in search of a gaming laptop not long ago, and while mobile 6800 XTs do exist (supposedly), they're nowhere to be found. Nvidia it was, then. My brother upgraded his PC about a year ago, and I was conflicted whether to get him a 6600 or a 2060. The 6600 is faster, and much better value overall, but he likes using Ansel which is Nvidia's proprietary tech, so an AMD card unfortunately, was not an option.

 

[95Viper]

Let's get back on topic.

 

[AusWolf]

Let's get back on topic.

You're right, will do. Sorry for the off.

 

[b1k3rdude]

Interesting, I would actually lot to create a version of my existing 4080 bios that lets me undervolt the card via a voltage curve, similar to how I do it via Afterburner.

 

[nicetigo]

Setting a reasonable fan curve for over-the-top cooled GPUs is finally possible, no more 1000 RPM or other decided by the manufacturer minimum... and another reason not to buy 7xxx AMD that is still locked?

But how exactly is it possible, since there is no any bios editing software. Don't get it.

I have an Asus RTX 2080 super blower edition card. It's terrible. Blower spins on 40% no matter what. The temperature literally goes up to 90 degrees. The card gets 65 degrees max with a little of undervolt and locking the blower on 50 %. So I was wondering if there is any way to edit bios at least to set the rpm correctly.