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7800X3D vs 14900K video by HWUB. What would you choose for gaming?

the54thvoid

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Wait what! How did this thread get unlocked? what dingus did that! as the answer to the OP's question is clearly and obviously the 7800X3D as shown and proven in the video :kookoo: Like DIR! and many other videos. Its not rocket science!

It was agreed with W1zzard after he received feedback.
 
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I'm not about the read the whole 8 pages, I admit, which seems to have flirted with a general Intel vs AMD at times, so I'll just answer the question in the title.

If I were choosing one for gaming, it would be the Ryzen 7 7800X3D no question. The main reason is because it is cheaper, so it has a better value by virtue of being similar performance for less. Consuming less power is a plus, but not a major factor on its own.

The reason I would go with this is because I don't tend to need the massive amount of cores the Core i9 (or even Core i7) offer, but I want at least 8 performance cores, and I tend to play CPU heavy games a lot (read as, Minecraft Java edition). Going from the Ryzen 7 3700X to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D brought a pretty substantial performance uplift in this game, and while I don't have a 5700X or 5800X to compare to, I can't imagine the increase I saw came entirely from the Zen 2 to Zen 3 generation uplift. It was so big that while I was troubleshooting a PC issue and put my older Ryzen 7 3700X back in, I could no longer move around pre-generated (lighter to load) chunks at a render distance of 32 and hold 60 FPS like the Ryzen 7 5800X3D could (it can even do this at up to 48 chunks, but there are some increased momentary stutters). I'm waiting for the Zen 5 X3D chip and will likely move to that, and I'm seriously excited to see how Intel's "throw extra cache at things" approach works out.

Unfortunately, finding exact hardware becnchmarking with Minecraft Java is... difficult at best due to how uncommon it is, probably due to the random and variable nature of the game.

In my eyes, the situation between Intel and AMD resemble the things they did a lot back in the early 2000s during the Athlon XP/64 versus Pentium 4 days, just not as bad for Intel now as it was back then.

This is how things were back then.

AMD often had cheaper products, with lower clock speeds, but higher IPC, and lower power consumption.

Intel would cost more, rum warmer, and had less performance in games, but better productivity performance.

That's more or less true today, with the exception that Intel is still rather competitive on gaming performance today. The biggest difference was that AMD had higher IPC and lower clock speed then, but had a slight advantage in the end, whereas now the first two are still true but they have a slight deficit. They're making up for it (and then some) with the X3D models. Intel would have the overall edge if you remove the X3D CPUs from the picture... but those exist, so it seems silly to say that.

Both seem viable to me, and this is certainly better than the mid 2010s. The CPU market is alright to me. Now if only the GPU market were like this! That's the one I could complain endlessly about.
 
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I made a decision not to buy a first gen stuff for AM5.
Actually I tested a X670E board briefly with Ryzen 7600 and the two chipset chips warmed the heatsink quite a lot and the memory training felt like a childs disease. Overall the board felt like a warm sick baby. So I decided to let it grow a bit. I wonder if the heatspreader will get some improvement in future, if felt tiny, thick and dumb.

Would you welcome if AMD made two versions of CPUs, one with thick dumb heatspreaders which are compatible with old coolers and the second version with thin heatspreaders, which would require changing a mounting hardware on a cooler or even a whole new cooler?

If I were choosing one for gaming, it would be the Ryzen 7 7800X3D no question. The main reason is because it is cheaper, so it has a better value by virtue of being similar performance for less. Consuming less power is a plus, but not a major factor on its own.
Cheaper than what? Not long ago it was not that cheaper than 14700K, which is much more powerful universal CPU (even if you limit it to some sane power draw), and now it is still a little bit more expensive than 14600K, which again is more powerful in raw computing.

I have a real trouble talking about Intel CPUs, because I feel that they are out of the box horribly set up. 14600K should have a real power limit of 100W, 14700K 140W and 14900K 160W.

If you started comparing 7800X3D with 14600K limited to 100W and did not concentrate on gaming only, I believe that the choice would not be that straightforward.
 
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Actually I tested a X670E board briefly with Ryzen 7600 and the two chipset chips warmed the heatsink quite a lot and the memory training felt like a childs disease. Overall the board felt like a warm sick baby. So I decided to let it grow a bit. I wonder if the heatspreader will get some improvement in future, if felt tiny, thick and dumb.

Would you welcome if AMD made two versions of CPUs, one with thick dumb heatspreaders which are compatible with old coolers and the second version with thin heatspreaders, which would require changing a mounting hardware on a cooler or even a whole new cooler?


Cheaper than what? Not long ago it was not that cheaper than 14700K, which is much more powerful universal CPU (even if you limit it to some sane power draw), and now it is still a little bit more expensive than 14600K, which again is more powerful in raw computing.

I have a real trouble talking about Intel CPUs, because I feel that they are out of the box horribly set up. 14600K should have a real power limit of 100W, 14700K 140W and 14900K 160W.

If you started comparing 7800X3D with 14600K limited to 100W and did not concentrate on gaming only, I believe that the choice would not be that straightforward.

Listen mr intel fanboy, the focus of the video is gaming, as is the focus for most people building gaming rigs - it's a very small minority who uses them for anything other than gaming, and lightweight tasks such as browsing and office... so gaming is what solely matters to the majority of people buying this kinda hardware.

"But intel is better in productivity !!!!11" is just intel fanboy coping.
 
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Listen mr intel funboy, the focus of the video is gaming, as is the focus for most people building gaming rigs - it's a very small minority who uses them for anything other than gaming, and lightweight tasks such as browsing and office... so gaming is what solely matters to the majority of people buying this kinda hardware.
Funboy? Why are you calling me a funboy? I am not a boy anymore and I am not funny, I am very serious. I have never been funny.

How would you justify choosing a 14900K for the video, when it is a totally inappropriate CPU for gaming, browsing and office? It is the most powerful desktop CPU for many multithread productive tasks on the market. It will see like maximal 20-30% utilisation during gaming.

I say - HUB, compare 7800X3D with 14600K limited to 100W and then talk, which one is a better CPU not only for gaming, but also as an universal CPU for other tasks.

We already know that it is going to loose in gaming and that it is made by using an older process giving it an energy efficiency disadvantage, but even with these two hurdles it may be a very usable chip.

I am worried that they will refuse to power limit the CPU. Saying that they need to test just stock CPUs and that it is unfair to compare stock and adjusted CPU.... It is hard to argue with that ...

It is really sad that Intel destroyed perfectly nice and efficient CPUs by selling them with insane power limits and frequencies.
 
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for game i choose i5/Ryzen 5.
 
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Funboy? Why are you calling me a funboy? I am not a boy anymore and I am not funny, I am very serious. I have never been funny.

How would you justify choosing a 14900K for the video, when it is a totally inappropriate CPU for gaming, browsing and office? It is the most powerful desktop CPU for many multithread productive tasks on the market. It will see like maximal 20-30% utilisation during gaming.

I say - HUB, compare 7800X3D with 14600K limited to 100W and then talk, which one is a better CPU not only for gaming, but also as an universal CPU for other tasks.

We already know that it is going to loose in gaming and that it is made by using an older process giving it an energy efficiency disadvantage, but even with these two hurdles it may be a very usable chip.

I am worried that they will refuse to power limit the CPU. Saying that they need to test just stock CPUs and that it is unfair to compare stock and adjusted CPU.... It is hard to argue with that ...

It is really sad that Intel destroyed perfectly nice and efficient CPUs by selling them with insane power limits and frequencies.
Impressive how you missed and keep on missing the point.
The review compares the best GAMING CPU from each maker for GAMING AND GAMING ONLY and out-of-the-box.

What is the best CPU AMD has for gaming? 7800X3D.
What is the best CPU Intel has for gaming? 14900K.
It doesn't matter if a 14600K is more efficient, if it is cheaper, etc. IT ISN'T INTEL'S BEST. Were it faster than a 14900K for gaming (and therefore Intel's best for it), it'd be relevant for the review. It ain't.

Hence, they compared the 7800X3D against the 14900K, and the 7800X3D comes ahead at GAMING. The review DOESN'T CARE about productivity or anything else.
 
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There are a few games that have issues especially with heavy RT but otherwise same for me at least not enough to make me want to upgrade although a 5800X3D with it being so cheap has been tempting.


It was really good till intel decided avx 512 was not for regular consumers and as much as I would love them to do the testing it is probably way to variable game to game to get a good idea what is the best option and emulating old games is probably pretty niche as it is.



Again to the OPs original post it is a fun comparison nothing more nobody in the market for an i9 unless they are stupidly buying it just for gaming is gonna look at the 7800X3D and go jeez that is the cpu to buy it's the same with people in the market for a 7950X/7950X3D..... At the end of the day we are all spending our own hard earned money so even if we want to buy a ridiculous cpu just for gaming that's up to the person making the purchase who cares otherwise. Some people like red coolaid some like blue others prefer green or a mix of the two nothing wrong with having a preference.

 
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Impressive how you missed and keep on missing the point.
The review compares the best GAMING CPU from each maker for GAMING AND GAMING ONLY and out-of-the-box.

What is the best AMD CPU has for gaming? 7800X3D.
What is the best Intel CPU has for gaming? 14900K.
It doesn't matter if a 14600K is more efficient, if it is cheaper, etc. IT ISN'T INTEL'S BEST. Were it faster than a 14900K for gaming (and therefore Intel's best for it), it'd be relevant for the review. It ain't.

Hence, they compared the 7800X3D against the 14900K, and the 7800X3D comes ahead at GAMING. The review DOESN'T CARE about productivity or anything else.
This!

Also, the video is a head-to-head comparison, and not buying guide.
 
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Impressive how you missed and keep on missing the point.
The review compares the best GAMING CPU from each maker for GAMING AND GAMING ONLY and out-of-the-box.

What is the best CPU AMD has for gaming? 7800X3D.
What is the best CPU Intel has for gaming? 14900K.
It doesn't matter if a 14600K is more efficient, if it is cheaper, etc. IT ISN'T INTEL'S BEST. Were it faster than a 14900K for gaming (and therefore Intel's best for it), it'd be relevant for the review. It ain't.

Hence, they compared the 7800X3D against the 14900K, and the 7800X3D comes ahead at GAMING. The review DOESN'T CARE about productivity or anything else.
Man, AMD has an advantage of being able to mount additional cache on top of the chip and now has the best gaming CPU, Intel LOST THIS BATTLE NOW AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT! There is no point in proving that yet again, when it is evident from hundreds of reviews!

And AMD even does not need any more publicity, because 7800X3D is one of the best selling CPUs now. And by total numbers of all sold desktop CPUs Intel is losing as well.

So why to make such a video, comparing very different CPUs by every metric, when the outcome is clear from the beginning?

7800X3D is made on an efficient process and has limited frequency, that makes it even more efficient. It uses just as much silicone as is needed for the job, nothing more. It has additional cache on it, which benefits it in gaming greatly.

14900K is on an older inefficient process, runs at high frequency, which makes it even more inefficient, has a ton of unnecessary for gaming stuff on it, has no special tech for gaming.

Are these really comparable?

No.

Intel is never going to win in gaming alone or efficiency alone in desktop CPUs now, yet they still make some nice useful chips, which unfortunately need to be first configured from the horrible melted hot silicone mess, that pours out the boxes.
 
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Man, AMD has an advantage of being able to mount additional cache on top of the chip and now has the best gaming CPU, Intel LOST THIS BATTLE NOW AND EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT! There is no point in proving that yet again, when it is evident from hundreds of reviews!

And AMD even does not need any more publicity, because 7800X3D is one of the best selling CPUs now. And by total numbers of all sold desktop CPUs Intel is losing as well.

So why to make such a video, comparing very different CPUs by every metric, when the outcome is clear from the beginning?

7800X3D is made on an efficient process and has limited frequency, that makes it even more efficient. It uses just as much silicone as is needed for the job, nothing more. I has additional cache on it, which benefits it in gaming greatly.

14900K is on an older inefficient process, runs at high frequency, which makes it even more inefficient, has a ton of unnecessary for gaming stuff on it, has no special tech for gaming.

Are these really comparable?

No.
Some compare it to the 7900X3D and guess what? Those arguments go out the window. BTW does not need special tech. Just a little more memory for the CPU cores. It is not AMD's fault that Intel have no room to add that to their existing stack.
 
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Impressive how you missed and keep on missing the point.
The review compares the best GAMING CPU from each maker for GAMING AND GAMING ONLY and out-of-the-box.

What is the best CPU AMD has for gaming? 7800X3D.
What is the best CPU Intel has for gaming? 14900K.
It doesn't matter if a 14600K is more efficient, if it is cheaper, etc. IT ISN'T INTEL'S BEST. Were it faster than a 14900K for gaming (and therefore Intel's best for it), it'd be relevant for the review. It ain't.

Hence, they compared the 7800X3D against the 14900K, and the 7800X3D comes ahead at GAMING. The review DOESN'T CARE about productivity or anything else.
Yeah but that's misleading -- the whole premise relies on the fact that AMD couldn't get the 7950X3D working correctly. The 7800X3D wasn't intended to be AMD's best, it's that way because of technical issues.

You're conflating BEST as a result. In the video he's like "oh it's the best" and then goes in to talk about pricing -- which is a product SKU discussion. He jumps from "Best" to SKU and power usage talk --- this is evident in the fact that he could make this video about the 7800x3d vs 7950X3d and have it literally be exactly the same video and come to the same conclusion.

If he compared it to processors actual gamers buy - like a $255 13600KF then the whole conversation would be different and much more reasonable. Now it's 30% cheaper and only 10% slower and it's a toss up whether you really need the x3d since at 1440P and 4k the difference is imperceptible with a 4090.

If I made a video of 7950X vs 13600K in gaming, and then was like "the 13600K is way better in gaming over the 7950X, and even trades blows with the 7950X3D, a processor at OVER DOUBLE the price" everyone would immediately point out the absurdity of that comparison. It's fine if they just kept the talk to performance and said "well they perform about the same 7800X3D is a bit faster" -- but as soon as you start talking price when they're clearly not the same class of product, AND DONT MENTION AT ALL the 14600K or any i5 for that matter, which is right there for that price and offers almost the same gaming performance, you're misleading.
 
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Cheaper than what? Not long ago it was not that cheaper than 14700K, which is much more powerful universal CPU (even if you limit it to some sane power draw), and now it is still a little bit more expensive than 14600K, which again is more powerful in raw computing.

I have a real trouble talking about Intel CPUs, because I feel that they are out of the box horribly set up. 14600K should have a real power limit of 100W, 14700K 140W and 14900K 160W.

If you started comparing 7800X3D with 14600K limited to 100W and did not concentrate on gaming only, I believe that the choice would not be that straightforward.
Well the thread title is comparing it to the 14900K, so I was answering that. I thought it was clear.

Of course the 14700K and 14600K are better values than the 14900K, but that wasn't the main question I was asked nor answering, though I sort of touched on those too.

I don't need the core counts that Core i9s or even Cores i7s provide.

At the same time, I want 8 performance cores (hence why the Core i5 is just a bit less ideal for my preferences).

I was talking about gaming, not universal performance.

And lastly, the 3D cache seems like it can be quite a boon to Minecraft, which is particularly important for me.

All those combined are why I answered as I did. I was, after all, merely answering based on what I'd choose. It's subjective. I wasn't stating that it's better objectively.
 
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I am not sure if anyone noted that yet, but I just checked and Intel has exactly the same blurb about gaming on each of i9, i7 and i5 pages. They have no special designated "best CPU for gaming".

The choice was up to Steve and he chose for the comparison with 7800X3D a CPU 3 times larger in core count.

Here is a quote from the video:

steve power quote.png


I would add to that, that the same insane as the difference is the person who chose such a CPU, when he could have chosen 14600K with 35W difference.
 
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I am not sure if anyone noted that yet... ... They have no special designated "best CPU for gaming".
It was mentioned earlier but good that you, as the OP, saw that too.
 
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I am not sure if anyone noted that yet, but I just checked and Intel has exactly the same blurb about gaming on each of i9, i7 and i5 pages. They have no special designated "best CPU for gaming".

The choice was up to Steve and he chose for the comparison with 7800X3D a CPU 3 times larger in core count.

Here is a quote from the video:

View attachment 325518

I would add to that, that the same insane as the difference is the person who chose such a CPU, when he could have chosen 14600K with 35W difference.
This really sums it up tbh -- if he did a video on the 14600k, the 13600k, the 13700k or the 14700k it would have been a nothingburger... this gets clicks because basically the 14900K is kind of a crazy power hog that is also expensive.

All of these chips below the 14900k are within 10% of each other on aggregate - with minor tuning they can hit each other's numbers or come extremely close...

Current gen from the 7700x up at 1440P and above are hardly distinguishable from one another, so don't spend $600 on a CPU that eats 375W and has 24 cores for gaming...
 
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Honestly, I summed this debate on my earlier post in this thread. Both have outstanding performance. You're given a choice between Core's grunt (consistently high performance with an extra kick) and Ryzen's finesse (a notable boon, provided your application is sensitive to and benefits from the large cache). Do all games favor Raphael X3D? No. Do all productivity applications favor Raptor Lake? No. Do we have a clear winner here? IMHO, No. This is excellent for us, as customers. It allows us to have a competitive market, and makes it extra easy to expose these corporations' dirty deeds.

On mobile segment, Intel's already taking a pounding. Meteor Regression Lake Core Ultra chips seem to be slower than the Raptor Lake ones and much worse than the corresponding AMD Hawk Point CPUs as well, not to mention they're super expensive... you won't see this competition affect the mobile market well.
 
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... don't spend $600 on a CPU that eats 375W and has 24 cores for gaming...
I would say do not buy such a CPU at all for anything, unless you know what is happening and how to adjust it. The only CPU which I could recommend to somebody, who will leave it as is out of the box is 14600K, because it is well usable under an air cooler and 160W of max power is something that most people doing normal things will never see.
Do all games favor Raphael X3D? No. Do all productivity applications favor Raptor Lake? No. Do we have a clear winner here? IMHO, No. This is excellent for us, as customers. It allows us to have a competitive market, and makes it extra easy to expose these corporations' dirty deeds.

On mobile segment, Intel's already taking a pounding. Meteor Regression Lake Core Ultra chips seem to be slower than the Raptor Lake ones and much worse than the corresponding AMD Hawk Point CPUs as well, not to mention they're super expensive... you won't see this competition affect the mobile market well.
Well AMD is winning in games and Intel accepted being a bit slower with a lazy approach of not trying to compete. They could have built that 10 P core chip with larger cache I mentioned earlier. I think that having problems and being lazy in the same time cannot have any positive impact.
 
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Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
I would say do not buy such a CPU at all for anything, unless you know what is happening and how to adjust it. The only CPU which I could recomment to somebody, who will leave it as is out of the box is 14600K, because it is well usable under an air cooler and 160W of max power is something that most people doing normal things will never see.

Well AMD is winning in games and Intel accepted being a bit slower with a lazy approach of not trying to compete. They could have built that 10 P core chip with larger cache I mentioned earlier. I think that having problems and being lazy in the same time cannot have any positive impact.

They just need larger cache -- games don't really care about IPC as much as they care about fast cache and memory.

If they made a chip that replaced the e cores with massive L4 cache it would be dominating in games.
 
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They just need larger cache -- games don't really care about IPC as much as they care about fast cache and memory.

If they made a chip that replaced the e cores with massive L4 cache it would be dominating in games.

Indeed, if intel wants back in the game, then they need to make a chip actually aimed at gaming... aka get rid of the e-waste cores, and get a big L4 cache, as you said. Intel has even done it before with the 5000 series i7.
 
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Benchmark Scores They're pretty good, nothing crazy.
Indeed, if intel wants back in the game, then they need to make a chip actually aimed at gaming... aka get rid of the e-waste cores, and get a big L4 cache, as you said. Intel has even done it before with the 5000 series i7.
ah yeah the broadwell chips -- those things were epic -- they were better fps and lows than much higher clocked new gen chips.

256mb L4 cache instead of e cores and no HT -- just 8 P cores at 6Ghz all core boost....

*wakes up* ah back to thread.
 
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Imagine if Intel had of paid TSMC to use 3d cache instead of AMD.

AMD 3D V-Cache powered Ryzen X3D processors have proved to be excellent performers for PC gaming. However, the 3D stacking of cache is a TSMC packaging technology for chips that AMD has taken advantage of - so it's not proprietary. 3dcache uses TSMC CoWoS.

For a new system, the AMD 7800X3D is the way to go, for a pure gaming rig for sure. If you already have an Intel rig, is it really worth spending the cash and switching to the 7800X3D now, not sure.
 
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Imagine if Intel had of paid TSMC to use 3d cache instead of AMD.
That'd require Intel to outsource the production of their CPU's to TSMC in the first place, and also to design the silicon so the cache stacking can be applied. I'm sure AMD had TSMC telling them it was a future possibility when they first were negotiating 5000-series design and prodution.
Either that, or getting Foveros to allow a similar process.
 
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