Anyone else deep into Flight Sims?

[tabascosauz]

I relented and bought the ICP in the end. Still trying to figure out the optimal layout here - could combine the two onto the stick mount again. It's just a shame I only have about a week to enjoy the DED before the Quest 3 arrives.

 

[Jetster]

I'm a novice pilot on MS flight sim, about 40 hours . I just have a Airbus controller by Thrustmaster

 

[izy]

I tried to play it with my Xbox joystick for 2 3 hours and for some reason i fail to keep the plane in the air longer than 5 10 min even with the autopilot )

 

[JATownes]

I relented and bought the ICP in the end. Still trying to figure out the optimal layout here - could combine the two onto the stick mount again. It's just a shame I only have about a week to enjoy the DED before the Quest 3 arrives.

View attachment 328826

I got my son a Quest 3 for Christmas and am waiting to borrow it in the next couple of weeks to try it out in DCS. I use the Tobii Eye Tracker and have really enjoyed it (once I got it dialed in).

I love that ICP though. I've really been tempted by the full Winwing VIPER MIP Setup, but they will not restock until Jan 31.

 

[tabascosauz]

I got my son a Quest 3 for Christmas and am waiting to borrow it in the next couple of weeks to try it out in DCS. I use the Tobii Eye Tracker and have really enjoyed it (once I got it dialed in).

I love that ICP though. I've really been tempted by the full Winwing VIPER MIP Setup, but they will not restock until Jan 31.

If I get my Quest 3 first, I'll definitely share some thoughts.

Wasn't aware that they made a Viper MIP product recently. It looks awesome, should fit great on your setup with side stick and all.

Center stick caused a lot of mounting frustrations; I eventually settled on this solution.

 

[Veseleil]

I know it's a tough one but... Are these really worth it for the flight sim fun, or I should jump straight to VKB?



Intended for the MSFS2020 (Steam build 1.7.14.0 at that, for many reasons), mostly for casual flights and special locations discovery. I used to occasionally play IL-2 Sturmovik, Lock On: Flaming Cliffs, Ace Combat series, wanted to invest serious money in sims like DCS, but I had none.

So one could argue that for the casual pilot this is quite overkill, but I won't be spending any amount on plastic toys.

I'm open for suggestions, as T1600M, T.flight HOTAS variants, Logi Extreme 3D Pro and similar are really not my cup of tea. Also Logi X56 HOTAS doesn't look any more convincing, apart from being obviously more expensive and solid than the entry ones I mentioned.
I like VKB lineup, it's available to order from both places I live, but for those I need to save much more, just as I'm saving for my Fanatec wheel setup I won't be getting anytime soon.

P.S.
I blame @tabascosauz for giving me ideas.

 

[JATownes]

I know it's a tough one but... Are these really worth it for the flight sim fun, or I should jump straight to VKB?

View attachment 329227View attachment 329226

Intended for the MSFS2020 (Steam build 1.7.14.0 at that, for many reasons), mostly for casual flights and special locations discovery. I used to occasionally play IL-2 Sturmovik, Lock On: Flaming Cliffs, Ace Combat series, wanted to invest serious money in sims like DCS, but I had none.

So one could argue that for the casual pilot this is quite overkill, but I won't be spending any amount on plastic toys.

I'm open for suggestions, as T1600M, T.flight HOTAS variants, Logi Extreme 3D Pro and similar are really not my cup of tea. Also Logi X56 HOTAS doesn't look any more convincing, apart from being obviously more expensive and solid than the entry ones I mentioned.
I like VKB lineup, it's available to order from both places I live, but for those I need to save much more, just as I'm saving for my Fanatec wheel setup I won't be getting anytime soon.

P.S.
I blame @tabascosauz for giving me ideas.

Straight to VKB in my opinion. The problem is the gimbal in the Thrustmasters. It is just a cup and ball, which is VERY prone to sticktion after some use and generally will need to be re-greased.

The VKB NXT Evo with SCG Grip is very price competitive, and uses a much better gimbal/sensors, and you can choose to go with dual sticks, or grab a STECS throttle. That is the entry level from VKB. Now @tabascosauz has a Gunfighter, which is much higher quality base than the NXT, as it is all metal and uses a completely different mechanism.

The T16000 throttle is nice, but the stick is a cup and ball, same with the Logi Extreme and X56, plus the X56 is plagued with quality control issues.

Hope this helps, but I can highly recommend VKB for their support and modularity.

@tabascosauz I love the mount you've come up with, but understand how pushing the stick all the way forward could cause some issues. But damn, do I still find that Gunfighter base and stick combo awesome!

JAT

 

[Veseleil]

Straight to VKB in my opinion. The problem is the gimbal in the Thrustmasters. It is just a cup and ball, which is VERY prone to sticktion after some use and generally will need to be re-greased.

The VKB NXT Evo with SCG Grip is very price competitive, and uses a much better gimbal/sensors, and you can choose to go with dual sticks, or grab a STECS throttle. That is the entry level from VKB. Now @tabascosauz has a Gunfighter, which is much higher quality base than the NXT, as it is all metal and uses a completely different mechanism.

The T16000 throttle is nice, but the stick is a cup and ball, same with the Logi Extreme and X56, plus the X56 is plagued with quality control issues.

Hope this helps, but I can highly recommend VKB for their support and modularity.

An answer that I expected. Thanks for clearing this out for me.

 

[tabascosauz]

An answer that I expected. Thanks for clearing this out for me.

I started with NXT too! Now it's even better in the form of NXT EVO. Wholeheartedly recommend, there's still nothing else to recommend in the budget segment.

The only potential concern is that I don't know who you would be buying from. Are you in Europe? I think it still would be FSC for the distributor, but not sure. For some small countries that aren't covered by VKB NA, VKB AU, or FSC (EU), they buy from VKB HQ (AliExpress).

FSC is the only distributor that noticeably falls behind the rest in terms of everything - sales, support, customer service, etc. They are a bit of a meme in the community at the moment for not having any STECS in stock since launch except tiny airlift batches, due to the ship load of STECS not showing up until literally yesterday. "VKB Somalia" joke was born directly out of FSC's woes. But things seem to be turning things around at FSC.

 

[Veseleil]

The only potential concern is that I don't know who you would be buying from. Are you in Europe? I think it still would be FSC for the distributor, but not sure. For some small countries that aren't covered by VKB NA, VKB AU, or FSC (EU), they buy from VKB HQ (AliExpress).

European market always falls behind USA market on so many levels. Yeah, we're screwed with this brand as well (similar to Fanatec) here in Europe.

FSC is the only distributor that noticeably falls behind the rest in terms of everything - sales, support, customer service, etc. They are a bit of a meme in the community at the moment for not having any STECS in stock since launch except tiny airlift batches, due to the ship load of STECS not showing up until literally yesterday. "VKB Somalia" joke was born directly out of FSC's woes. But things seem to be turning things around at FSC.

Speaking about empty stock, almost everything from the setups you two showed us is out of stock. Edit: you can check here for yourself.



Hope it gets sorted out in coming months, as I want this as the first piece of the puzzle. Edit: there are 3 pieces of no twist variant in stock though, it was 4 the last time I've checked.

 

[tabascosauz]

European market always falls behind USA market on so many levels. Yeah, we're screwed with this brand as well (similar to Fanatec) here in Europe.

View attachment 329275



Speaking about empty stock, almost everything from the setups you two showed us is out of stock. Edit: you can check here for yourself.

View attachment 329274

Hope it gets sorted out in coming months, as I want this as the first piece of the puzzle. Edit: there are 3 pieces of no twist variant in stock though, it was 4 the last time I've checked.

Non twist MCG is superior anyway. Slimmer and tougher grip adapter piece, simpler wiring inside, easier to install the grip fastener, and enables you to do the quick release bike clamp mod (see my above picture). MCG is also ergonomically a worse twist stick than SCG.

But you would need to have pedals for it lol

If you wanted to splurge as a first timer, SCG might make more sense for both NXT and GF4. It's more versatile as both center and side stick; MCG side stick is not desirable.

Non twist vs twist (nontwist did not have it's wiring harness installed yet):

 

[Veseleil]

MCG is also ergonomically a worse twist stick than SCG.

SCG is thicker, so I'm not so sure. I've small palms and short fingers. Also, it seems that MCG has fully adjustable palm rest, while SCG has only "Palm rest for small hands" addon with fixed height. I'm wondering about this value and how high can the palm rest go:



Because of this:

But you would need to have pedals for it lol

Eventually, of course.

If you wanted to splurge as a first timer, SCG might make more sense for both NXT and GF4. It's more versatile as both center and side stick; MCG side stick is not desirable.

I feel MCG is superior product, and there should be enough of goodies to justify the 140eur difference. GF4 base vs. NXT base same thoughts. GF4 has nicer flightstick options as well.

 

[tabascosauz]

SCG is thicker, so I'm not so sure. I've small palms and short fingers. Also, it seems that MCG has fully adjustable palm rest, while SCG has only "Palm rest for small hands" addon with fixed height. I'm wondering about this value and how high can the palm rest go:

I feel MCG is superior product, and there should be enough of goodies to justify the 140eur difference. GF4 base vs. NXT base same thoughts. GF4 has nicer flightstick options as well.

On MCGU I use the highest palm rest position even though my hands are huge. On SCGU I still fit comfortably with the small palmrest (you can either use no palmrest, small palmrest, or big palmrest). Overall my hand is the same size, but palm about 1cm skinnier than yours.

MCGU is bad for twist because of that lack of girth compared to SCG. It doesn't quite fill your palm - you gotta have a solid grip around the entire thing to have comfortable twist. MCGU is also just very heavy (~600g) as well, SCG was designed from the ground up for space sims (ie. twist) whereas MCGU is a reasonably faithful recreation of Su-35. But then again, twist is always a second rate solution inferior to pedals for air sims, so maybe the MCGU vs SCG distinction is not that important.

The thing about the MCGU is that it radically changes the feel of the GF base. It has a much higher minimum spring weight - any less will be floppy/poor centering/bad feel. It also has a much higher center of gravity due to a lot of weight being concentrated at the top of the grip. And makes for a very subpar/clumsy side stick due to its side and weight so it should really be center mounted, which causes its own issues and extra expenditure.

Which also means no practical and ergonomic desktop usage, while SCG GF can be used reasonably well with the desktop plate (as it's the same height as NXT EVO). So as someone who went SCG NXT => SCG GF => MCGU GF, there's no doubt MCGU is the best, but it's also a lot of risk for people not already well invested into the ecosystem.

 

[Veseleil]

whereas MCGU is a reasonably faithful recreation of Su-35

If you knew how much I love that aircraft, oh wait it's a poem actually, a human song to the birds of prey...

The thing about the MCGU is that it radically changes the feel of the GF base. It has a much higher minimum spring weight - any less will be floppy/poor centering/bad feel. It also has a much higher center of gravity due to a lot of weight being concentrated at the top of the grip. And makes for a very subpar/clumsy side stick due to its side and weight so it should really be center mounted, which causes its own issues and extra expenditure.

Which also means no practical and ergonomic desktop usage, while SCG GF can be used reasonably well with the desktop plate (as it's the same height as NXT EVO). So as someone who went SCG NXT => SCG GF => MCGU GF, there's no doubt MCGU is the best, but it's also a lot of risk for people not already well invested into the ecosystem.

The best would be to have both SCG and MCGU with a GF4 base. If only I could try them out in person. But I need to go one at a time.
I'd start with the MCGU GF4 set and the black box (I wonder does each component requires own main controller?), then STECS standard, T-rudder pedals, 2 extra monitors, eye tracker, etc. With my income it's a long journey anyway.
One day:

 

[tabascosauz]

If you knew how much I love that aircraft, oh wait it's a poem actually, a human song to the birds of prey...

The best would be to have both SCG and MCGU with a GF4 base. If only I could try them out in person. But I need to go one at a time.
I'd start with the MCGU GF4 set and the black box (I wonder does each component requires own main controller?), then STECS standard, T-rudder pedals, 2 extra monitors, eye tracker, etc. With my income it's a long journey anyway.

I love Flankers too, but unfortunately we may never get a good full fidelity one. Pretty much all the unofficial Flanker mods (and their weapons) are just propaganda mind fantasy BS. New Su-30 mod boasts about its improved flight model but the TVC is still wonky and so far I'm not seeing a whole lot substantive difference from the old Su-30 mod, it's still pretty firmly in fantasy land.

For now I'll settle for the first party MiG-29A that ED is making, announced for sometime in the near future. And Razbam's upcoming MiG-23MLA. Better than nothing.

A single Blackbox Mk 3 can take 1 stick + 1 T-rudder (as long as the stick is not MCGU twist, in which case some vkbdevcfg tomfoolery is required), or potentially 2 sticks (ie. SCGs). If you want to get the MCGU I'd definitely throw in some mounts at the beginning as well, don't delay on that.

 

[sLowEnd]

I'm not into flight sims, but I do admire some of the nice setups people have

 

[Sabbath]

I received the VPC WarBRD D base and what a difference it makes, I am using the Warthog stick with it and it is beautiful to fly with, landing the Huey and the Apache on a dime every time, and getting the Apache to hover is now a breeze with fluid control. I will get the mongoosT stick further down the line but at the moment I am waiting to take delivery of the ACE interceptor pedals, (Backorder), to replace my MAD CATZ Cessna pro rudder pedals.

The spitfire too is a breeze with the WarBRD D, "attack the convoy mission", before no matter how far away I started my strafe, the stiction on the HOG base made it really hard to keep the plane steady, and as soon as I fired the guns, the warthog base would kind bite and of pitch me off target, but now I can fly straight down the line fire the guns and the plane doesn't even twitch.

 

[droopyRO]

I'm not into flight sims, but I do admire some of the nice setups people have

A joystick with a throttle like TM T.16000M that i bought for 90Euros on a sale, is all you need. I got in to fligh sims again after a hiatus of more than 10 years. I can play singleplayer just fine with it. And i only fly helicopters like Mi-8 or Ka-50. If i wanted to get in to multiplayer, and i don't, i would need some head tracking hardware too.
All i want from DCS and 2024 in matter of sims, is to finally get the dynamic campaign on at least the Caucasus map rolling.

 

[ty_ger]

Have you heard about Boeing's recent open door policy?

 

[tabascosauz]

I received the VPC WarBRD D base and what a difference it makes, I am using the Warthog stick with it and it is beautiful to fly with, landing the Huey and the Apache on a dime every time, and getting the Apache to hover is now a breeze with fluid control. I will get the mongoosT stick further down the line but at the moment I am waiting to take delivery of the ACE interceptor pedals, (Backorder), to replace my MAD CATZ Cessna pro rudder pedals.

The spitfire too is a breeze with the WarBRD D, "attack the convoy mission", before no matter how far away I started my strafe, the stiction on the HOG base made it really hard to keep the plane steady, and as soon as I fired the guns, the warthog base would kind bite and of pitch me off target, but now I can fly straight down the line fire the guns and the plane doesn't even twitch.

The price tag of Warthog is straight criminal for what the product really is - not much more than a T16000M's gimbal, with a ridiculously heavy grip that isn't even made of a good alloy. Not a VPC user myself but I've heard great things about their pedals and the new warbrd.

 

[johnspack]

I fly Flying Circus, which is WW1 planes only. So I only need the T16000M. It has the same guts as the Warthog, just not made of steel, and 200 cheaper.
It actually works very well for flying anything from my snipe, to my hp400 bomber plane.

 

[unwind-protect]

I really need to check out some WW1.

 

[Sabbath]

The price tag of Warthog is straight criminal for what the product really is - not much more than a T16000M's gimbal, with a ridiculously heavy grip that isn't even made of a good alloy. Not a VPC user myself but I've heard great things about their pedals and the new warbrd.

I agree, I would have never realised how dire the TM Warthog stick base gimbal was if it hadn't stopped working and forced me to go with another company. My pedals should hopefully turn up on Monday, then I will set my sights on the MongoosT grip, then the Apache collective and VPC rotor plus base, then the ......., jeez this is an expensive hobby.

I can't wait to jump in the Chinook when it comes out in DCS, I see them fly over my house, as soon as I hear them I am out the door watching them fly over. I used to fly them in ARMA 2 but DCS is going to be a whole other ball game. Defies logic how they can even fly.

 

[Jetster]

 

[tabascosauz]

View attachment 330923

Also, let's get this show on the road:



@JATownes you must make the jump to VR! Didn't feel much for the Viper yet (haven't gone back to test it yet with my finalized graphics settings) but the Strike Eagle is MADE for it. all the little razbam details just come out so well and only in VR - the fingerprint smudges on the MFD reflections, the way the pilot's harness is jostled when the stick is moved left......nothing quite like it. Finally flies like a dream, the stick is so responsive and stick model almost perfectly coincides with an actual extended center stick irl; on flatscreen the strike eagle flies like a lame duck.