Intel "Panther Lake" Targets Substantial AI Performance Leap in 2025

[Wirko]

RPL is a funny arch, if you look at TPU review, in ST it's actually efficient compared to zen4, but things start to crumble once you get into MT performance. Meanwhile, AMD efficiency in MT always looked like magic. There's something that AMD is doing right that Intel cannot match at the moment.

Zen is inefficient in ST because the I/O die is apparently unable to go into very low power mode, and/or can't power down the power-hungry data buses between the chips, even at minimum load. Still the efficiency of some Zen 4 chips (7800X3D, 7900) in ST is very good if you look here for example.

 

[trparky]

The difference is that Lisa mostly talks in conferences, when Pat talks everywhere.

That speaks to the desperation that Intel has found themselves in.

They're no longer king of the hill and Pat can't stand that. Meanwhile, Lisa Su doesn't have to brag; the hardware itself speaks for AMD's prowess.

 

[Wirko]

While true, comparing tasks of a similar nature can easily be compared. Additionally, there are a number of benchmark utilities that are compiled for both platforms and many OSes.

I was just bothered by the mention of IPC. Maybe I'm just nitpicky (is that a word?) and should accept that IPC is sometimes used in its more-than-broadest sense without causing too much confusion.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I was just bothered by the mention of IPC. Maybe I'm just nitpicky (is that a word?) and should accept that IPC is sometimes used in its more-than-broadest sense without causing too much confusion.

Yup, nitpicky is a word. RISC vs CISC IPC is an undying debate. Each has it's advantages, each has it's drawbacks. Comparing the two to each other is never a perfectly straight forward task and likely never will be. However, arriving at a conclusion based on a task by task analysis can give enough information to arrive at a finding which has merit. It's never perfect, but close enough. And in reality, Apple's Mseries SOCs are very solid and well performing. Make no mistake though, they can never replace CISC out-right without becoming CISC to some degree.

That speaks to the desperation that Intel has found themselves in.

Desperation is not the right word. Intel has to adapt to the ever evolving reality that ARM is as prevalent as CISC once was.

Meanwhile, Lisa Su doesn't have to brag; the hardware itself speaks for AMD's prowess.

And here's the other thing Intel has to adapt to and yet AMD is in the same situation Vs ARM.

They're no longer king of the hill and Pat can't stand that.

That is an over-reaction, though likely in the ballpark. No one who is King of their particular hill wants to loose it..

 

[trparky]

Yup, nitpicky is a word. RISC vs CISC IPC is an undying debate. Each has it's advantages, each has it's drawbacks. Comparing the two to each other is never a perfectly straight forward task and likely never will be. However, arriving at a conclusion based on a task by task analysis can give enough information to arrive at a finding which has merit. It's never perfect, but close enough. And in reality, Apple's Mseries SOCs are very solid and well performing. Make no mistake though, they can never replace CISC out-right without becoming CISC to some degree.

But what about the fact that modern day CISC-based chips aren't really CISC under the hood? They have instruction decoders that break down the CISC instructions to RISC instructions.

And here's the other thing Intel has to adapt to and yet AMD is in the same situation Vs ARM.

AMD has ARM chips in the works, the only big name chip producer that doesn't is Intel.

 

[lexluthermiester]

But what about the fact that modern day CISC-based chips aren't really CISC under the hood? They have instruction decoders that break down the CISC instructions to RISC instructions.

Some, sure. Not nearly all. Let's not muddle the discussion.

AMD has ARM chips in the works

Saying "in the works" is a misleading statement. It's being explored at AMD R&D, but they have no actual products in the product stack.

the only big name chip producer that doesn't is Intel.

That's not true either. Intel is exploring ARM and RISCV both.

 

[qcmadness]

Yup, nitpicky is a word. RISC vs CISC IPC is an undying debate. Each has it's advantages, each has it's drawbacks. Comparing the two to each other is never a perfectly straight forward task and likely never will be. However, arriving at a conclusion based on a task by task analysis can give enough information to arrive at a finding which has merit. It's never perfect, but close enough. And in reality, Apple's Mseries SOCs are very solid and well performing. Make no mistake though, they can never replace CISC out-right without becoming CISC to some degree.


Desperation is not the right word. Intel has to adapt to the ever evolving reality that ARM is as prevalent as CISC once was.

And here's the other thing Intel has to adapt to and yet AMD is in the same situation Vs ARM.

That is an over-reaction, though likely in the ballpark. No one who is King of their particular hill wants to loose it..

For example, Zen 4c / Zen 5c is how AMD fences off ARM in server