Long AM5 POST times

[Launcestonian]

Cold boots can't possibly risk that, because you never know if the RAM has been changed.

....

Those problems I experienced with my AM5 systems were not from cold boots.

Remember Ryzen 1800X and all the issues. Give it another 2 generation and it will be perfect. Just in time for another socket and DDR6 lol

That's exactly what I've been thinking but can't help being cynical of it all.

 

[Mussels]

When I have long boot times, DRAM LED is lit on motherboard for the vast majority of that time. What's it doing if it's not training?

Failing to boot with the saved RAM settings

How would you interpret that as anything else?

Those problems I experienced with my AM5 systems were not from cold boots.

Theres only two types of boots - cold boots and warm boots.

The warm boots are a reset, cold boots are a shutdown.
If the system is powered up from a recent shutdown, it can work as a warm boot.


If your system cant recover from a warm boot/reset, then it implies it was booted into a safe mode for the memory and can't even POST normally.

 

[Launcestonian]

Theres only two types of boots - cold boots and warm boots.

The warm boots are a reset, cold boots are a shutdown.
If the system is powered up from a recent shutdown, it can work as a warm boot.


If your system cant recover from a warm boot/reset, then it implies it was booted into a safe mode for the memory and can't even POST normally.

How recent a shut down are you talking here? If I turn off the system at night, then boot it up the next day - that is definitely a cold boot, or if you leave the system for long enough so the caps can discharge completely then that is another situation of a cold boot.

The thing is Gigabyte is the only manufacturer of the 3 AM5 boards I have here, that has successfully produced a bios screen to inform the end user that their previous settings failed to boot properly & prompts the end user to reconfigure their system. MSI & Asrock on the other hand did not have this the last time I fired up those systems because of a configuration that did not work according to the particular version of bios at the time.

 

[Finnedsgang]

I had the same problem for a while then I switched to gskill memory specifically listed in the support of my mb (gigabyte gaming ax v1 rev 1) and I thought I almost “solved” with 1 min and 35 sec at every cold reboot… then I had the idea to update the bios for a Memory Management BSoD I was having during gaming (the memory checker was ok) and now I’m stuck at a black screen with the first reboot after copying bios files. Basically after the “verifying bios files” process, the computer rebooted and now it’s locked on blank screen from 30 minutes. I tried to power off but then the old bios is restored (and everything works ) but I can’t update it.
the memory context restore was disabled in the old bios Vers (f9a and now I was trying to switch to f21a … between the two there’s only another bios I skipped, just to clarify that I’m not skipping 12 bios version)

Ps the led on my mb blinks as “memory error”. I left the pc open, tomorrow I will check if everything changed or not… do you think it’s safe?

 

[OkieDan]

Failing to boot with the saved RAM settings

How would you interpret that as anything else?

I would call it training because the saved settings show up when it boots into Windows.

 

[Mussels]

I would call it training because the saved settings show up when it boots into Windows.

The training aspect is the first cold boot and goes for a set time, if that happens every boot then your setup isnt stable and its not loading them - it's using a mix of those settings and whatever recovery option that motherboard maker chose to include to get it booting.

My now-sold x370 system could run DDR4 3600, but anything above 3133 would cold-boot at 2133 - the BIOS never forgot the settings, it just booted at 2133. If you rebooted, it'd show your full speed and work at it - but then the next full shutdown and cold boot, it'd be 2133 again.

If you get repeated slow boots, you have incorrect BIOS settings for your hardware. Just because it boots one time in 3, doesn't mean it's stable enough for cold boots.

 

[Launcestonian]

The training aspect is the first cold boot and goes for a set time, if that happens every boot then your setup isnt stable and its not loading them - it's using a mix of those settings and whatever recovery option that motherboard maker chose to include to get it booting.

My now-sold x370 system could run DDR4 3600, but anything above 3133 would cold-boot at 2133 - the BIOS never forgot the settings, it just booted at 2133. If you rebooted, it'd show your full speed and work at it - but then the next full shutdown and cold boot, it'd be 2133 again.

If you get repeated slow boots, you have incorrect BIOS settings for your hardware. Just because it boots one time in 3, doesn't mean it's stable enough for cold boots.

Good call Mussels,
Slow boots after the first training session indicate some setting in bios is not set right. With bios 2.02 on my Asrock board, the training times have been reduced compared to previous bios versions & once the training is done for a set bios profile I created, it boots to the log in screen within 12 seconds consistently, all the time with a given bios profile I created. Zen 4 is maturing can be concluded from this.

 

[OkieDan]

The training aspect is the first cold boot and goes for a set time, if that happens every boot then your setup isnt stable and its not loading them - it's using a mix of those settings and whatever recovery option that motherboard maker chose to include to get it booting.

My now-sold x370 system could run DDR4 3600, but anything above 3133 would cold-boot at 2133 - the BIOS never forgot the settings, it just booted at 2133. If you rebooted, it'd show your full speed and work at it - but then the next full shutdown and cold boot, it'd be 2133 again.

If you get repeated slow boots, you have incorrect BIOS settings for your hardware. Just because it boots one time in 3, doesn't mean it's stable enough for cold boots.

Boots after changing BIOS settings are around a minute, and around 17 seconds afterwards to complete POST. The DRAM light is on for most of that time. I'd really like to pass POST and see Windows logo in 5-10 seconds on subsequent boots. The system always boots with same timings in effect so I don't think I'm getting some failure due to my settings.

Maybe me calling 17 seconds "long" misguided our discussion, but it is long compared to AM4.

 

[Finnedsgang]

In my case every reboot it’s 1 minute or more. Every reboot. My settings with 7900x and gigabyte x670 gaming x ax are everything on default and expo profile at 6000mhz for the gskill trident z neo rgb. And if I try to update the bios, the reboot fail and the computer doesn’t post for three times before loading the old settings.
I tried with 3 different pair of memory kit, and evertime is the same ….

 

[AusWolf]

In my case every reboot it’s 1 minute or more. Every reboot. My settings with 7900x and gigabyte x670 gaming x ax are everything on default and expo profile at 6000mhz for the gskill trident z neo rgb. And if I try to update the bios, the reboot fail and the computer doesn’t post for three times before loading the old settings.
I tried with 3 different pair of memory kit, and evertime is the same ….

EXPO at 6000 MHz raises boot times by a lot on my system, too, not to mention the 1.3 VSOC vs 1.1 V with EXPO off, which is about 10 W and 5-6 °C difference on the CPU idle. That's why I'm not using EXPO.
With a 7800 XT, I'm GPU limited 99% of the time, so RAM speed has little to no effect on my experience anyway. Better thermals, idle power and a much lower VSOC are more useful, in my opinion.

 

[Finnedsgang]

You are not using expo means that you use the same settings manually, or simply leave the clock to the standard ones ?

 

[AusWolf]

You are not using expo means that you use the same settings manually, or simply leave the clock to the standard ones ?

Standard 4800 MHz. It sounds incredibly slow on paper, but believe me, it makes no difference on my experience whatsoever.

 

[Finnedsgang]

I believe you, absolutely, just sound a pity to buy super fast memories and than using them at low speed, for a problem I suppose is amd related
, right ? Not motherb brand related

 

[AusWolf]

I believe you, absolutely, just sound a pity to buy super fast memories and than using them at low speed, for a problem I suppose is amd related
, right ? Not motherb brand related

I'm not sure... I had this problem on my board's factory BIOS, then it was solved around version 1.50 and my VSOC was a nice 1.2 V. Then, with the latest version, VSOC is back at 1.3 V and my boot time is long again.

On the other hand, I could just enable EXPO and forget about it. The extra 10-20 seconds on my boot time and the +5 °C on my idle temp don't bother me much. Neither option is the end of the world.

 

[ir_cow]

Standard 4800 MHz. It sounds incredibly slow on paper, but believe me, it makes no difference on my experience whatsoever.

You are only losing a good chunk of fps in some game and the 1% lows are worse if not around GPU bound.

 

[Event Horizon]

I wish I could find a middle ground between expo disabled 4800MHz and 6000MHz. Like just let me dial in 5200MHz and tighter timings but let me keep my boot times super low.

 

[AusWolf]

You are only losing a good chunk of fps in some game and the 1% lows are worse if not around GPU bound.

At 3440x1440 with max settings and a 7800 XT, pretty much everything is GPU bound. 1% lows never bothered me much, either.

But I'll run a few benchmarks later with EXPO on and off, just in case.

 

[ir_cow]

At 3440x1440 with max settings and a 7800 XT, pretty much everything is GPU bound. 1% lows never bothered me much, either.

But I'll run a few benchmarks later with EXPO on and off, just in case.

Probably no need. It will be like margin of error unless you playing on low settings.

I wish I could find a middle ground between expo disabled 4800MHz and 6000MHz. Like just let me dial in 5200MHz and tighter timings but let me keep my boot times super low.

Manually enter all your values - for everything (p-s-t timings, CPU related memory voltage. Change changes like FLCK/UCLK from auto. Turn off memory enhancements.

That will shorten up boot times quite a bit. Just a real hassle to do.

 

[Finnedsgang]

I ended up returning the Gigabyte X670 Gaming x AX as the problem of the memory was getting worst. After the latest shut down, the mb didn't boot up anymore, also resetting cmos, upgrading bios with qflash ecc.

I need a new MB for my 7900x, any suggestion on a mb that doesn't have the same problem=?

 

[ir_cow]

I ended up returning the Gigabyte X670 Gaming x AX as the problem of the memory was getting worst. After the latest shut down, the mb didn't boot up anymore, also resetting cmos, upgrading bios with qflash ecc.

I need a new MB for my 7900x, any suggestion on a mb that doesn't have the same problem=?

What memory configuration did you have?

 

[Finnedsgang]

2x16gb gskill memory 6000mhz with expo (trident z neo rgb)

 

[ir_cow]

No reason why it shouldn't have worked. Maybe you had a bad motherboard or the memory is at fault.

Its also possible things like High Memory Bandwidth, Low Latency or Context Restore was enabled. one or more of those are guarantee to give boot problems. I can't use Context Retore myself, just BSOD the computer.

 

[Finnedsgang]

I changed 4 memory kit, all same issue.
I also checked with memtest86 the kit, and no issues were found. I think the mb was faulty.
I also found that gigabyte released a v2 of the same board, maybe to fix this issue .

I didn’t checked the other option you listed, but now it doesn’t post anymore

 

[ir_cow]

I didn’t checked the other option you listed, but now it doesn’t post anymore

They won't be enabled unless you enable them. Return and get another one. Make sure to update the BIOS too.

 

[67Elco]

I ended up returning the Gigabyte X670 Gaming x AX as the problem of the memory was getting worst. After the latest shut down, the mb didn't boot up anymore, also resetting cmos, upgrading bios with qflash ecc.

I need a new MB for my 7900x, any suggestion on a mb that doesn't have the same problem=?

Seems like it's a crapshoot when it comes to memory/cpu's/motherboards. As far as selection of mb's goes my best guess would be to look to the serious memory overclockers as they tend to find out quicker what does and doesn't work. In the case of my particular motherboards I doubt they would be feasible or useful for the majority of users.

Same motherboard with different cpu and memory...