Liquid Metal Question

[kiddagoat]

All,

I am about to perform my annual maintenance on my cooling loop. I currently have TG Kryonaut on my CPU and GPU. In the almost years' time, I have seen some thermal degradation on my GPU. When I first applied the TIM, I had a difference or about 12C between core and hotspot. Now when I am playing newer games like Helldivers 2, Uncharted 4, AC Mirage, or trying to get the Chinese New Year achievement in 3d Mark, my hotspot will go up to 89-90C and my core is at 68-70C.

Other than the built-in boost, I don't OC my card. I have read other places online (Reddit, Toms Hardware, Linus Community) that some have reported a break down in TG Kryonaut after 1-2 years of use, and it accelerates when temperatures are high. Any truth to this? I have a little bit left over and I have some MX-6 on the way.

I was considering going Liquid Metal on my GPU and using the MX-6 on my CPU. With that said, I couldn't find anything that mentioned the service life of Liquid Metal other than if I am not benching and switching coolers regularly, it isn't worth it. Anyone with experience using liquid metal that can comment on the service life and their own experience with it?

This would be my first attempt at it in the 25+ years I have been building. I was going to get some of that TG Shield or other nail polish to cover the SMDs and the area surrounding the GPU die. As another precaution, I have some high temperature electrical tape to put over that. When I was looking at putting liquid metal on my old Alienware, the guide on it recommended this electrical tape for masking off the GPU and CPU dies. I bought some and never really used it.

 

[LabRat 891]

I originally had thought that LM TIM was a rather permanent solution. It is not.
(The 'low-melt' metallic pads might be; being an Indium-heavy non-liquid soft alloy)

From what I've since-learned, one of the primary elements in the eutectic alloy, preferentially alloys to Copper (and to a lesser degree, nickel). Over time, your LM TIM application is slowly turning into a rather 'bumpy and dry' amalgam of Gallium and Copper(and/or Nickel).

In the past, When I have used LiquidMetal TIMs, I use clear nail lacquer to mask around the die. (so, you're on-point there).

I still have a small quantity of Galinstan on-hand but, I've stopped using it and switched to PTM7950 for 'high performance' TIM applications. Long-term reliability has become a much more important consideration to me, in the last few years.

 

[Falkentyne]

All,

I am about to perform my annual maintenance on my cooling loop. I currently have TG Kryonaut on my CPU and GPU. In the almost years' time, I have seen some thermal degradation on my GPU. When I first applied the TIM, I had a difference or about 12C between core and hotspot. Now when I am playing newer games like Helldivers 2, Uncharted 4, AC Mirage, or trying to get the Chinese New Year achievement in 3d Mark, my hotspot will go up to 89-90C and my core is at 68-70C.

Other than the built-in boost, I don't OC my card. I have read other places online (Reddit, Toms Hardware, Linus Community) that some have reported a break down in TG Kryonaut after 1-2 years of use, and it accelerates when temperatures are high. Any truth to this? I have a little bit left over and I have some MX-6 on the way.

I was considering going Liquid Metal on my GPU and using the MX-6 on my CPU. With that said, I couldn't find anything that mentioned the service life of Liquid Metal other than if I am not benching and switching coolers regularly, it isn't worth it. Anyone with experience using liquid metal that can comment on the service life and their own experience with it?

This would be my first attempt at it in the 25+ years I have been building. I was going to get some of that TG Shield or other nail polish to cover the SMDs and the area surrounding the GPU die. As another precaution, I have some high temperature electrical tape to put over that. When I was looking at putting liquid metal on my old Alienware, the guide on it recommended this electrical tape for masking off the GPU and CPU dies. I bought some and never really used it.

what video card is this? You didn't mention the card anywhere.
If you want to use liquid metal on the GPU, tape the SMD's around the die with kapton tape (or nail polish or silicon sealant, but kapton tape is much easier to work with) and make sure you have proper thickness thermal pads or one of those thermal puttys available (Upsiren Pro, CXH1300 or whatever), and then, depending on the design of the X-bracket of the die, you will want to do a pressure mod to increase the clamping pressure of the PCB to the core. For Founder's edition cards, this is rather easy: Just take a rectangular strip of kapton tape and apply it on the PCB along the "4" sections that the square part of the x-bracket contacts the PCB, but trim it so that each section does NOT touch or intersect another section.

I took a picture of where you do this on the 3090 FE. I do not have a 4090 so I don't know if the design of the bracket is the same or not.
Then after you lay down the first strip in all four locations, then you 'stack' another 9 to 10 on top of the first, carefully, and do this for all four locations. This will create extra 'resistance' on the mounting of the x-bracket when you screw it in, without risking any damage to the card.

I did this on my 3090 FE and the liquid metal temps have been nice and stable almost a year. I probably won't even need to touch the card by the time I retire it for a 5090 AI Edition Founder's Edition.
I assume the Nvidia FE 4000 series card will have a similar X-bracket. For AIB cards that don't use x-brackets, I have no idea--you'll have to get creative with that (whether that means getting custom (stronger or slightly larger) springs from a hardware store for spring loaded cards, I don't know).

For AMD, no idea. You'll have to figure something out, but I know on Vega cards, LM is not a good idea even on epoxied interposers (no gaps).

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
System spec's say 4090

In any rate I would not use LM on a gpu
I would use mx-6 on it though.

CPU sure LM it's easy to redo.

 

[R-T-B]

I originally had thought that LM TIM was a rather permanent solution. It is not.
(The 'low-melt' metallic pads might be; being an Indium-heavy non-liquid soft alloy)

From what I've since-learned, one of the primary elements in the eutectic alloy, preferentially alloys to Copper (and to a lesser degree, nickel). Over time, your LM TIM application is slowly turning into a rather 'bumpy and dry' amalgam of Gallium and Copper(and/or Nickel).

In the past, When I have used LiquidMetal TIMs, I use clear nail lacquer to mask around the die. (so, you're on-point there).

I still have a small quantity of Galinstan on-hand but, I've stopped using it and switched to PTM7950 for 'high performance' TIM applications. Long-term reliability has become a much more important consideration to me, in the last few years.

It can be made to be rather permanent but the process is basically forming a layer of the alloy material to make it more permanent. All in all a lot of work for a questionable gain. The thermals are great though.

 

[kiddagoat]

Thanks for the thoughts and the input, I am just going to go with MX-6 on my CPU and GPU. This thread can be closed.

 

[Vya Domus]

Look into PTM7950, very well suited for laptops.

 

[delshay]

I've almost completely abandoned LM in favor of PTM7950. The only reason my CPU is still on LM is it never exceeds 37c which is useless for the PTM7950 which needs 45c+ to melt according to the PDF Docs.

EDIT: Has anyone worked out where the Hotspot is on GPU's? I think I know where it's located on my card, but it's possible it will apply to most cards. If use's want to discuss this further a separate thread is needed, because users that have multiple spare cards can check. ...I think I discovered where it is by pure accident

 

[thesmokingman]

I stopped using LM, too much of a hassle and the staining of my copper blocks is annoying. Now the LM pads /PTM/PCM, I've been wanting to try those out but haven't gotten around to it.

 

[Space Lynx]

for desktops I will never use any paste or liquid ever. thermal grizzly kryosheet is all anyone needs for life. paste is ancient history in my eyes, unless you own a laptop, in which case yeah paste is still needed.

 

[nguyen]

Thanks for the thoughts and the input, I am just going to go with MX-6 on my CPU and GPU. This thread can be closed.

Shame, LM shows the best result when aircooling (LM is more efficient at higher temp). You might see like 5-7C lower core temp and 10C lower hotspot using LM vs Thermal paste.
That and MX6 is not a good paste to use on GPU (neither was Kryonaut)

 

[GerKNG]

I was considering going Liquid Metal on my GPU and using the MX-6 on my CPU.

i'd do the exact opposite.
from my experience MX6 is fantastic on GPUs and prevents Pump Out better than any other paste i've ever used.
Liquid Metal on a GPU is barely doing anything.

 

[nguyen]

i'd do the exact opposite.
from my experience MX6 is fantastic on GPUs and prevents Pump Out better than any other paste i've ever used.
Liquid Metal on a GPU is barely doing anything.

MX6 came out like a year ago, kinda hard to judge if it prevents pump out better than other paste

 

[GerKNG]

MX6 came out like a year ago, kinda hard to judge if it prevents pump out better than other paste

All of my day one applications still have the exact same Edge to Hotspot delta. while (my) Kryonaut, Hydronaut, Aeronaut MX4, GC Extreme, SYY 157 (22 edition), Mastergel Maker, NTH-1/2 and TF4 have to be replaced 2-5 times by now on high power GPUs.

 

[al_bundy]

Liquidmetall is a nice stuff as long as u can buy it. If my tests will be successfull its possible that noone can buy liquidmetall up to 2025 in this terms we actually know.

I work together with a german ingeneeringteam to develop the next gen thermal paste based on liquidmetall which supported all conformation unless like the LM we know actually.

I can say, if u dont like to change ur setup every year, its a good decission to use liquidmetall. It still works after a couple of years without a lack of performance. But u should care to protect ur hardware. Its not that easy removable.